NCC Ottawa River South Shore Riverfront Park Plan [Kichi Zībī Mīkan] | In Progress

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

Sounds like a lot of social engineering to me, designed to decrease the quality of life for the majority.

Seriously? The whole point of urban planning and transportation policy is to encourage behavioural changes, to ensure our cities and spaces can function as a system.

When there's hundreds of thousands or millions of people involved, the efficiency of the system is more important than the concerns of individuals. Cities are fundamentally communal spaces.

[Marshsparrow]

Can't wait to be behind the moron going 40 km/h STUCK thinking that the scenic speed is too fast!

[silvergate]

Originally Posted by Marshsparrow

Can't wait to be behind the moron going 40 km/h STUCK thinking that the scenic speed is too fast!

I mean, the rockcliffe parkways is only 1 lane. Yeah, you can get stuck behind someone but its really not that bad.
Also, the distance between Carling and Isalnd Park is decently short, and the Parkway will probably remain fairly quick for most of the distance. As others have stated, there is literally only one place with serious traffic, the Champlain bridge. Maybe the NCC should be asking what they can do about making it easier for Quebec Residents to switch from their cars

[Marshsparrow]

What are the traffic volumes between the two - can they be compared?

[Buggys]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

If a road has far more capacity than it requires, then yes, it makes sense to eliminate lanes, to reallocate the space to more efficient use.

The Parkway west of Island Park is a very underutilized road and it's not a particularly useful part of the road network.

It's actually quite useful currently, as it's a direct route between around Lincoln Fields Station and Island Park Bridge with less traffic & traffic lights.

[hwy418]

Originally Posted by Marshsparrow

Can't wait to be behind the moron going 40 km/h STUCK thinking that the scenic speed is too fast!

This happens a lot on the Rockliffe Pkwy east of the Aviation Pkwy - if someone is sightseeing at 30-40 km/h I pass them.

[lrt's friend]

Shrinking road capacities is a highly risky thing. There can be a chain reaction and I believe that this has already been mentioned. Traffic ends up on other streets where we may already congestion issues. To believe that LRT is going to reduce traffic is presumptuous as LRT does not provide door to door service for most people. The best we should expect is to limit traffic growth. I believe that it is foolish to deliberately increase the number of traffic choke points in our city to force people to use other transport methods. I have lived in this city long enough to know that making access to downtown and other central parts of the city more difficult has driven retail and employment out into the suburbs.

[MoreTrains]

Originally Posted by HighwayStar

And further.... once the lane is in, Wynne will use it as a "revenue tool" to collect money from those willing to pay to drive it alone.... A taxpayer funded road that only the wealthy can use

Ever hear of the 407? Its a whole highway thats been funded and continues to be expanded by the taxpayer.

The Wynne government is only looking at Toll/HOV lanes for the GTHA, because she could give a shit less about anything outside of that region.

[Aylmer]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

Shrinking road capacities is a highly risky thing. There can be a chain reaction and I believe that this has already been mentioned. Traffic ends up on other streets where we may already congestion issues.

I would be curious to hear about where or when this has ever occurred.

I can think of a whole list of examples where the opposite has happened (Portland, Seattle, NYC, Seoul, Paris, SF, etc.) for much more than one lane. The ever-feared "chain reaction", although seemingly self-evident to everyone everywhere, does not actually seem to have any basis in the real world in which we live.


In fact, here's an interesting graph: it's the average traffic speed of all roads leading into downtown Seoul the week the city shut down its only downtown highway which carried over 168 000 vehicles every day over 16 lanes. See if you can guess which day it closed. (hint: it wasn't Monday). If you can't, it's because traffic speeds and traffic counts on other roads hardly changed at all. In fact, after they opened it, traffic speeds increased and congestion decreased slightly.



So if 168 000 vehicles can be displaced and traffic improves, then surely to God we can shut down one single, underutilized lane in the west end of Ottawa without the city falling appart.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by Aylmer

In fact, here's an interesting graph: it's the average traffic speed of all roads leading into downtown Seoul the week the city shut down its only downtown highway which carried over 168 000 vehicles every day over 16 lanes. See if you can guess which day it closed. (hint: it wasn't Monday). If you can't, it's because traffic speeds and traffic counts on other roads hardly changed at all. In fact, after they opened it, traffic speeds increased and congestion decreased slightly.

Where did the traffic go?

[Aylmer]

Trips shifted in time (trips that could be done in off-peak were done in off-peak) and in mode (more people took transit and other modes). However, the trips did not significantly shift in route; the study of the effects of the closure noticed that although traffic volumes increased on other roads for a few months at the beginning of construction, they quickly snapped back to their pre-construction volumes and speeds.

So essentially, people voluntarily changed their departure times and travel modes, but the surrounding streets were no more trafficked than they were before. This is observed every time a road is closed or narrowed.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by Aylmer

Trips shifted in time (trips that could be done in off-peak were done in off-peak) and in mode (more people took transit and other modes). However, the trips did not significantly shift in route; the study of the effects of the closure noticed that although traffic volumes increased on other roads for a few months at the beginning of construction, they quickly snapped back to their pre-construction volumes and speeds.

