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  #1761  
Old Posted Jun 30, 2016, 7:32 PM
Caliplanner1 Caliplanner1 is offline
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Originally Posted by WarrenC12 View Post
What do you even mean? Do you think the US gives a crap about the I5 north of Bellingham? If you've ever driven it, the clear answer is NO.
Waren12, this is not about what the U.S. is thinking here but rather about Canada's commercial needs might be should the Vancouver region seek to accommodate increase trade/tourist traffic etc. with the states (via the 99).
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  #1762  
Old Posted Jun 30, 2016, 7:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Caliplanner1 View Post
Waren12, this is not about what the U.S. is thinking here but rather about Canada's commercial needs might be should the Vancouver region seek to accommodate increase trade/tourist traffic etc. with the states (via the 99).
Not relevant to the discussion IMO. Nothing we do with one crossing is going to shape that trade. It's a tourist route. With a new crossing, some trucks may opt to use it instead of the AFB, but tolls will play a role as well.

The GMT needs to be replaced, no question.
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  #1763  
Old Posted Jun 30, 2016, 8:43 PM
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Originally Posted by cornholio View Post
PMB is a huge success for anyone who has ever used it. Its worth the $3 every time. It will pay for its self and its a great asset to the region. It was most definitely not over built.

GE bridge is also a huge success and continues to create new economic connections. It will also pay for its self and is a great asset to our region. It was also not over built at 6 lanes feeding the Maple Ridge / Pitt Meadows area with its 80k people and no port and international connections. The only problem is that its approaches were under built, and that is the fault of Translink.

Pattullo process is embarrassing. It is exactly how not to do things. What is proposed right now is inadequate and inefficient. It needs to be 6 lanes from the get go and the province should step in, though it wont this time. Again the fault of Translink and the regional board.

MT needs to be replaces, 10 lanes is absolutely reasonable. Only people who have never used can suggest 6 lanes. It will connect the regions ports, the airport, and its main industrial areas, none of which are really in Vancouver anymore. Richmond / Delta / South of Fraser is the key.

Time to scrap metro Vancouver board and make it a fully democratic on a regional scale and electable. Those on it will run on a regional platform and work with the province.
All of the tolled bridges you mentioned are losing millions of dollars each year. That's the exact opposite of "paying for itself". Maybe you forgot the sarcasm tag at the end.
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  #1764  
Old Posted Jun 30, 2016, 9:08 PM
Caliplanner1 Caliplanner1 is offline
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Not relevant to the discussion IMO. Nothing we do with one crossing is going to shape that trade. It's a tourist route. With a new crossing, some trucks may opt to use it instead of the AFB, but tolls will play a role as well.

The GMT needs to be replaced, no question.
....the bridge improvement alone won't "shape' trade per se but can help accommodate the Vancouver region's capacity to facilitate increasing road traffic (and reduce congestion) associated with growing commerce with the U.S. given that the 99 (if I'm not mistaken) links directly with U.S. Interstate 5).

Last edited by Caliplanner1; Jun 30, 2016 at 9:23 PM.
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  #1765  
Old Posted Jun 30, 2016, 9:59 PM
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PMB loses $100m a year? This conversation is over.
It's not yet $100M in annual losses, though the Province forecasts that it will lose that much this year. It is a fact, however, that the Port Mann Bridge is running at a loss and in 2015 those losses were $86M (per the quoted Vancouver Sun article, below).

I think that it is eminently reasonable to voice concern that a similar highway upgrade and bridge proposal, predicated upon traffic modelling and financial analysis undertaken by the same ministry that got the Port Mann Bridge numbers so wrong, could face use and revenue shortfalls that lead it to also lose money.

I support the tunnel replacement. Hell, I work right beside the thing and every day traffic backs up well into our business park and right by my office as people try to get onto the road that leads to the road that leads to the on-ramp that leads to the tunnel.

I don't pretend to know the price differential between an eight lane bridge and a ten lane bridge, nor do I think (any more) that a transit-only solution is viable. I've been convinced that transit has been seriously considered and integrated into the plan and it will yield substantial improvements once built.

