ATLANTA | Development Thread V

[Verge]

Originally Posted by Atlanta3000

"The Stitch" - WHY?

We live in a world of limited financial resources. To consider spending $100 - 300+ Million in the hopes of spurring development Downtown is just foolish and reckless. The Atlanta Falcons are spending $1.5 Billion on an iconic stadium Downtown and it hasn't exactly ignited development. Also, do we need several more acres of land for development when we already have so many surface parking lots and underdeveloped sites?

Does "The Stitch" look nice? - YES, but the real question should be: Does it make sense? NO.

Contrary to this opinion I believe that this is exactly the kind of infrastructure project that the city should be investing in-- Comparing this to a sports stadium is false equivalency-- parks and opportunities for development nearby are time tested ways of stimulating growth, stadiums are not. More importantly, reconnecting Downtown to Midtown with infill city fabric is just good (restorative) urbanism. In any case, I suspect most of the funding would come from private sources--

[micropundit]

A larger question concerning the proposed " Stitch" is where on the proposed project priority list does it fit? Even with metro Atlanta's dramatic growth , there is only so much social, political and ,of course, financial capital available. With the Gulch; the 400 cap plan in Buckhead; 98 14th Street and a myriad of other proposals on the table, where does this one fit in? Who makes these determinations- government; the private sector or the marketplace? Who/ how are clearly key and critical questions going forward.

The better news regarding the " Stitch" is that it would certainly move the needle on the resolution of the Peachtree-Pine Shelter.

[Atlanta3000]

Originally Posted by Verge

Contrary to this opinion I believe that this is exactly the kind of infrastructure project that the city should be investing in-- Comparing this to a sports stadium is false equivalency-- parks and opportunities for development nearby are time tested ways of stimulating growth, stadiums are not. More importantly, reconnecting Downtown to Midtown with infill city fabric is just good (restorative) urbanism. In any case, I suspect most of the funding would come from private sources--

"In any case, I suspect most of the funding would come from private sources" Honestly, I can't think of one project in Atlanta where a private source has paid for any infrastructure (roads, bridges, sewer...etc) project. If anything, private developers will be asking for property tax abatement once the city pays to cap the connector.

So if you had to prioritize the City of Atlanta's investments in order of ROI, you believe capping the connector would have the best pay back for the city? Remember the City of Atlanta has limited financial resources.

I completely disagree - I think building out the Beltline, revitalizing existing MARTA stations, building new MARTA stations, spending on affordable housing, improving city schools and/or giving grants to private corporations who create new jobs in the city would have a much higher ROI for the City and the taxpayers.

[BunkyWay]

Originally Posted by jsvh

Klyde Warren Park cost $106.7M. This is probably a fair estimate since this is bigger. Of course the $300M will not include all the new buildings built around it. That will be private development.

Boston's Big Dig would be a better comparison - it had a cost overrun of 190%. Boston and Atlanta both share a culture of corruption and collusion between city government and construction contractors.

[Verge]

Originally Posted by Atlanta3000

"In any case, I suspect most of the funding would come from private sources" Honestly, I can't think of one project in Atlanta where a private source has paid for any infrastructure (roads, bridges, sewer...etc) project. If anything, private developers will be asking for property tax abatement once the city pays to cap the connector.

So if you had to prioritize the City of Atlanta's investments in order of ROI, you believe capping the connector would have the best pay back for the city? Remember the City of Atlanta has limited financial resources.

I completely disagree - I think building out the Beltline, revitalizing existing MARTA stations, building new MARTA stations, spending on affordable housing, improving city schools and/or giving grants to private corporations who create new jobs in the city would have a much higher ROI for the City and the taxpayers.

We should, of course, agree to disagree. It should be noted that the study itself is being paid for by private sources and that the Buckhead park over GA400 is being anticipated as a public-(mostly) private project. In any case, the projects you mention are also extremely important and while resources are limited Atlanta has never been known for NOT dreaming big. The aforementioned Mercedes-Benz Stadium being a good example or the 1996 Olympic Games being a better one-- $300M-$500M is not a very steep price to pay for a project that will change the city forever. It is a long term investment with potential substantial long term consequences.