So essentially, people voluntarily changed their departure times and travel modes, but the surrounding streets were no more trafficked than they were before. This is observed every time a road is closed or narrowed.

Or they avoid going in that direction entirely. I believe that is my second point. My personal experience over my lifetime with road closures and other changes that are often referred to as traffic calming, is that you simply curtail trips when those measures make travel more difficult. What used to be a rather routine trip downtown when I was growing up, is something I tend to avoid today. Too much congestion, too expensive parking, too few parking spots, too many traffic lights, too many former routes blocked off. We can choose to discourage people from using their cars, but many will choose to travel and take their business elsewhere. That is very apparent when you compare Ottawa in the 1950s and 1960s and today.

[Aylmer]

I don't doubt your experience, but it needs to be put in perspective: There are more people heading downtown year over year despite expensive parking and relatively small road capacity. Growth in other areas has been higher, so its relative importance has steadily declined since the 50s, but the fact remains that, year over year, there are more people working and shopping in the central area.

On the other hand, Hull bet on ample road access and parking and its economic activity has essentially bottomed out. I'm not drawing a causal link, but it's just to highlight that if getting somewhere easily by car were the determining factor in maintaining a downtown's vitality, Hull would be Hong Kong. But it is not. So removing one underutilised lane from the Parkway is similarly unlikely to shatter downtown Ottawa's economy.

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

Or they avoid going in that direction entirely. I believe that is my second point. My personal experience over my lifetime with road closures and other changes that are often referred to as traffic calming, is that you simply curtail trips when those measures make travel more difficult. What used to be a rather routine trip downtown when I was growing up, is something I tend to avoid today. Too much congestion, too expensive parking, too few parking spots, too many traffic lights, too many former routes blocked off. We can choose to discourage people from using their cars, but many will choose to travel and take their business elsewhere. That is very apparent when you compare Ottawa in the 1950s and 1960s and today.

It's no longer possible for downtown Ottawa to be easily accessible by car with plentiful parking available. That ship sailed decades ago as the city grew and there's zero point clinging to it.

Ottawa's not a "20 minute" city where every trip between any two points in the city is quick and traffic-free. No large city can achieve that. If you want that, move to Peterborough or Kingston.

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by MoreTrains

Ever hear of the 407? Its a whole highway thats been funded and continues to be expanded by the taxpayer.

The original 407 was funded by taxpayers, yes, but then when the Mike Harris government sold it the government got billions of dollars in the sale, effectively refunding taxpayers.. an effect made even more dramatic when you consider that unlike other highways, taxpayers no longer have to pay to maintain or police the highway anymore.

The recent 407 extension was funded by taxpayers too, but the province will collect so much toll revenue that after about 8 years, it will have cost taxpayers nothing.

So essentially... in the end, the highway was not funded by taxpayers at all, really.

That's why the whole "tolls are bad because taxpayers paid for it!" argument makes no sense...

Originally Posted by MoreTrains

The Wynne government is only looking at Toll/HOV lanes for the GTHA, because she could give a shit less about anything outside of that region.

HOV/HOT lanes make more sense in the GTA because that's where they're needed as traffic is just that damn insane there.. they don't make much sense in Ottawa.

The Wynne government has been good to Ottawa infrastructure.. note how in this year alone they gave us $1.2B for LRT and $500M for the 417. She certainly cares a lot more about this city than her predecessor (who ironically enough was an Ottawa MPP!)

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

The Wynne government has been good to Ottawa infrastructure.. note how in this year alone they gave us $1.2B for LRT and $500M for the 417. She certainly cares a lot more about this city than her predecessor (who ironically enough was an Ottawa MPP!)

Her predecessor was a piece of garbage who was afraid of his own shadow. Ottawa lost a decade of potential thanks to McGuinty.

[1overcosc]

The cynic in me says that a big part of why Wynne cares more about Ottawa than McGuinty did is because, as the Wynne era started, the Liberal Party had lost much of its support base outside the GTA, so urban Ottawa has become a much more important part of the Liberal power base than it used to be.

[rocketphish]

No decision for at least a decade on reduction of Sir John A. Macdonald Parkway lanes

Don Butler, Ottawa Citizen
Published on: August 11, 2016 | Last Updated: August 11, 2016 12:12 PM EDT

The National Capital Commission won’t decide whether to eliminate two lanes on the western section of the Sir John A. Macdonald Parkway for at least another decade, correspondence with Carleton MP Pierre Poilievre indicates.

Poilievre’s office asked the NCC and the City of Ottawa in July to provide the timeline for the potential reduction of the parkway west of Island Park Drive from four lanes to two. The NCC is considering the idea as part of its long-term plan to create a linear park along the Ottawa River.

The NCC has consistently said any reduction won’t occur until after stage two of city’s light rail transit system is operational. Among other things, the second phase will extend the system westward to Bayshore and Baseline stations and require a tunnel beneath the parkway between the future Dominion and Cleary stations.