I strenuously object to the Province having foisted a doomed transit plebiscite that is strangling our ability to keep up with existing demand and grow the network and shape regional growth, all while proceeding with the GMT replacement as a fait accompli. That dichotomy is profound and I view the failed plebiscite as a way for the Province to renege on its own 2008 Provincial Transit Plan - it was their plan! - without having to suffer too great political blow-back.

I think that if we are building an eight lane bridge - I think that any less than that would be short-sighted - and if incorporating two additional lanes represents only a modest incremental cost increase, then ten lanes may make sense. But I'm not convinced that the Province had not just decided on ten lanes - in part to avoid political blow-back from angry people in Delta and Tswwassen who could ask why they only get eight lanes while Surrey got ten for the Port Mann - and is now going to post-rationalize it.

Furthermore, the Province must address the egregious shortfall in traffic modelling that has contributed to the Port Mann Bridge losing $86M in 2015. Are they using the same methodology for the George Massey Tunnel replacement? Did they use the same outside modelling firm? Have they incorporated the higher-than-expected diversion to un-tolled bridges into the new model? Have they modeled scenarios where all bridges are tolled? Have they modeled scenarios where the significant improvement to the road system reduces transit use, which we must recall accounts for 1% of the vehicle throughput but 25% of the people using the existing tunnel, results in greater demand for road space from current users, let alone future growth? Is the answer to all those questions really still the same ten lane bridge that they originally proposed?

Here's the article from which I took the $86M loss for the PMB in 2015.

Quote:
Port Mann Bridge not driving traffic

Kelly Sinoski, Vancouver Sun 02.21.2016

METRO VANCOUVER -- Drivers using the $3.3-billion Port Mann Bridge are being offered a $10 incentive to sign on to electronic toll billing as part of a move by the Crown corporation that operates the span to reduce its overhead and save up to $750,000 per year.

The move follows the release of provincial budget numbers that show the bridge lost $86 million last year, followed by projected losses of $100 million in each of the next three years, pushing its total debt to $3.68 billion by 2018. The losses are significantly higher than what was predicted in 2012-13, when it was forecast the net loss for 2014-15 would be $28.3 million.

“We are trying to improve efficiencies in our operations, and one of the biggest costs is mailing out paper bills,” said Greg Johnson, spokesman for the Transportation Investment Corp., which operates the bridge on behalf of the B.C. government. “Some people aren’t aware we provide this option (of electronic billing).”

Only about half of the million people registered with TReO, the bridge’s tolling service, use electronic billing, Johnson said, which means TI Corp. is mailing out three million paper bills per year. The $10 incentive, which is only being offered until mid-March, is expected to save the Crown corporation between $500,000 and $750,000.

TI Corp. relies on the Port Mann tolls to pay off debt on the $3.3-billion bridge, which is required by 2050.

However, it has not yet seen the traffic volumes it expected when the bridge opened in 2014, as drivers were lured to the Pattullo Bridge linking Surrey and New Westminster or other non-tolled crossings such as the Alex Fraser or South Fraser Perimeter Road.

Last spring, TI Corp. increased tolls for passenger vehicles — cars, pickup trucks and SUVs — to $3.15 per crossing, up from $3, while considering other incentives such as reward points for Air Miles to boost traffic.

Johnson downplayed the latest losses for the bridge, saying start-up costs are always anticipated in a new business.

“Our plan has always been to post a loss in the early years,” he said. “It’s something expected when you start a toll operation. (But) the period of time for traffic to come back to the Port Mann is longer than we anticipated.”

The Port Mann Bridge is on track, Johnson insisted, and will likely see revenues exceed expenses in another 12 to 15 years. However, that timeline is far longer than what was presented by the Liberals in 2012 when they forecast that tolls would bring in more than $200 million annually and the project would break even within five years.

