Highways in Canada

[theman23]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Regarding the 401, I disagree about it being interesting east of Toronto. The only interesting bit scenery-wise is when the Canadian Shield drops down for about 5-10 minutes of the drive in the area of the Thousand Islands. As another poster said, it would be interesting if you could see Lake Ontario for some of the drive but you can't - unless you crane your neck and look in the right direction for that split second where it might be in view east of Toronto.

The 400 doesn't really get interesting scenery-wise until you get well north of Barrie.

The 417 and 416 are ultra-boring as well.

BTW, the autoroutes between Montreal and Quebec City aren't great either, especially the A-20 which is extremely boring between the two cities. The A-40 on the north shore of the St. Lawrence is a bit better scenery-wise.

But yeah, the A-20 east of Quebec City is a nice drive. As is the A-15 into the Laurentians and the A-10 east to Sherbrooke. The A-50 from Gatineau to Mirabel is nice too.

Barrie to Sudbury is 75% of the drive. I guess we'll disagree about the rest.

[Marshal]

Originally Posted by Infrequent Poster

Could this be in part to the roads in Vancouver/BC, built to a lower standard then in Quebec and Ontario?

Im not sure about Quebec, but Ontario roads seem to have wider shoulders , longer merge lengths, better designed interchanges etc. All things which one would think would lead to people driving faster aand safer. In my opinion.

I would agree for Ontario, but not Quebec. The new part of Hwy 1 is close to if not equal to Ontario's 400 series in the way you describe. It shows BC MOT knows the difference and feels the standard of our roads need to be upgraded (Vancouver is big enough now). The SFPR is not in this league; woven through a tight corridor, sold as an industrial route, and the vision was not built out completely. And this will be the problem - most new roads here will always run into tight/expensive land issues, so we will probably never have a system like Ontario cities have. The same holds for mountain routes, but on those, money can overcome terrain and Coquihalla standards will eventually come (maybe in our lifetime).

There are no HOV lanes here in Austria. Has anyone ever seen stats or a solid study that proves the effectiveness of HOV lanes. Anecdotally, though almost statistically in that my experience covers thousands of trips over a wide range of times, they waste traffic space, have not generated much HOV traffic, and contribute to excess traffic slowdown/hence idling and pollution.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Infrequent Poster

Could this be in part to the roads in Vancouver/BC, built to a lower standard then in Quebec and Ontario?

Im not sure about Quebec, but Ontario roads seem to have wider shoulders , longer merge lengths, better designed interchanges etc. All things which one would think would lead to people driving faster aand safer. In my opinion.

Yeah, even new Quebec autoroutes (like the A-85 to NB) are built "tighter" than Ontario's new or refurbished 400-series highways, which are more "ample".

[1overcosc]

Another big difference is that Ontario updates their highways more.

In Quebec, the older autoroutes still have a lot of crappy outdated designs; it seems whenever the MTQ updates the standards, it only applies to new construction.

Whereas in Ontario, older highways are upgraded to newer standards all the time.

Ontario arguably has the best designed freeways in North America.. however, I don't necessarily think this is a good thing. Our freeways are TOO safe.. as in, they teach drivers to rely on the road to keep them safe rather than to rely on their own driving skills... leading to drivers that are too cautious resulting in a lot of inefficiencies.

[Acajack]

For example, here is a brand new section of A-85 in eastern Quebec. Look at how tight it is. It's almost like an urban freeway with serious space constraints.

https://www.google.ca/maps/@47.5439164,-...zpLdbwtUqtrnU8heWoG2g!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

A few of the newly constructed town crossings in this sparsely-populated region (Témiscouata) are like this. This particular town, Dégelis, has about 3,000 people.

I am not sure that this is what Quebec is emulating (A-85 has grassy medians on some stretches outside of the towns), but I also noticed that in most places in Europe, divided highways never have grassy medians separating the lanes. Even in unpopulated areas (corn fields, woods, etc.) they have centre guardrails or barriers as opposed to medians. The shoulders often have guardrails for the entire length of the highway as well, regardless of what's at the edge of the road.

[WhipperSnapper]

It's a grassy drainage ditch. Cheaper than an underground drainage system.

They are prune their woods in Germany.

[FrAnKs]

Originally Posted by Acajack

For example, here is a brand new section of A-85 in eastern Quebec. Look at how tight it is. It's almost like an urban freeway with serious space constraints.

https://www.google.ca/maps/@47.5439164,-...zpLdbwtUqtrnU8heWoG2g!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

A few of the newly constructed town crossings in this sparsely-populated region (Témiscouata) are like this. This particular town, Dégelis, has about 3,000 people.

I am not sure that this is what Quebec is emulating (A-85 has grassy medians on some stretches outside of the towns), but I also noticed that in most places in Europe, divided highways never have grassy medians separating the lanes. Even in unpopulated areas (corn fields, woods, etc.) they have centre guardrails or barriers as opposed to medians. The shoulders often have guardrails for the entire length of the highway as well, regardless of what's at the edge of the road.

Not from me

• Video Link

[go_leafs_go02]

Ontario and BC highway standards are remarkably different.

BC cuts costs everywhere, deleting interchanges, cutting back on design speeds, everything is valued engineering. Hamilton built the LINC/Red Hill better than BC builds its highways. I will say, they do a much better job with reasonable speed limits than Ontario.

BC also neglected their highways through the 1970s, 1980s, and 1990s. Highway 1 from Langley to Chilliwack hasn't changed in the last 50 years, still 2 lanes, lots of original and dangerous interchanges, and well over capacity and congested every weekday in both directions, and even on weekends.

Ontario over does things sometimes. In London, Ontario they rebuilt the Highbury Avenue interchange 10-15 years later for hardly any traffic to keep Level of Service high.