In an Aug. 10 email, Chris Swail, the city’s director of the stage two LRT project, said the earliest construction could start on the Confederation Line West project is spring 2019.

Work on the tunnel portion will start that same year and is expected to last until December 2022, Swail said. “This will be followed by a testing and commissioning phase, with the line expected to come into revenue service by the end of 2023.”

In an email exchange last month with Poilievre’s office, Nicolas Courtemanche, an NCC external relations officer, said there was no precise timeline for a decision on the lane closures.

“However, given all the factors that must be considered as part of the decision, the timeline would be in the order of years after the completion of the stage two LRT,” he said.

In a news release, Poilievre said the city and NCC responses mean “we might not see a decision made until 2026 or even 2030.”

Poilievre, who has called on the NCC to drop the idea of eliminating two parkway lanes, congratulated the agency “for taking the parkway reduction off the table for at least a decade.

“This is good news for the thousands of commuters who use the parkway every day to get downtown from neighbourhoods like Barrhaven, Stittsville, Manotick, Bells Corners, Nepean and Kanata.”

As part of the LRT project, the NCC will have to rip up and rebuild the parkway lanes above the tunnel. It plans to reconstruct that section as a four-lane road with a five-metre median, Swail said in his email.

Any future decision to eliminate lanes would presumably involve retaining the two eastbound lanes on top of the tunnel and removing the two westbound lanes, Swail said, though he added: “This approach has not been confirmed by the NCC.”

That would defy common sense and value for taxpayers’ money, Poilievre declared.

“We’re going to have a newly repaved parkway in 2023. Would it really make sense to rip it up only a few years later?”

[email protected]
twitter.com/ButlerDon

http://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-news...t-a-decade-on-reduction-of-parkway-lanes

[rocketphish]

Most parkway users oppose lane reduction proposal, NCC survey shows

Don Butler, Ottawa Citizen
Published on: September 12, 2016 | Last Updated: September 12, 2016 6:50 PM EDT

Nearly eight in 10 regular users of the Sir John A. Macdonald Parkway oppose the idea of reducing the western portion of the road from four lanes to two as part of the National Capital Commission’s long-term vision for a nine-kilometre linear park along the Ottawa River.

The finding comes from an NCC telephone survey last spring of 1,174 Ottawa residents who live west of Island Park Drive and regularly or frequently travel on the parkway.

The survey, released Monday as part of a public consultation report on the linear park, found that 79 per cent disagree with the lane reduction, including 33 per cent who strongly disagree.

As the survey report drily observed, “It appears that those who use (the parkway) on a regular basis do not have a big appetite for change.”

However, a questionnaire included in an online consultation done by the NCC at the same time found more support for the lane reduction idea.

While half of those responding prefer the current four-lane configuration, 38.5 per cent disagree.

And respondents were evenly divided when asked if they thought a two-lane configuration would reduce pollution and noise, preserve natural habitat, promote physical activity and the use of alternate modes of transportation, and make the parkway popular with commuters and sightseers alike.

While the NCC is considering the lane reduction once the city’s western LRT is completed, CEO Mark Kristmanson stressed that any decision is far in the future.

“For the time being, it’s a major artery, a lot of people depend on it. We’re not contemplating reducing it from four to two lanes any time in the foreseeable future.”

Once the full Ottawa light rail system is developed, “maybe in five years we’ll have a different view of this and be in a position to measure it and go back to it,” he said. “But essentially we’re designing the park for a four-lane route.”

One wrinkle is that the parkway between Westboro Beach and Woodroffe Avenue will be reduced to two lanes temporarily during the construction of a buried section of the western LRT between 2018 and 2023, Kristmanson noted.

“My understanding is that the city needs two of the lanes as a staging area during the construction. So whether we like it or not, we’re going to experience two lanes for a while.”

The release of the survey results came as the NCC board approved a concept plan for a 2.4-kilometre segment of the riverfront park affected by the LRT project, between Woodroffe Avenue and Westboro Beach.

That segment will be the first to be developed, thanks to a $30-million payment the NCC is receiving from the city as part of the agreement allowing the use of parkway land for the light rail line.

That money, Kristmanson told the board, “is going to create something quite wonderful. We haven’t had $30 million to spend on a park in a few generations.”

The NCC will use $22 million of that money for a variety of projects, including:

• Construction of a new and larger building at Westboro Beach to house a restaurant and retail outlets renting four-seasons recreational equipment.
• Park amenity buildings, including washrooms, at animation nodes.
• Segregation of pedestrian and cycling pathways.
• Shoreline stabilization and plantings, and habitat restoration on parklands north of the parkway.
• Invasive species removal to improve views of the river.
• Development of park space and public art at Rochester Field.

For its part, the city will spend a further $8 million on other elements such as traffic-calming measures for the parkway, including at-grade cycling and pedestrian crossings at Rochester Field and Churchill Avenue.

[email protected]
twitter.com/ButlerDon

http://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-news...lane-reduction-proposal-ncc-survey-shows

[Aylmer]

That is the most astonishing finding since the survey which revealed that 80% of drug users wanted more drugs.