Since then, revenue projections have been falling, not rising. By early 2014, lower-than-expected traffic estimates prompted TI Corp. to revise its revenue estimates to $144 million for 2014, $159 million in 2015, and $174 million in 2016 — about 20 per cent less than previously anticipated.

And, according to the latest budget numbers, the revenue projections have dropped even further: landing at $122 million last year, and forecast at $128 million in 2015-16, and $137 million in 2016-17.

[...]
http://www.vancouversun.com/port+mann+bridge+driving+traffic/11736781/story.html
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Last edited by SFUVancouver; Jun 30, 2016 at 10:19 PM.
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  #1766  
Old Posted Jun 30, 2016, 10:48 PM
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Thanks for the article. Interesting how they talk about electronic billing and reducing expenses to catch up for the loss. Truly the real reason is that traffic volume projections are far below their estimates. There's no real indication that losses have anything to do with increased expenses.

Another article by Vaughn Palmer yesterday is timely:

http://vancouversun.com/opinion/columnis...d-to-ensure-premier-gets-hard-hat-moment

Key points to me:

Quote:
Other aspects of the project are more murky. The Liberals continue to tout the cost at $3.5 billion, but have provided no breakdowns. The bridge will surely be tolled, same as the Port Mann, and the government estimates that maybe 11,000 vehicles a day will divert to the Alex Fraser Bridge to avoid paying.

But remembering how badly the government underestimated toll avoidance, traffic diversions and the break-even point on the Port Mann (the latter by a dozen years), it would be nice to have more in-depth points of comparison for the Massey replacement.
The PMB is a different beast. Highway 1 is the main conduit between virtually all areas of the lower mainland, and connects Vancouver with the quickly growing Fraser Valley, and the rest of the province (and country).

Unless we are doing away with the ALR, the prospects for growth along the 99 corridor are far lower.
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  #1767  
Old Posted Jul 1, 2016, 5:24 AM
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Originally Posted by CanSpice View Post
I am absolutely serious. What makes a 10-lane GMT replacement any different from the 10-lane PMB? Why won't the GMT replacement lose $100m a year like the PMB does?
Ignorant comment. To say the least. And the subsequent related comments hereto are in that same vein as well.

To dumb this matter down... the new Champlain Bridge in Montreal, along with approaches, will apparently come in with a capex of $4.23 billion. In that vein, just another unrelated Montreal interchange replacement, known as the Turcot interchange, will come in at a capex of $3.67 billion. And that's just a friggin' "interchange"

Hell, just that Montreal interchange alone exceeds the capex of the entire new PMB/Hwy 1 improvements as well as proposed GMB/Hwy 99 upgrades.

So is the new Montreal Champlain Bridge with an est. capex of $4.23 Billion or the unrelated Montreal Turcot interchange with an est. capex of $3.67 billion gonna lose money as ya suggest akin t the new PMB? Even without toll revenue? Of course not.

Most highway/bridge infrastructure built in Canada receives capex funds outta relevant gov't general revenue. That's how the Alex Fraser Bridge and the 91 Fwy were funded, for example. Did they lose money? Even without tolls? Of course not.

The only "tolled" highway/bridge entities in Canada are the Port Mann Bridge, Golden Ears Bridge, proposed GMB, the ON-409 and some other crossings across Canada as well.

In the PMB/GMB cases, they will not receive capex from BC gov't general revenue, akin to the Alex Fraser Bridge, but from a BC crown corp. known as the Transportation Investment Corporation.

The toll charged on the PMB, for example, covers all capex, maintenance, as well as financing costs over a 40-year (IIRC) time horizon for both the new PMB as well as related Hwy 1 improvements based upon projected traffic. If you are inferring a "operating loss" thereto... well... sure... based upon that biz model but you are being either ignorant or disingenuous here.

BTW, I checked the latest year-over-year weekday traffic stats for the new PMB:

May, 2015: 108,500
May, 2016: 135,200

http://www.ticorp.ca/who-we-are/repo...affic-volumes/

Quite a jump of 26,700 per weekday or 24.6% year-over year and have posted in further detail over at the PMB thread.

