Calgary Public Transit II

[milomilo]

Interesting - anyone know why there is an oil pipe line under 14th St SW?

[lubicon]

It's a natural gas line and is used for distribution in that part of the City. (I'm assuming you are referring to the ATCO line).

[CrossedTheTracks]

Originally Posted by lubicon

It's a natural gas line and is used for distribution in that part of the City. (I'm assuming you are referring to the ATCO line).

The report shows a few oil pipelines in addition to the high pressure gas line.

[milomilo]

Separate to that - it show's three oil pipelines, one of which they are moving and the others staying in place so they must still be being used, which is baffling.

[milomilo]

Found the info:

http://aboutpipelinesmap.com/#/NTAuOTc3NzIzMzQ0MzQ4MTg1Oy0xMTQuMDgzNTc2MjAyMzkyNTY7MTQ=

It's a Plains Midstream Canada pipeline running from another one west of the city to the old refinery park. Says it's abandoned though, unsurprisingly which makes me wonder why they would move it.

[milomilo]

More on topic - that's an impressive rebuttal from the city and demolishes Ready to Engage's arguments, I doubt it will shut them up though. Sad that these resources have to be expended on Nimby rather than on bettering the city.

[UofC.engineer]

http://www.calgarysun.com/2016/07/13/opp...ides-to-supporters-for-city-hall-hearing

Citizens’ lobby group Ready to Engage has criticized aspects of the 22-km southwest transitway and BRT (bus rapid transit) that was approved by council in 2011 that would ferry riders from downtown to southwest Calgary.

But with the plan set to come before the city’s transportation committee next Wednesday, the lobby group is offering free shuttles to the LRT station for those who want to attend.

The irony is rich

[ByeByeBaby]

The City's report is very thorough, especially when dealing with so many painfully stupid questions. And if I were unfamiliar with the history of the group, I would have assumed Ready To Engage was pro-BRT given their wonderful demonstration that transit in the area is not sufficient and that a better way to downtown is needed. (I assumed they would all drive their Mercedes-Benzes to the meeting.)

[Porfiry]

Originally Posted by ByeByeBaby

The City's report is very thorough, especially when dealing with so many painfully stupid questions. And if I were unfamiliar with the history of the group, I would have assumed Ready To Engage was pro-BRT given their wonderful demonstration that transit in the area is not sufficient and that a better way to downtown is needed. (I assumed they would all drive their Mercedes-Benzes to the meeting.)

Calgary Transit says that it takes 26 minutes from the Southland Leisure Center to downtown, using existing bus lines and the LRT. The city says it'll take 40 minutes on the BRT.

[ByeByeBaby]

Originally Posted by Porfiry

Calgary Transit says that it takes 26 minutes from the Southland Leisure Center to downtown, using existing bus lines and the LRT. The city says it'll take 40 minutes on the BRT.

The City also says it'll take 40 minutes using existing transit.

Story checks out.

Is perhaps the problem that you've confused Southland Leisure Centre with the Southland LRT station? That may also be why Calgary Transit says it only takes 36 minutes to get to Tuscany, while KLM says it's 12 hours 30 minutes including a connection in Amsterdam.

[Porfiry]

Originally Posted by ByeByeBaby

Is perhaps the problem that you've confused Southland Leisure Centre with the Southland LRT station?

No, I am not confused. I picked City Hall as my destination. The bus ride from the Leisure Centre is only 6 minutes. The LRT from Southland station to City Hall station is 15 minutes.

Regardless, we're splitting hairs here. If the travel times are in the same ballpark, then the BRT is certainly not any "better" going to downtown.

[milomilo]

It is a good point really. I definitely think the SWBRT is a good value for money project and should be built, but it it is still only just the absolute bare minimum of what good quality transit is. At the end of the day it is still a bus, and buses — compared to trains. It isn't even proper BRT anyway as it it has sections of mixed running and the shoulder lanes on Crowchild are a bad compromise. But it's not as if we can justify running a train out so this is the best solution.

While the speed on paper won't be a huge improvement over what exists currently, it does have other large benefits - clear routefinding and obvious stations, massively improved reliability, and much better interconnectivity between the nodes in the SW.

[MalcolmTucker]

Originally Posted by Porfiry

No, I am not confused. I picked City Hall as my destination. The bus ride from the Leisure Centre is only 6 minutes. The LRT from Southland station to City Hall station is 15 minutes.

Regardless, we're splitting hairs here. If the travel times are in the same ballpark, then the BRT is certainly not any "better" going to downtown.

