[Moncton] Retail Thread

[Feneant]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

I just don't like the idea of having a streetscape of empty retail storefronts on and near Mapleton. It would just replicate what is already happening in the central portion of Mountain Road.

It's best to have one (or in Moncton's case two if you count the Champlain Place district) major retail nodes. Harrisville would only complicate things unnecessarily.

But that would be just like Moncton, start heavily developing an area and halfway through move all the development to a new area. It's usually reserved to residential (Royal Oaks, Mountain Woods, Halls Creek, etc.) but the same can easily happen to commercial where now you have Elmwood drive and Harrisville both competing for the same dollars as Mapleton. I remember when the casino was built and we had concerts outside, people said that area would develop with restaurants, possibly more hotels, etc. and yet the same lands that was for sale 5 years ago remains for sale (Next to the petro Can, across from the zoo in the field, etc.)

[pierremoncton]

Originally Posted by Feneant

But that would be just like Moncton, start heavily developing an area and halfway through move all the development to a new area. It's usually reserved to residential (Royal Oaks, Mountain Woods, Halls Creek, etc.) but the same can easily happen to commercial where now you have Elmwood drive and Harrisville both competing for the same dollars as Mapleton. I remember when the casino was built and we had concerts outside, people said that area would develop with restaurants, possibly more hotels, etc. and yet the same lands that was for sale 5 years ago remains for sale (Next to the petro Can, across from the zoo in the field, etc.)

We can even go back to Blue Cross in 1988: The idea was that the east end of downtown would boom and fill in quickly, yet the old Irving station (now Marriott) stood empty for 15 years, and only 30 years later are we seeing a significant residential development (55 Queen). The great sea of parking behind Assomption remains, and Main St from the Marriott all the way to Dieppe City Hall feels completely suburban.

Now we're building the events centre on the other edge of downtown and expect that to be a catalyst for urbanisation.

In all instances, suitable land is ready elsewhere, but developers will opt for cheap land instead and expect the public to bare the cost of building the infrastructure to make that cheap land actually valuable.

Same story with the proposed hotel on Queensway, which - based on council's reaction to the petition last night - will go ahead.

To be clear, the events centre will have an effect, but development will dry up quickly as land value rises. As long as the city and province keep saying yes to all development, expect more of the same.

[MonctonRad]

They're starting to move dirt at the planned Rallye Motors Auto Mall on Carson Drive. It would appear that construction (on at least one of the new dealerships) is imminent.

[David_99]

Originally Posted by pierremoncton

Same story with the proposed hotel on Queensway, which - based on council's reaction to the petition last night - will go ahead.

While passing the buck to the Province to decide whether to proceed with the required infrastructure.

"How much will that cost?"
"I don't know."
"When would the safety concerns be fixed by the Province?"
"If approved, 3-5 years."

Also the land between Sunny Acres and the TCH is being rezoned for a new Industrial Park, while Caledonia sits half empty just across the highway... Go Moncton.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by pierremoncton

Same story with the proposed hotel on Queensway, which - based on council's reaction to the petition last night - will go ahead.

As per the above, here is the precise wording of the motion regarding the Holiday Inn development which was passed at last night's council meeting.

4.2 Public Hearing – Rezoning Application for 777 Mapleton Rd. (PID 001019579, 01019587,
70214630 and 70199351) – Objections received

Motion: That the amendment process for Municipal Plan By-law amendment Z-113.11 and Zoning By-law amendment Z-213.30 proceed. This will allow the rezoning of property at 777 Mapleton Road (PIDs 001019579, 01019587, 70214630, 00942185 and 70199351) from R1A (Single Unit Dwelling Zone) and R2 (Two Unit Dwelling Zone) to HC (Highway Commercial Zone) in order to accommodate a highway commercial development that includes a 120 suite Holiday Inn Express, Convenience Store and Gas Bar with a fast food drive thru restaurant, and area for two additional full service restaurants.

Further, that the rezoning shall be subject to a conditional rezoning agreement, including but not limited to the following conditions:
- 1) That a pedestrian crossing be installed on Mapleton Road on the north side of the Northwood Road intersection;
- 2) That pedestrian sidewalks /pathway be constructed into the development from Mapleton Road and Queensway Drive and throughout the development as shown on the site plan;
- 3) Prior to issuing any building permits, that the developer agrees to contribute $48,678 for 122 metres of curb, sidewalk and landscaping (excluding driveway opening) along Mapleton Road frontage, engineering and tax included. Work to be done by City when it undertakes future street improvements;
- 4) Prior to issuing any building permits, that the developer agrees to contribute $85,496 for a 177 metres of curb, sidewalk and landscaping (excluding driveway opening) along Queensway Drive frontage, engineering and tax included. Work to be done by City when it undertakes future street improvements;
- 5) The development shall be carried out in substantial conformance with the plans and drawings submitted; and
- 6) That the $1000 security deposit required for a Conditional Rezoning Agreement and by- law registry fees be paid prior to registration.