PS. I personally believe that any Metro Van bridge toll should be reduced to $1.50 per crossing. Would be much more palatable to the travelling public compared to the current $3.15/crossing.
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  #1768  
Old Posted Jul 1, 2016, 9:31 AM
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1) the PMB is not losing money . . . the financial arrangement is losing money. Since when have we ever thought it sensible to measure major infrastructure this way?

2) the PMB is not a failure because the numbers do not measure up to some prediction that was put to paper as an informed guess. Besides, it is so early into the lifespan of the whole thing: when its middle aged and Metro is at 3-3.5 million people, I'm sure its users will appreciate all 10 lanes of it.

3) As for the GMB, 8 lanes is probably enough, and there has to be some simplification to those beautiful and very well designed interchanges.

4) Please, no democracy in our transoprtation planning. No public voice or input. We don't get input on our military, or health provision/infrastructure. These things are decided by expert professionals who can make good decisions even though they will always be under political control. I don't want to vote for a bunch of politicized, localized, municipal level people to mess things up. Its a C+ world and this is more true of municipal level politics than any other.
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  #1769  
Old Posted Jul 1, 2016, 3:20 PM
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Once again, the new Port Mann Bridge didn't cost 3.3 billion dollars. It was the whole Highway 1 upgrade that cost that much and correct me if I am wrong, didn't that include also some cost for SFPR (or was it Mary Hill Bypass) as part of the Gateway Program? The 10-lane bridge itself cost "only" a bit over one billion dollars and this will be the same ballpark with George Massey Bridge as well.

It is intentionally misleading to talk about the whole cost of the project and as if the number of lanes over the bridge would change that cost significantly. That difference is only drop in the grand scheme of things.

Another thing that is intentionally misleading in the discussion is the comment about how relocating utilities will cost 0.5-1 billion dollars. First of all, I find that figure very hard to believe and secondly this is again something that won't change almost at all regardless of if the bridge will have 8 or 10 lanes. Those utilities along the whole corridor need to be relocated in any case and hence bringing it up as some kind of decision factor for the bridge itself is just (intentionally) bad argumentation.

One thing I don't fully understand though is how can Port Mann Bridge be making so much in loss? I mean, if we assume that there are 100 000 crossings every single day and everyone pays at least $3 to cross, the bridge must be making way over $300 million a year. How that can then turn into a $100 million loss is mind-boggling, meaning that the operating and interest costs must be something like $400 million a year.

Now, that does not make sense to me, as it is a new bridge that should require very little active maintenance and even the toll collection is a fully(?) automated process. They claim that sending invoices is the problem here, but then go saying that only accounts for $750,000 a year. That is again only a drop in the sea and if they want to change that and have everyone on electronic billing, just increase the price for people without electronic billing and you fix the problem. Easy as that.

Where are they spending that $400 million every year? That's a HUGE number and if that number is not going to be coming down ever, I doubt that Port Mann Bridge can ever turn profit even if the bridge would see 10-lanes of traffic around the clock. Something just doesn't make sense here.
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  #1770  
Old Posted Jul 1, 2016, 5:12 PM
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I doubt that Port Mann Bridge can ever turn profit even if the bridge would see 10-lanes of traffic around the clock. Something just doesn't make sense here.
Generally speaking public transportation infrastructure spending doesn't produce DIRECT short-term public sector "profits" (due to the usually high building/maintenance costs vis-à-vis the development equity concerns/priorities of government investment thrusts). Public infrastructure development however may more so foster "profits" in the various (private sector) industries that use such government subsidized facilities........

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  #1771  
Old Posted Jul 1, 2016, 6:03 PM
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I live in Ladner and work in what I think is the same business park as SFUVancouver south of Ironwood, and so I do believe a replacement and significant expansion of the tunnel is necessary. Even the HOV lanes experience serious congestion and so the argument of more buses just doesn't cut it here. Whether it's 8 or 10 lanes depends on the price differential, though I can't imagine it would be all that high.

