Stadiums and Arenas of Canada part 2 - Page 345

esquire · #**6881** Posted **Jul 4, 2016, 12:19 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by king10

MSG was a BILLION dollar reno

they completely ripped apart the building, created two levels when there was only one. its reno makes it one of the most expensive arenas in the world

Like I said before, if changing the seating configuration like at MSG counts as a new building, then Saddledome was built in 1996 (or thereabouts) because they did something similar back then. Ironically, the reduced size of the lower level as a result of those renos is now being cited as a reason why the Saddledome is no longer any good.

Anyway, MSG is obviously better than before the renovation - isn't that the point, after all. But it's still the same building, not exactly a radical rebuild like Soldier Field.

bkd · #**6882** Posted **Jul 4, 2016, 1:46 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by esquire

Like I said before, if changing the seating configuration like at MSG counts as a new building, then Saddledome was built in 1996 (or thereabouts) because they did something similar back then. Ironically, the reduced size of the lower level as a result of those renos is now being cited as a reason why the Saddledome is no longer any good.

Anyway, MSG is obviously better than before the renovation - isn't that the point, after all. But it's still the same building, not exactly a radical rebuild like Soldier Field.

Uh, they did a lot more to MSG than simply changing the seating configuration.

esquire · #**6883** Posted **Jul 4, 2016, 2:26 PM**

^ If you want to believe that a renovation results in a new building, be my guest.

Ron Jeremy · #**6884** Posted **Jul 4, 2016, 2:49 PM**

"Pre-brand new" (?)

king10 · #**6885** Posted **Jul 4, 2016, 4:04 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by esquire

Like I said before, if changing the seating configuration like at MSG counts as a new building, then Saddledome was built in 1996 (or thereabouts) because they did something similar back then. Ironically, the reduced size of the lower level as a result of those renos is now being cited as a reason why the Saddledome is no longer any good.

Anyway, MSG is obviously better than before the renovation - isn't that the point, after all. But it's still the same building, not exactly a radical rebuild like Soldier Field.

I don't think you understanding that they spent $1 billion to completely rebuild MSG. it wasn't just a reno, its the most expensive arena in the world.... they did to MSG what they did to soldier field...

Soldier Fields reno was 800 million... MSG cost $1 Billion and its a third of the size of Soldier Field.

in both they essentially built a new stadium/ arena inside the walls/shell of the old stadium/arena

$1 billion new arena inside shell of old arena

$800 million new stadium inside shell of old stadium

esquire · #**6886** Posted **Jul 4, 2016, 4:12 PM**

^ Soldier Field was a new facility in an old shell. MSG was a renovation, plain and simple

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madison_Square_Garden

It's a nice reno, but it's not a new building.

king10 · #**6887** Posted **Jul 4, 2016, 4:19 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by esquire

^ Soldier Field was a new facility in an old shell. MSG was a renovation, plain and simple

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madison_Square_Garden

It's a nice reno, but it's not a new building.

yes thank you for the MSG wikipedia page. like that solidifies your point. its anything but "plain and simple" or there wouldn't be a debate on the topic

a new building in an old shell is what it is. everything inside MSG is a new build. everything inside Soldier field is a new build.

by your logic soldier field isn't a new building. its a reno

i guess ill counter your argument with a soldier field wiki page ? both before and after renovation considered the same stadium in the same wiki page

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soldier_Field

esquire · #**6888** Posted **Jul 4, 2016, 4:21 PM**

^ There is a good description of the renovation on the Wikipedia page, give it a look. It all speaks to fixing up what was there as opposed to starting from scratch. It's simply not a new building.

king10 · #**6889** Posted **Jul 4, 2016, 4:23 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by esquire

^ There is a good description of the renovation on the Wikipedia page, give it a look. It all speaks to fixing up what was there as opposed to starting from scratch. It's simply not a new building.

theres a good TITLE in the soldier field wiki page listing the new stadium as a RENOVATION not a new build.

guess wikipedia disagrees with you too.

esquire · #**6890** Posted **Jul 4, 2016, 4:27 PM**

^ You can't be serious?

king10 · #**6891** Posted **Jul 4, 2016, 4:30 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by esquire

^ You can't be serious?

dead serious.

"Soldier field is a nice renovation, not a new stadium though"

you're allowed to use wikipedia as a reference to show MSG was not a new arena.

but when I show wikipedia as a reference that clearly states Soldier Field was a renovation and not a new build it is inadmissible?

you can't toe both sides of the line to further your point

esquire · #**6892** Posted **Jul 4, 2016, 4:34 PM**

^ Inadmissible... right-o, your honour. Use whatever source you want, I don't care.