Moved by: Councillor Boudreau Seconded by: Councillor Turner
MOTION CARRIED
Nay :
Councillor Pellerin
Councillor Butler

No mention at all of concerns regarding access/egress from adjacent residential neighbourhoods or traffic concerns regarding the TCH/Mapleton interchange......

[josh_cat_eyes]

Originally Posted by pierremoncton

We can even go back to Blue Cross in 1988: The idea was that the east end of downtown would boom and fill in quickly, yet the old Irving station (now Marriott) stood empty for 15 years, and only 30 years later are we seeing a significant residential development (55 Queen). The great sea of parking behind Assomption remains, and Main St from the Marriott all the way to Dieppe City Hall feels completely suburban.

Now we're building the events centre on the other edge of downtown and expect that to be a catalyst for urbanisation.

To be fair the Chateau Moncton and CIBC aren't really that suburban, and there was supposed to be a condo building built on Harper but that guy seems to never follow through!

Not only do they expect that it will be a catalyst, it already is! The Sobeys Extra and 55 Queen are directly tied to the events centre. I'm looking forward to 5 years from now what the area will look like!

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

They're starting to move dirt at the planned Rallye Motors Auto Mall on Carson Drive. It would appear that construction (on at least one of the new dealerships) is imminent.

My guess is as good as yours, but if I was them, I'd wanna get the Chrysler dealer built before Moncton Chrysler builds their dealership, which is supposed to have the biggest Chrysler showroom in Atlantic Canada (15 cars I believe)

Originally Posted by David_99

Also the land between Sunny Acres and the TCH is being rezoned for a new Industrial Park, while Caledonia sits half empty just across the highway... Go Moncton.

Actually the land between sunny acres and the TCH was outside of the development boundary. So it only makes sense for it to be inside the boundary IMO. Regarding the hotel development, I agree the city is essentially putting the ball in the provinces court. I hope they at least put a traffic light on the corner of the development.

[Ifyoubuildit]

Originally Posted by pierremoncton

We can even go back to Blue Cross in 1988: The idea was that the east end of downtown would boom and fill in quickly, yet the old Irving station (now Marriott) stood empty for 15 years, and only 30 years later are we seeing a significant residential development (55 Queen). The great sea of parking behind Assomption remains, and Main St from the Marriott all the way to Dieppe City Hall feels completely suburban.

Now we're building the events centre on the other edge of downtown and expect that to be a catalyst for urbanisation.

In all instances, suitable land is ready elsewhere, but developers will opt for cheap land instead and expect the public to bare the cost of building the infrastructure to make that cheap land actually valuable.

Same story with the proposed hotel on Queensway, which - based on council's reaction to the petition last night - will go ahead.

To be clear, the events centre will have an effect, but development will dry up quickly as land value rises. As long as the city and province keep saying yes to all development, expect more of the same.

The other problem with re-zoning to create commercial land, when suitable commercial land already exists in the area to sustain the project in question, is that the original developer in the area is left holding very expensive land that is taxed to death making their ability to offer competitive rents impossible when someone comes along and gets council to re-zone very cheap residential land to commercial with very little demands on the new developer to contribute to area infra-structure, while the company holding commercial land has been paying premium taxes for years, which goes toward municipal and provincial upgrades. It is a broken system with very little rhyme or reason. I am all for re-zoning if there is no available land in the needed area of the proposed project so said project will not be loss. But I don't think this was the case with the 777 Mapleton project.

[kwajo]

Tristar Mercedes out of Saint John has a rendering for a new Moncton/Dieppe satellite dealership, is it one of the above-mentioned buildings?

[MonctonRad]

Thanks for the render kwajo.

No, the Mercedes dealership is joining all the other higher end dealerships out on Aviation Avenue in Dieppe.

[Mapleton_Roadie]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

As per the above, here is the precise wording of the motion regarding the Holiday Inn development which was passed at last night's council meeting.



No mention at all of concerns regarding access/egress from adjacent residential neighbourhoods or traffic concerns regarding the TCH/Mapleton interchange......

This was precisely why, even though it was a petition aimed at stopping the rezoning, the petition was the only legit and recordable objection to the hap-hazard way the City develops. It was never, for most of us a NIMBY view, it was about accountability. I have heard via friends that work at City Hall or Public Works, that Moncton doesn't want to be seen as hostile to developers. Therefore they tend to cater to the developer and then eat the negativity on the developers behalf through traffic congestion and wear and tear on roads not designed for the burdens of extra traffic (example: tanker trucks making low speed high weight turns onto an uncurbed and unsupported gravel shouldered parking lot). Roadways under-engineered for commercial traffic will quickly decay and collapse.

An example of this pandering: Currently there is a request to re-zone the commercial area across from the Coliseum on Killam (next to Millenium's intersection) into industrial. I scratch my head over that cause it seemed with the nice paved bike lanes/sidewalk, the Sports Fields, Centennial Park, the townhouse project off of Millenium, that the City was trying to spruce that part of the City up.

It was nice to see that Pellerin stand up for his riding and ask some pointed questions, but not nice to see the developer just about start rubbing his hands together when it became evident that the motion was going likely gonna pass and that he would only be accountable for work that may never come.