My only real concern with this is shifting people from transit to driving. At the moment, 26% of people going through the tunnel are doing so on transit, myself included. Now as I just mentioned, even transit is hampered from being effective here because of the congestion, though it remains much faster than driving in rush hour. However, what happens when the bridge is congestion-less and driving becomes the more effective option? Of course the status quo can't continue, but reduced transit use could be an unfortunate side effect. Hopefully tolls, transit priority improvements and force of habit make my worries moot, but it's my one true concern with the project.
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  #1772  
Old Posted Jul 1, 2016, 7:59 PM
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I would think that many people already accustomed to using public transit through the tunnel would not be immediately considering switching to a car, especially since there will be a toll over the bridge. So it wouldn't be a more cost-efficient way of commuting and only faster right across the river. One would still hit congestion on Oak Street Bridge and Knight Street Bridge and having to pay for parking in Downtown (if that's where you are heading to), so bus + Canada Line still has an time and cost advantage.

Then again, people are sometimes unpredictable and do love their cars...
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  #1773  
Old Posted Jul 1, 2016, 8:53 PM
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Originally Posted by GlassCity View Post
I live in Ladner and work in what I think is the same business park as SFUVancouver south of Ironwood, [...]
Yep, that's the same business park. We should get a beer some day after work at Fuggles and Warlock.
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  #1774  
Old Posted Jul 1, 2016, 9:03 PM
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The rational and economically sound thing to do would be to simply toll the existing tunnel immediately with the justification that the money raised will be used to build the new bridge. At the same time some money should go do improving transit alternatives for the commuters that use the tunnel so that a viable alternative is available.

That alone will reduce congestion without spending a penny on a bridge, because a certain percentage of commuters will divert, switch modes, pool or combine trips to avoid the tolls. This is exactly why Port Mann traffic is so far below predictions.

It doesn't take a very large decrease in traffic volumes to make a huge difference in congestion. In fact we may find that it reduces congestion so much that we don't need an immediate replacement. And even if we still need one, then at least we'll have far more accurate post-toll numbers that the WAG technique that's caused so much trouble for the Port Mann and Golden Ears bridges.
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  #1775  
Old Posted Jul 2, 2016, 5:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Klazu View Post
One thing I don't fully understand though is how can Port Mann Bridge be making so much in loss? I mean, if we assume that there are 100 000 crossings every single day and everyone pays at least $3 to cross, the bridge must be making way over $300 million a year. How that can then turn into a $100 million loss is mind-boggling, meaning that the operating and interest costs must be something like $400 million a year.
Klazu, with all due respect, you are incorrect as well.

Off the bat, I again wish to re-iterate that typically BC highway/bridge projects have been funded out of general revenue... and in BC's case, out of MoTi's fiscal budget (with some fed funding these days). No tolls have ever been applicable.

To wit, just a couple of previous BC highway projects mentioned here on SSP... the 8-lane Pitt River Bridge on BC-7 as well as the $1 billion, 25 km Kicking Horse Pass portion of Hwy 1, east of Golden, in eastern BC. Again, in that vein, the original Alex Fraser Bridge along with the accompanying 91 Fwy. All were/are funded from annual fiscal MoTI budgets. No tolls. No "loss".

We also have the P-3 biz model, regarding some other projects, but not applicable to the PMB/ 1 Fwy upgrades.

In any event, the new PMB was not fully upgraded to a 10-lane cross-section, IIRC, until late 2014. And, of course, the latter period also witnessed numerous non-toll paying users move over to the Pattullo Bridge. Since May, 2016 that factoid has apparently considerably reversed.

And the PMB/Hwy 1 improvements were also placed within the BC crown corp. known as Transportation Investment Corp., which requires total capex/opex recapture... IOW no "subsidized" BC MoTI general revenue funding. A new BC concept, which I don't actually agree with as it requires a $3+ one-way toll. Again, a $1.50 one-way toll would be much more palatable to the driving public IMHO.