[swimmer_spe]

Southern Ontario highways are rebuilt every few years.

Northern Ontario; we have bridges that are crumbling and frost heaved highways that the province is finally fixing. If the province let the 401 get as bad as here, there would be a revolt!

[Loco101]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

Southern Ontario highways are rebuilt every few years.

Northern Ontario; we have bridges that are crumbling and frost heaved highways that the province is finally fixing. If the province let the 401 get as bad as here, there would be a revolt!

I agree with that.

I am in Quebec right now and drove Routes 113 and 167 today. Drove from Lebel-sur-Quevillon to Dolbeau-Mistassini in Lac-St-Jean.

There weren't really any significant construction zones which was quite surprising for over 500 km of driving. Route 113 is generally quite bumpy and has pavement that is quite old. Very little traffic. Route 167 was quite smooth by Quebec standards, had somewhat more traffic but still not much. But at least there were gravel shoulders on both highways in remote areas unlike many in Northeastern Ontario (101, 144, 129 for example)

You can drive 110 km/h in a 90 zone in Quebec and never worry about a speeding ticket unlike in Ontario.

[wave46]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

Southern Ontario highways are rebuilt every few years.

Northern Ontario; we have bridges that are crumbling and frost heaved highways that the province is finally fixing. If the province let the 401 get as bad as here, there would be a revolt!

What highways are you thinking of? I've traveled highways 17, 11 and 144 often enough in recent times and none of them seem memorably bad. Certain sections, yes, but otherwise, they're in decent shape.

The 400-series highways should get the lion's share of maintenance, considering the hundreds of billions of dollars of trade they deal with, in addition to the millions of commuters.

I'll take my quiet northern highways that remain uncongested (if maybe a little rough) any day over slogging it though the 401, thanks.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by wave46

What highways are you thinking of? I've traveled highways 17, 11 and 144 often enough in recent times and none of them seem memorably bad. Certain sections, yes, but otherwise, they're in decent shape.

The 400-series highways should get the lion's share of maintenance, considering the hundreds of billions of dollars of trade they deal with, in addition to the millions of commuters.

I'll take my quiet northern highways that remain uncongested (if maybe a little rough) any day over slogging it though the 401, thanks.

Well, lets start with highway 17 4 lanes in Sudbury. Traveling at the speed limit is unsafe. There was one notable rut that even trucks would switch lanes to avoid. The bridges are deteriorating.

Would you EVER see the 401 get that bad?

Highways 17 and 11 are major east/west routes for all truck traffic going through Canada.

[Innsertnamehere]

Yes, it does get that bad. The 427 was atrocious for years before they rebuilt it a few years ago. It still is bad north of the 401. The 400 is in terrible shape south of Barrie, and again, only now is the province dropping money on it to fix it. Most of the bridge structures date from the 1950's when the highway was first built.

Highway 11 in the washago area is in very poor shape... Etc

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

Yes, it does get that bad. The 427 was atrocious for years before they rebuilt it a few years ago. It still is bad north of the 401. The 400 is in terrible shape south of Barrie, and again, only now is the province dropping money on it to fix it. Most of the bridge structures date from the 1950's when the highway was first built.

Highway 11 in the washago area is in very poor shape... Etc

If you could maintain the posted speed limit and not get air in your car, then it is not nearly that bad.

[MolsonExport]

even the 401 has got some very creaky parts.

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

Don't forget the crumbling crappy overpasses in Oshawa:

thekingshighway.ca

I am always surprised when I drive through them (there are 3 in a row)...so many overpasses have been replaced yet these linger. From the 1940s, I understand.

thekingshighway.ca

from the epic 401 thread: http://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=209059

[SignalHillHiker]

I like how those look.

[1overcosc]

Ontario has some major widening plans for the 401 in the Oshawa area; so that would be why bridge replacements and such keep being deferred.

[sonysnob]

MTO is in the procurement phase for selecting a consultant to complete the final design for the structure replacements needed in Oshawa:

Project Description
Detail Design, Contract Preparation and Design Support during tendering and construction. Generally, the work includes (but not limited to):


Repalcement of the following Hwy 401 underpass structures:
• Simcoe Street Underpass over Hwy 401 (Site 22-176) – Oshawa
• Albert Street Underpass over Hwy 401 (Site 22-177) – Oshawa
• Bennett Road Underpass over Hwy 401 (Site 21-164) – Clarington


The new underpass structures are to be designed to accommodate the future expansion of Highway 401.

Rehabilitation of the following Hwy 401 overpass structure:
• Oshawa Creek Bridge (Site 22-175/1 and 22-175/2) – Oshawa

Pavement Rehabilitation:
• Hwy 401 westbound lanes from approximately 900m west of Stevenson Rd. to Highway 35/115 for approximately 22 kms – Oshawa & Clarington

New Retaining Walls
• New North Retaining Walls and South Retaining Walls are required to construct the new Simcoe Street and Albert Street underpasses


Highway 401 Mainline Cross Culvert Rehabilitation:
• Undertake field investigations and detail design to rehabilitate three Highway 401 cross culverts

This project is classified as a Group ‘B’ project under the Ministry’s Class Environmental Assessment (EA) for Provincial Transportation Facilities.

[hipster duck]

Maybe they've already started preliminary planning, but I wonder if it would make sense for them to deck over the 401 in Oshawa between Simcoe and Ritson similar to what they did for the new 401 in Windsor.

They could then replace the 1940s-vintage RiRO exits with a single interchange and service road on the surface (sorry if this sounds confusing).

Of course, decking over the 401 costs a lot of money, but there are some big plans for that general area. They are planning on extending the Lakeshore GO line to create a new station nearby, and the area could be ripe for redevelopment.

[TownGuy]

One of those bridges has been already been demolished, 2 remain (for now).