Remember to account for waiting time of half the frequency for each step.

But I get your point. If there was a plan to up the capacity on the south LRT line before the end of the next decade, BRT south of Heritage isn't too compelling. South of Heritage the costs are rather minimal though, with the short underpass being the only major infrastructure work.

[fusili]

Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker

Remember to account for waiting time of half the frequency for each step.

But I get your point. If there was a plan to up the capacity on the south LRT line before the end of the next decade, BRT south of Heritage isn't too compelling. South of Heritage the costs are rather minimal though, with the short underpass being the only major infrastructure work.

I see it as primarily a direct service to Currie, MRU and Rockyview hospital- all significant destinations themselves. Extending it south to Woodbine only makes sense since you are more than halfway there. Also, those SW communities are pretty far from the LRT (almost 5km in some cases). Only the far NW and the Bow Bottom Trail area have communities farther away from existing LRTs (assuming Greenline gets built).

[Cage]

Originally Posted by UofC.engineer

http://www.calgarysun.com/2016/07/13/opp...ides-to-supporters-for-city-hall-hearing

The irony is rich

Organizing shuttles and buses to downtown for the Committee hearing makes perfect sense. The Ready to Engage group does not travel to downtown very often and hence does not have an employer provided parking spot downtown nor do they use the transit system to get downtown. However the opposition group is likely on 14th and glenmore on a daily basis and facing congestion both at peak rush hour and off peak times.

[Porfiry]

Originally Posted by Cage

However the opposition group is likely on 14th and glenmore on a daily basis and facing congestion both at peak rush hour and off peak times.

Congestion at off-peak times, really? Most hours of the day it's totally fine, and the Ring Road will only make things better.

[CCF]

Originally Posted by Cage

Organizing shuttles and buses to downtown for the Committee hearing makes perfect sense. The Ready to Engage group does not travel to downtown very often and hence does not have an employer provided parking spot downtown nor do they use the transit system to get downtown. However the opposition group is likely on 14th and glenmore on a daily basis and facing congestion both at peak rush hour and off peak times.

Congestion on 14th Street will only be resolved by adding more effective and efficient transportation options i.e. SW BRT.

If their concern is traffic, then they should be embracing this project.

[sim]

Originally Posted by Cage

Organizing shuttles and buses to downtown for the Committee hearing makes perfect sense. The Ready to Engage group does not travel to downtown very often and hence does not have an employer provided parking spot downtown nor do they use the transit system to get downtown. However the opposition group is likely on 14th and glenmore on a daily basis and facing congestion both at peak rush hour and off peak times.

Agreed.

It would probably benefit the group even more so if some larger entity would organize it on the group's behalf, not requiring them to go through the motions themselves. As well, since the shuttle would be running to downtown, it could potentially pick up some other people along the way that would desire going to that general area - or somewhere popular along that general direction of travel and perhaps for some other purpose.

There might be a few people that would desire to travel there outside of the time of Committee hearing. It's also possible that all of the people desiring to listen to the committee may have other obligations and can only make it there late, or may have to leave early. The entity could organize a few shuttles that make the run; perhaps at predetermined intervals throughout the course of the day.

Unfortunately there is no such entity available to do this or any plan in place.



Apologetic for pure entitlement. Craziness.

[Cage]

Originally Posted by CCF

Congestion on 14th Street will only be resolved by adding more effective and efficient transportation options i.e. SW BRT.

If their concern is traffic, then they should be embracing this project.

The first problem with the above statement is the expectation that SWBRT will solve the 14th street congestion. At best it will partially mitigate the congestion. The degree of mitigation is what is up for debate. The City's view is that 14th street congestion will be greatly mitigated where as Ready to Engage's view is that no mitigation will occur.

The current transit travel pattern for the area is to go east to the LRT and then connect there to the final destination. A concern of Ready to Engage is that transit will alter the current east-west traffic flow to North-South traffic flow and align with SWBRT. There is precedence for this concern, when the LRT is extended or the WLRT is brought online, the transit travel pattern is altered to favour the new travel pattern. In WLRT, many residents were unaware their one bus to downtown transit solution would become one bus to LRT and then connect to downtown.

To solve the glenmore causeway congestion issue, nothing short of a complete reconstruction of 14th and glen more combined with a reconstruction of crow child and glen more will solve the problem. I would be very interested to put the numbers to the test for interchange construction vs SWBRT. Interchange reconstruction is high cost but high reward (everyone gets something as BRT/transit way could be integrated into the new design).

[PPAR]

dp