Now let's look at the last publicly released TIC financial statement, for the new PMB/1 Fwy upgrades, for the April 1, 2014 - March 31, 2015 fiscal year:

REVENUES

Tolling and related revenues $121,222,000
Other revenues $751,000
TOTAL REVENUE $121,973,000

DEPARTMENTAL OPERATING EXPENSE

Tolling and customer engagement $16,095,000
Highway operations and maintenance $9,670,000
Technical services $2,498,000
Finance and corporate services $4,571,000
TOTAL DEPARTMENTAL OPERATING EXPENSE $32,834,000

INCOME AFTER DEPARTMENTAL OPERATING EXPENSE $89,139,000

OTHER OPERATING EXPENSE

Borrowing costs $130,573,000
Depreciation and amortization $43,602,000
Doubtful accounts $1,218,000
TOTAL OPERATING EXPENSE $175,393,000

NET LOSS FROM OPERATIONS ($86,254,000)

Write down of assets $2,615,000

NET LOSS ($88,869,000)

http://www.ticorp.ca/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/2014-2015-Annual-Service-Plan-Report1.pdf

Of course, the foregoing is under GAAP accounting practices. In this instance, I personally prefer working capital/cash-flow based accounting. In that vein, remove the GAAP "paper losses" of Depreciation and Amortization in the amount of $43,602,000 as well as Write-down of Assets in the amount of $2,615,000, which leaves an actual working capital/cash-loss in the amount of $42,652,000 during the April 1, 2014 - March 31, 2015 fiscal year. Again, a loss? Sure with BC's new unconventional financing/tolling model, which is not followed by most, if any, other provincial jurisdictions in Canada.

Again, since then, weekday PMB traffic count has increased, for example:

May, 2014: 103,700
May, 2015: 108,500
May, 2016: 135,200

Quite a jump of 26,700 per weekday or 24.6% year-over year. And right here, we are talking about TIC fiscal years involving 2 fiscal years hence compared to the above 2014-2015 financials.
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  #1776  
Old Posted Jul 2, 2016, 6:12 AM
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Klazu, with all due respect, you are incorrect as well.
Oops, I made a stupid mistake with my revenue math. ~120 000 crossings x 365 days x $3/crossing = ~$130 million, so that definitely checks out. But I am always happy to be corrected or proved wrong with facts and thanks for the detailed breakdown!

It seems that operating costs are not that high after all. Great to see the number of crossings trending up so steeply this in the last year. Do we have any idea what the maximum capacity for Port Mann Bridge is? 200 000 cars per day? 300 000?

I also wonder what the average price for a crossing is. It's seems like it is very close to the small car price which is a vast majority of the traffic. I cannot remember seeing many trucks driving across whenever I have been crossing PMB.
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  #1777  
Old Posted Jul 2, 2016, 7:37 AM
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Originally Posted by SFUVancouver View Post
Furthermore, the Province must address the egregious shortfall in traffic modelling that has contributed to the Port Mann Bridge losing $86M in 2015. Are they using the same methodology for the George Massey Tunnel replacement? Did they use the same outside modelling firm? Have they incorporated the higher-than-expected diversion to un-tolled bridges into the new model? Have they modeled scenarios where all bridges are tolled? Have they modeled scenarios where the significant improvement to the road system reduces transit use, which we must recall accounts for 1% of the vehicle throughput but 25% of the people using the existing tunnel, results in greater demand for road space from current users, let alone future growth? Is the answer to all those questions really still the same ten lane bridge that they originally proposed?
Fuck off, ya ignorant troll! I have been here on SSP for 12 years and have never even seen ya post in any of the threads that I have ever posted in during that time frame. And then, in this thread, awhile back, ya decided to troll as follows concerning me personally:

Quote:
Can we get a suspension or a ban for this guy? He bays negativity and personal attacks.
And when ya previously posted herein that I PMed ya a "threatening message" I already had enough with your idiocity. But a moderator here suggested that I don't respond. Sorry. But I have enough with your idiotic hijinks.

After your post, which in itself warranted a suspension, I clearly PMed you not to ever troll another thread that I am involved in. Period. Yet ya posted herein that I "threatened" you in another post. Pathetic.