For the bottom line, read the description of the MSG renovation. It speaks to piecemeal improvements vs. the demolition and rebuild of Soldier Field.

king10 · #**6893** Posted **Jul 4, 2016, 4:36 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by esquire

^ Inadmissible... right-o, your honour. Use whatever source you want, I don't care.

For the bottom line, read the description of the MSG renovation. It speaks to piecemeal improvements vs. the demolition and rebuild of Soldier Field.

as you wish. we live in a day and age where $1 billion complete tear out is "piecemeal improvement" according to wikipedia

Coldrsx · #**6894** Posted **Jul 4, 2016, 4:43 PM**

[IMG]

Edmonton City by Glen Bowe, on Flickr[/IMG]

king10 · #**6895** Posted **Jul 4, 2016, 4:45 PM**

I like the way the glass looks on Rogers. Wish there was a little more of it.

mistercorporate · #**6896** Posted **Jul 4, 2016, 4:50 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coldrsx

[IMG]

Edmonton City by Glen Bowe, on Flickr[/IMG]

Million dollar shot, nice addition to Edmonton's skyline, arena looks great.

osmo · #**6897** Posted **Jul 4, 2016, 5:17 PM**

This is a silly squabble.

MSG was a complete gut job that had to take place over many years during the off-season. MSG was nearing 40 years of age and was a dumpy arena with cracks and a odd layout. IT was renovated in the late 80's but it was a patchwork renovation that you would typically see for arenas and Stadia. Let us not forget that MSG is sitting on the most busy commuter station in America, the place was a mess.

The only thing kept in place was the outer shell and the iconic roof (that was re-done), everything else in the facility was worked on with a full new level added.

To the TV eye you just see new seats and a shiny new bowl but majority of the work was a gut job in building a new level and new internal foundations.

You can see clearly in the pictures that structural work on the concrete and the bowl levels was done, not just adding new seats and some paint:

BEFORE:

-somuchdustandsand.blogspot.com-
AFTER:

-www.sportsgrid.com-

Part of the reason for the massive gut job is that MSG Ent. had to dump as much money to get the City of its case due to pending Penn Station renovations/expansions. As well as the fact that the arena was becoming dated and no longer ahs exclusivity with Barclay's Center in Brooklyn being a competitor for events (turns out though this never materialized and Barclay's has not seen the traffic for events it anticipated). The City expects MSG to be demolished or "moved" but MSG Ent. is not having it. After $1 billion pumped in they will hold the City ransom to build them a new arena and recoup the renovation costs, a total that would likely be $2-3 billion in total. This has caused the State of NY to bark down for another solution to the City as it would be to costly to try and force MSG to move.

In the end, not calling MSG a complete rebuild, this would be like calling BC Place the same stadium after its major renovation. Consider the fact that MSG had a more through job done into re-making it versus BC Place which still has many of the same interior parts in place.

MSG and Solider Filed are both on par for complete re-builds.

** I am a big fan of the MSG roof. I wish and hope the new Ottawa arena does something similar since this new arena is supposed to be a performance hall as well.

lubicon · #**6898** Posted **Jul 4, 2016, 6:02 PM**

Just spent the long weekend in Regina and have to say that the new Mosiac Stadium is amazing. What a fantastic facility for Regina. Nice to see they are doing a soft opening this October to work out any kinks which is a great idea. I was blown away by how visible it is too. Coming in on the #1 from the west it is visible basically as soon as you can see downtown and it is very prominent. It's a great addition to the Regina skyline.

king10 · #**6899** Posted **Jul 4, 2016, 6:07 PM**

Can't wait to see Mosaic 2.0 on opening day.

Also, finally some common sense prevails on the MSG debate. Not wikipedia backed arguments.

It would be AMAZING if Ottawa got a roof similar to MSG. But something like that would probably cost a pretty penny.

elly63 · #**6900** Posted **Jul 4, 2016, 6:07 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by osmo

In the end, not calling MSG a complete rebuild, this would be like calling BC Place the same stadium after its major renovation. Consider the fact that MSG had a more through job done into re-making it versus BC Place which still has many of the same interior parts in place.

MSG and Solider Filed are both on par for complete re-builds.

** I am a big fan of the MSG roof. I wish and hope the new Ottawa arena does something similar since this new arena is supposed to be a performance hall as well.

Amen