After knowing that the same resolve was supposed to happen with the Hampton Inn when it was approved in 2007 (9 years and no change), I am very disappointed that Council didn't press the pause button here.
Like I stated before, I was not opposed to development once infrastructure was in place, and still am not, but mind blowing when even after all the discussion, facts and actual data they still passed first reading, which essentially is the real hurdle for an applicant.

I am now praying to fabled Gods that the Province has a win-fall of $$$ (maybe the fiddlehead market will explode??) and they will jump right on that but in the mean time I think the Celtics will win the Stanley Cup first.

[Nashe]

Originally Posted by Mapleton_Roadie

This was precisely why, even though it was a petition aimed at stopping the rezoning, the petition was the only legit and recordable objection to the hap-hazard way the City develops. It was never, for most of us a NIMBY view, it was about accountability. I have heard via friends that work at City Hall or Public Works, that Moncton doesn't want to be seen as hostile to developers. Therefore they tend to cater to the developer and then eat the negativity on the developers behalf through traffic congestion and wear and tear on roads not designed for the burdens of extra traffic (example: tanker trucks making low speed high weight turns onto an uncurbed and unsupported gravel shouldered parking lot). Roadways under-engineered for commercial traffic will quickly decay and collapse.

An example of this pandering: Currently there is a request to re-zone the commercial area across from the Coliseum on Killam (next to Millenium's intersection) into industrial. I scratch my head over that cause it seemed with the nice paved bike lanes/sidewalk, the Sports Fields, Centennial Park, the townhouse project off of Millenium, that the City was trying to spruce that part of the City up.

It was nice to see that Pellerin stand up for his riding and ask some pointed questions, but not nice to see the developer just about start rubbing his hands together when it became evident that the motion was going likely gonna pass and that he would only be accountable for work that may never come.

After knowing that the same resolve was supposed to happen with the Hampton Inn when it was approved in 2007 (9 years and no change), I am very disappointed that Council didn't press the pause button here.
Like I stated before, I was not opposed to development once infrastructure was in place, and still am not, but mind blowing when even after all the discussion, facts and actual data they still passed first reading, which essentially is the real hurdle for an applicant.

I am now praying to fabled Gods that the Province has a win-fall of $$$ (maybe the fiddlehead market will explode??) and they will jump right on that but in the mean time I think the Celtics will win the Stanley Cup first.

Did you mean to cut and paste the same text into two different threads?

If so, I'll re-post mine:

Re: Killam: That area was flipped from industrial to commercial years ago in order to encourage the use to change. It didn't... only the existing tenants were interested in using it. It is the only lot in that stretch along Killam that is not light industrial, it is said, so it is simply returning to that. It will have a fence and trees planted along Killam, though.

[Mapleton_Roadie]

Yes indeed I did, I had realised that most of my previous commentary on the project was in the Mag Hill/ NW Moncton thread. Pure laziness on my behalf. Thanks though for the reply to both.

[MonctonRad]

Champlain Place News

- Reitman's has reopened in their newly renovated former location
- Tommy Hilfiger is now holding their "moving sale", as they prepare to relocate to the Mapleton Centre. Now the speculation can really begin as to what will occupy their former space......

[josh_cat_eyes]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Champlain Place News

- Reitman's has reopened in their newly renovated former location
- Tommy Hilfiger is now holding their "moving sale", as they prepare to relocate to the Mapleton Centre. Now the speculation can really begin as to what will occupy their former space......

Is Bentley still renovating? they had moved next to Tommy temporarily, likely timing it so their renos are done the same time as Tommy moves out.

[MonctonRad]

I was just looking again at the site plan for "Building I" in the Mapleton Centre (where Thai Zone is being built), and noticed that the footprint that they show for "Building H", in the right hand corner of the image seems awfully detailed.



I mean, they show the shape of the front of the building, and also show a complete layout for the parking spaces, including where the accessible parking will be located. I wonder if this means that they have a tenant lined up and that construction might be occurring in the next year or two.......

[Colouratura]

Originally Posted by josh_cat_eyes

Is Bentley still renovating? they had moved next to Tommy temporarily, likely timing it so their renos are done the same time as Tommy moves out.

I was told by workers that the Bentley store that opened is just a temporary location focusing mainly on back to school items. The full store isn't moving into it. Both will stay open until sometime after school starts and then the new location will close.

[MonctonRad]

the Brick is now open at Wheeler Park.

[FarmerTom]

Supplement King is opening a location in Dieppe in August beside Pita Pit filling the empty store front between it and gojis. https://m.facebook.com/supplementkingdieppe/

[David_99]

Originally Posted by pinkcat

New here and not sure this is the right section, but does anyone have info on the Global Gym closing suddenly on Mapleton? And any chance a new gym moves in, possibly a 2nd Fit 4 Less?

Global closed their Moncton and Riverview locations and is moving into a single, larger building at 75 Albert Street downtown.

[Scarface]

Originally Posted by David_99

Global closed their Moncton and Riverview locations and is moving into a single, larger building at 75 Albert Street downtown.

Isn't it(Global Gym) under new ownership(franchisee) as well, or was that misinformation floating around?