[jsvh]

For any that wants more details on "The Stitch" including the full 114 page study: http://www.atlantadowntown.com/initiatives/I-75_85_Connector_Vision/the-stitch

Originally Posted by micropundit

A larger question concerning the proposed " Stitch" is where on the proposed project priority list does it fit? Even with metro Atlanta's dramatic growth , there is only so much social, political and ,of course, financial capital available. With the Gulch; the 400 cap plan in Buckhead; 98 14th Street and a myriad of other proposals on the table, where does this one fit in? Who makes these determinations- government; the private sector or the marketplace? Who/ how are clearly key and critical questions going forward.

It will basically be decided with those with a enough power / resources / money to make it happen. It is not mutually exclusive or even diverting resources / "priority" from other projects.

It likely will and is best if it comes to fruition through the effort of many groups and people coming to together and chipping in a little to make it happen through a broad alliance of groups. Of course if one person like the leader of a large Fortune 500 company or Mayor Reed falls in love with the project they could make it happen by funding almost all of it (of course that did not work out well for Tim Lee and STP).

Regardless, expect this project to take years. I think 3 years as a best case with 5 - 10 being more likely.

[jsvh]

Originally Posted by BunkyWay

Boston's Big Dig would be a better comparison - it had a cost overrun of 190%. Boston and Atlanta both share a culture of corruption and collusion between city government and construction contractors.

Most would agree Atlanta has more in common with Dallas than Boston and this project has more in common with Klyde Warren Park (capping) than the Big Dig (tunneling below sea level).

[Atlanta3000]

Originally Posted by jsvh

Most would agree Atlanta has more in common with Dallas than Boston and this project has more in common with Klyde Warren Park (capping) than the Big Dig (tunneling below sea level).

I agree, but not from a geological or engineering perspective. Boston is land locked and is already highly developed and dense. Freeing up more land has driven significant investment from private developers. At most the significant cost of "The Stitch" will only create a nice park, but I do not see high-rise projects taking off here because the connector is capped. Just my $.02.

[GeorgiaPeanuts]

Originally Posted by Atlanta3000

I agree, but not from a geological or engineering perspective. Boston is land locked and is already highly developed and dense. Freeing up more land has driven significant investment from private developers. At most the significant cost of "The Stitch" will only create a nice park, but I do not see high-rise projects taking off here because the connector is capped. Just my $.02.

There is also the plan to rid the area of that terrible shelter. It is what is really holding that area back.

I don't see the hoopla over CoA paying this. Didn't we spend this much on the Falcon's stadium? Would it not be possible to use some of the hotel tax revenues here? Plus the City is very good about pursuing as much federal dollars as it can. Pittsburgh just got a Tiger grant for its greenspace that will cap a highway below it.

And it is being pursued in the same manner Buckhead has pursued theirs, via their respective CIDs.

[Atlanta3000]

The Post project is definitely going to have an impact on Atlanta and the Civil Rights Museum looks fantastic.

Credit ABC:

[Street Advocate]

Regarding the comment about the Midtown Hanover project, here's hoping that does mean progress. Maybe we see it break ground soon. Cannot help but feel like CODA might be getting closer to undergoing construction as well.

As for the stitch, I disagree with the sentiment that the project shouldn't be pursued. This is exactly the location that is prime for development that will eventually fill in. If we bridge the gap over the highway, it could extend the presnece of desirable urban areas by making it more walkable and create multiple decent sized urban parks in a sea of currently underutilized space.

The location is between two MARTA station almost exactly halfway between 5 Points (major business district) and Midtown stations (most walkable, residential, and urban area in the city) and walking proximity to the proposed North Ave streetcar that would link between Coca-Cola HQ, BoA, O4W, and the BeltLine.

[Street Advocate]

Originally Posted by Atlanta3000

The Post project is definitely going to have an impact on Atlanta and the Civil Rights Museum looks fantastic.

