Stadiums and Arenas of Canada part 2

[SkydivePilot]

Originally Posted by khabibulin

1995 Grey Cup in Regina was a shit show for out of towners seeking accommodations. I know, I was there watching the Baltimore Stallions win the Grey Cup!!

It was, lol! 55,000 people!

In '95, Regina had probably around half the hotel rooms than in '13. Nowadays, with lower-capacity Grey Cups, accomodations won't be a problem any longer. Yes, FIFA would be more of a challenge; however, hotels are still popping up within the Regina/Moose Jaw area. If Canada gets the '26 FIFA, the Regina area will be up to the challenge. (Saskatoon isn't really that far away either.)

[king10]

Originally Posted by esquire

^ Yeah... I'm sure a CFL franchise would do well, but nowhere near well enough to pay for the capital costs of a stadium. Either the governments build it or it doesn't happen.

Best I can imagine for private contribution is maybe a long-term loan repayable by team owners for 1/3 the cost of a middling-level $180 million stadium.

I'm not sure why an major event is needed to pay for a stadium in Halifax, though... Man and Sask got new stadiums built without having to spend even more money hosting an international sports event.

Those stadiums in man and sask were built for already established CFL teams that drew well. A halifax team would be more risky so it will be harder to find the money to build a stadium for an expansion team that could go belly up.

Hamilton wasnt going to get a stadium unless there was federal and provincial money. They were in the same boat as halifax. Except hamilton actually had a team with a solid fan base.

A major event is needed because the feds will not give money to a stadium unless it is tied to an international event. That leaves the city and province left to foot the bill which is often too steep for them, therefore no stadium.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by esquire

I'm not sure why an major event is needed to pay for a stadium in Halifax, though... Man and Sask got new stadiums built without having to spend even more money hosting an international sports event.

A private group in Halifax (which includes a bunch of regional business owners with significant cash) has announced that they intend to build a stadium without public funding. I am not sure how plausible that is. If it does happen I have a feeling that it would result in a bare-bones stadium in a suburban location, which might be a mistake.

Halifax actually has a fairly large blob of underused public recreational land in the middle of the city, the Commons. There are also universities nearby that could use a new stadium. Unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be enough coordination or political will to make something like that work. Also the people who are protective of public spaces in the city would hate the very idea of having a stadium anywhere.

[cjones2451]

Originally Posted by king10

Those stadiums in man and sask were built for already established CFL teams that drew well. A halifax team would be more risky so it will be harder to find the money to build a stadium for an expansion team that could go belly up.

Hamilton wasnt going to get a stadium unless there was federal and provincial money. They were in the same boat as halifax. Except hamilton actually had a team with a solid fan base.

A major event is needed because the feds will not give money to a stadium unless it is tied to an international event. That leaves the city and province left to foot the bill which is often too steep for them, therefore no stadium.

I wonder if there is any will to partner with the University Teams (St Marys and Dalhousie (not sure if they have a team) Huskie stadium is falling apart and other CIS teams are using the new CFL buildings. Get more confirmed dates

[Prometheus]

Originally Posted by someone123

Halifax actually has a fairly large blob of underused public recreational land in the middle of the city, the Commons. There are also universities nearby that could use a new stadium. Unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be enough coordination or political will to make something like that work.

For those of us unfamiliar with specific Halifax neighbourhoods, would you be able to kindly link to some google maps birds eye views of what you would consider as the most viable, realistic urban locations for a CFL-sized stadium in the city?

[someone123]

Originally Posted by Prometheus

For those of us unfamiliar with specific Halifax neighbourhoods, would you be able to kindly link to some google maps birds eye views of what you would consider as the most viable urban locations for a CFL-sized stadium in the city?

Somewhere around here: https://www.google.ca/maps/place/Halifax...7adf!8m2!3d44.6507917!4d-63.590021?hl=en

Some things would need to be relocated or eliminated (e.g. Wanderer Grounds), and maybe some streets would go underground. It would be more expensive than a suburban location, but probably a much nicer and more useful venue in the long run.

Large concerts are often held in this area (for crowds up to 50,000 or so) and it's walking distance to a bunch of stuff.

[Prometheus]

Originally Posted by someone123

Somewhere around here: https://www.google.ca/maps/place/Halifax...7adf!8m2!3d44.6507917!4d-63.590021?hl=en

Some things would need to be relocated or eliminated (e.g. Wanderer Grounds), and maybe some streets would go underground. It would be more expensive than a suburban location, but probably a much nicer and more useful venue in the long run.

Large concerts are often held in this area (for crowds up to 50,000 or so) and it's walking distance to a bunch of stuff.

Thanks.

[Migs]

New Mosaic Stadium with the LED lights on.


Image via AllianceEnergy

[esquire]

Originally Posted by someone123

A private group in Halifax (which includes a bunch of regional business owners with significant cash) has announced that they intend to build a stadium without public funding. I am not sure how plausible that is. If it does happen I have a feeling that it would result in a bare-bones stadium in a suburban location, which might be a mistake.

The beauty of a smallish outdoor stadium is that it can easily be expanded or upgraded as necessary. The private investors might not be able to afford an architectural showpiece, but as long as they can cobble together enough money to build a stadium that meets minimum CFL standards and isn't so primitive as to turn off potential fans, there's an argument to be made for starting there and expanding over time.