And then, akin to a petulant child, ya went two two separate mods to have me banned. What a fuckin' creep you are.

Ya know what happened at the end of the proverbial day? The highest guy, on this site, reviewed your posts and apologized to me for your "trolling" posts.

Consider me saying this directly to your face: "Fuck Off and go troll some other thread. You are nothing more than a creep." I have zero tolerance towards your ilk, both in society in general, as well as one here.

PS. Also lose the "SFU" in your moniker. Obvious to me that ya have not even graduated high school. Me? 8 years at UBC with honours in both commerce and law. Whippy ding.
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  #1778  
Old Posted Jul 2, 2016, 11:33 AM
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Originally Posted by aberdeen5698 View Post
The rational and economically sound thing to do would be to simply toll the existing tunnel immediately with the justification that the money raised will be used to build the new bridge. At the same time some money should go do improving transit alternatives for the commuters that use the tunnel so that a viable alternative is available.

That alone will reduce congestion without spending a penny on a bridge, because a certain percentage of commuters will divert, switch modes, pool or combine trips to avoid the tolls. This is exactly why Port Mann traffic is so far below predictions.

It doesn't take a very large decrease in traffic volumes to make a huge difference in congestion. In fact we may find that it reduces congestion so much that we don't need an immediate replacement. And even if we still need one, then at least we'll have far more accurate post-toll numbers that the WAG technique that's caused so much trouble for the Port Mann and Golden Ears bridges.
You are so far off in outer space with your left wing ideas its frightening. How can you justify slapping a toll on an old decrepit tunnel that offers no new benefits for drivers. Furthermore all this talk about regional tolling needs to stop. People pay tolls to gain access to pieces of NEW infrastructure that offer advantages over non-tolled routes.
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  #1779  
Old Posted Jul 2, 2016, 3:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by libtard View Post
You are so far off in outer space with your left wing ideas its frightening.
How is it wrong to save up the money to build the bridge ahead of time instead of going into debt to build it?

I'm not suggesting that we don't build the bridge until we can completely pay for it. I'm suggesting that the inevitable toll be imposed ahead of time so that we can (a) finance at least a bit of the construction cost from savings instead of debt and (b) more importantly, find out what the real impact of tolls is going to be on traffic volumes, which could avoid overbuilding if we don't really need it.
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  #1780  
Old Posted Jul 2, 2016, 3:06 PM
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WarrenC12 WarrenC12 is online now
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Originally Posted by Stingray2004 View Post
Fuck off, ya ignorant troll! I have been here on SSP for 12 years and have never even seen ya post in any of the threads that I have ever posted in during that time frame. And then, in this thread, awhile back, ya decided to troll as follows concerning me personally:



And when ya previously posted herein that I PMed ya a "threatening message" I already had enough with your idiocity. But a moderator here suggested that I don't respond. Sorry. But I have enough with your idiotic hijinks.

After your post, which in itself warranted a suspension, I clearly PMed you not to ever troll another thread that I am involved in. Period. Yet ya posted herein that I "threatened" you in another post. Pathetic.

And then, akin to a petulant child, ya went two two separate mods to have me banned. What a fuckin' creep you are.

Ya know what happened at the end of the proverbial day? The highest guy, on this site, reviewed your posts and apologized to me for your "trolling" posts.

Consider me saying this directly to your face: "Fuck Off and go troll some other thread. You are nothing more than a creep." I have zero tolerance towards your ilk, both in society in general, as well as one here.

PS. Also lose the "SFU" in your moniker. Obvious to me that ya have not even graduated high school. Me? 8 years at UBC with honours in both commerce and law. Whippy ding.
You're quite the specimen. You constantly demean and insult others on this forum, across all threads, and then somehow play the victim? Give me a break.

SFUVancouver's post was entirely reasonable, with zero inflammatory language. And you PM'd him with your drivel? No surprise he let a moderator know. Your internet tough guy routine is tiresome.
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