Wow, I completely forgot the Post project took up two blocks. that in addition to the project on Techwood will provide a great addition of streetlife in the area. Those living and moving to downtown I tend to think of as pioneers, as strange as that may sound. From my interactions with others, Midtown is comfortable, while Downtown can be perceived as uncomfortable due to stores closing, lack of groceries, lack of residents, and even demographics, unfortunately.

[scania]

Delete

[TarHeelJ]

Originally Posted by BunkyWay

Boston's Big Dig would be a better comparison - it had a cost overrun of 190%. Boston and Atlanta both share a culture of corruption and collusion between city government and construction contractors.

Klyde Warren Park seems like a much better comparison. It capped a freeway - very similar to the proposal to cap the connector. The Big Dig was the costliest highway project the US has ever seen and rerouted a highway underneath the city...lots of digging and extra work that capping would not involve.

Great photo of downtown showing the Post project. Thanks for posting it.

[scania]

Originally Posted by Verge

Contrary to this opinion I believe that this is exactly the kind of infrastructure project that the city should be investing in-- Comparing this to a sports stadium is false equivalency-- parks and opportunities for development nearby are time tested ways of stimulating growth, stadiums are not. More importantly, reconnecting Downtown to Midtown with infill city fabric is just good (restorative) urbanism. In any case, I suspect most of the funding would come from private sources--

Originally Posted by Street Advocate

Wow, I completely forgot the Post project took up two blocks. that in addition to the project on Techwood will provide a great addition of streetlife in the area. Those living and moving to downtown I tend to think of as pioneers, as strange as that may sound. From my interactions with others, Midtown is comfortable, while Downtown can be perceived as uncomfortable due to stores closing, lack of groceries, lack of residents, and even demographics, unfortunately.

I agree. This would honestly create a true urban environment that Atlanta doesn't have...we have Midtown, Buckhead, and even Perimeter. But the urbanism that you get when you visit most big cities (NY, SF, Chicago, etc.), we don't have it here. If Los Angeles can pull off creating/restoring a Downtown, Atlanta definitely can do the same. Also, keep in mind, that DTLA was spurred by the development of LA Live (The Staple Center).

[TarHeelJ]

Originally Posted by jsvh

Regardless, expect this project to take years. I think 3 years as a best case with 5 - 10 being more likely.

I agree with 5-10 years, but it would probably open in phases. We would at least get pieces of it along the way.

[jwbab]

On my way to work this morning I saw workers on site at JPX's Peachtree and 3rd project. They had ladders going onto the roof of the existing yellow building. Maybe demolition/site prep has finally started?

[GeorgiaPeanuts]

I also saw last night there were some people drilling the parking lot between Bulldogs and the Hanover Midtown lot. Not sure if that means anything is coming.

[TarHeelJ]

Originally Posted by GeorgiaPeanuts

I also saw last night there were some people drilling the parking lot between Bulldogs and the Hanover Midtown lot. Not sure if that means anything is coming.

There are just SO many opportunities in that comment.

[micropundit]

(New high-end Hotel)

A campaign and strategic plan being billed as the biggest thing since the opening of the Georgia World Congress Center is currently underway, according to a news release from the Georgia World Congress Center. It basically predicts that downtown's western flank will be transformed by the year 2020.Kicking off with the grand opening of Mercedes-Benz Stadium in 2017 , the so-called "2020 Vision" is, essentially, a series of transformational events with regard to Atlanta’s convention and tourism corridor. .
The 2020 Vision plan calls for an 800 to 1,100-room, high-end, high-rise convention center hotel to open next to GWCC building C, as has been previously reported. The addition of the hotel to the GWCCA campus aims to add increased space for larger meetings and a little more convenience for attendees. The plan also calls for adjacent exhibit space between buildings B and C. The new space would create a contiguous 1 million square feet of exhibit space, adding to the vast 1.4 million square feet currently available.

http://atlanta.curbed.com/2016/8/17/12517534/campaign-milestones-atlanta-tourism