I'd imagine a somewhat stripped down version of Tim Hortons Field as something of a model... it cost $146 million. Maybe knock the seating down to 20,000 seats, eliminate some of the costlier elements like the tall western grandstand with its upper deck, and perhaps the costs could be reined in somewhat, possibly making a private venture feasible.

As cjones noted though, perhaps partnering with universities might open the door to leveraging some public sector assistance. The University of Manitoba was an integral part of getting IGF off the ground, and I'm pretty sure the U of R is involved in NMS.

[The Fisher Account]

Hmmm.. nitpicking here, but I feel like the seat color schemes could have been done better (like Commonwealth). Beauty stadium though

[WhipperSnapper]

Isn't it all one colour? And, what is wrong with one colour?

[Nathan]

Originally Posted by The Fisher Account

Hmmm.. nitpicking here, but I feel like the seat color schemes could have been done better (like Commonwealth). Beauty stadium though

There is no scheme, it's just one colour. Some of the seats still have he plastic on them.

And to answer an above post, no, the U of R had no part in funding the stadium. The Rams will be using it though, so it adds a tenant to the mix.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Nathan

There is no scheme, it's just one colour. Some of the seats still have he plastic on them.

And to answer an above post, no, the U of R had no part in funding the stadium. The Rams will be using it though, so it adds a tenant to the mix.

Just to be clear, the U of M isn't paying for IGF but it is also a tenant. The U of M did provide the land, though, so they are involved that way. I'm sure the fact that the stadium is on the university campus and houses some athletics functions strengthened the case for provincial support via long-term loans to the stadium project.

[The Fisher Account]

Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper

Isn't it all one colour? And, what is wrong with one colour?

LOL... I could have sworn the seats with plastic on them were white seats..

[Nathan]

Originally Posted by esquire

Just to be clear, the U of M isn't paying for IGF but it is also a tenant. The U of M did provide the land, though, so they are involved that way. I'm sure the fact that the stadium is on the university campus and houses some athletics functions strengthened the case for provincial support via long-term loans to the stadium project.

Yeah, I know what you're getting at, but the U of R is far less involved/less of a bargaining token than the U of M was. The stadium is on city land at the Exhibition Grounds and there's no athletics facility being built alongside (that portion of the project got some federal funding no?).

They did always mention multiple community/amateur sport uses (which would include the Rams along with the Thunder, WWCFL team, some High School games, etc). Sask lotteries/Sask Amateur sport has a long term lease of space which also includes some use of the stadium I believe. But that didn't fund the capital costs... it will help with covering the long term maintenance costs of the facility.

The only parties involved in the capital costs are the Riders, City, and Province, with reimbursement to the city for a provincial loan coming from a $12 user fee on tickets to large events, e.g. Rider games, concerts, Grey Cups, etc.

[Franco401]

Originally Posted by someone123

Halifax actually has a fairly large blob of underused public recreational land in the middle of the city, the Commons. There are also universities nearby that could use a new stadium. Unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be enough coordination or political will to make something like that work. Also the people who are protective of public spaces in the city would hate the very idea of having a stadium anywhere.

It should be noted that most stadium discussion to date in Halifax has been focused on Shannon Park in Datmouth, a now-abandoned former Canadian Forces site occupied by abandoned military housing. It was identified as the preferred site in a report in 2012 that also decided not to go forward with construction. Halifax Commons is a popular park and its location next to the Citadel could cause Heritage issues, not to mention the inevitable backlash of building a large stadium on a public park that's one of your city's icons.

Shannon Park, on the other hand, has plenty of highway access and the land is owned by the Federal Government, expediting construction when/if it happens.

[Nathan]

Originally Posted by The Fisher Account

LOL... I could have sworn the seats with plastic on them were white seats..

Good god, that wouldn't have been nit-picking at all if the plastic covered seats were actually white... It would have been absolutely horrendous.

[Berklon]

Do we have a shot from that night taken from the other end of the field?

[someone123]

Originally Posted by esquire

The beauty of a smallish outdoor stadium is that it can easily be expanded or upgraded as necessary. The private investors might not be able to afford an architectural showpiece, but as long as they can cobble together enough money to build a stadium that meets minimum CFL standards and isn't so primitive as to turn off potential fans, there's an argument to be made for starting there and expanding over time.

I agree with this. I am worried about a subpar location being chosen because the land is cheaper; that cannot be fixed with renovations.

It should be noted that most stadium discussion to date in Halifax has been focused on Shannon Park in Datmouth, a now-abandoned former Canadian Forces site occupied by abandoned military housing.

My impression is that Shannon Park is off the table because Canada Lands is proceeding with a redevelopment plan for the area that doesn't leave room for a stadium. Shannon Park was OK but far from perfect; it's across the harbour from most of the population and stuff. There's nothing nearby right now. It will probably end up with ferry access, which would have been useful.

The Commons would be complicated but, well, we're talking about an old city with complicated geography. Good greenfield sites don't exist, and in the long run the city will be more efficient if central land is adapted to serve the best possible uses for the largest number of people.

Highway access is just one of many things to consider and doesn't trump all other transportation concerns. The street network downtown has more capacity than a highway interchange will and a larger number of people downtown would be able to use alternate forms of transportation. A lot of visitors would just be able to walk back to their hotels. The peninsula is also more central to the metropolitan area, already has transit and active transportation infrastructure, and is where growth is going to be most concentrated in the future.

[The Chemist]

Originally Posted by Migs

New Mosaic Stadium with the LED lights on.


Image via AllianceEnergy

That looks really good...except for those stupid yellow lines on the turf.