YEG - Edmonton International Airport Part III

[thegx]

Originally Posted by LO 044

Man oh man that's such an Air Canada move. WestJet would never do such a thing. WestJet is such a different airline. Right.

How is that an Air Canada move? When a competitor enters the YEG market, AC cancels routes, not adds them.

[urbanroo]

Originally Posted by Jasper and one o nin

You just did

There's much more I could say, but as I realize the price point doesn't warrant Emirates or Singapore Airlines level service, I focussed on things Westjet can improve without changing their game plan. One other thing: Westjet offers free streaming of films and t.v. shows, which is great. But to get them, you have to download an app. It wasn't until everyone was already loaded onto the plane that this was announced, at which point it was too late to use the airport's free wifi. Either you had to pay $16.99 for westjet's wifi to download the app or you were out of luck. Whether this was a purposeful and cynical ploy to get some extra revenue or just an oversight, I don't know. But a lot of passengers were pretty annoyed about it. It's not a good way to earn new UK-based passengers. I like Westjet and want them to do well on these flights, so I hope they take constructive criticism.

[LO 044]

Originally Posted by thegx

How is that an Air Canada move? When a competitor enters the YEG market, AC cancels routes, not adds them.

Fair rebuttal and a great way into spinning it into how bad AC is. Yes AC cancels routes when it applies to YEG as we are small potatoes for AC overall. AC did add YYZ-LGW after WS came into the picture so there is insurmountable proof that YEG is not a top priority for AC in terms of a hub city. On the other hand, AC started/reinstated the YEG-LHR route. I didn't see BA or TS step in nor did i see anyone complain about BA or TS not stepping in. I also don't see the same amount of whining on here about UA cancelling routes.

So what you are saying is that WS is reinstating the YEG-YHM purely for the love of Edmonton or because this flight is warranted? I also expect WS to increase YEG-LGW flights next summer to be on par with YYC-LGW since WS doesn't funnel YEG passengers through YYC.

[EdmTrekker]

I am sitting at LGW waiting for the WS YEG gate to be announced....so far gong to be 3.5 hours late into YEG. Got 12 emails from WS partner TripCase yesterday afternoon and through this morning advising flight times up to 5 hours late. Not pleased as we kept changing our transport times into LGW and this has cost 5 pounds - offset by the 10 pound meal voucher. That said I wonder if the EU rules for delays goes into effect if we arrive on the "ground" after 3 hours. Mabey that will be part of the new CETA if and when implemented.

http://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/travel/passenger-rights/air/index_en.htm

[LO 044]

^EdmTrekker i would Google the European rules for compensation. I can't remember for sure but perhaps it was the flyertalk forum where there was a big hubbub about all the WS delays into Gatwick and that European compensation rules do take effect. Some were also mentioning that an airline is obliged to provide you with this info and others were saying that an airline is not obliged to tell you anything and some were even saying that airlines purposely are not telling customers these European rules as the compensation for passengers is steep from an airline perspective.

In essence, WS is providing charter flights at this point because their international network is so limited and providing you with an alternative flight is not really an option unfortunately. Let us all know how the story ends... ...and then provided it to the Journal/Sun and see if it gets picked up lol.

[Jasper and one o nin]

Originally Posted by urbanroo

There's much more I could say, but as I realize the price point doesn't warrant Emirates or Singapore Airlines level service, I focussed on things Westjet can improve without changing their game plan. One other thing: Westjet offers free streaming of films and t.v. shows, which is great. But to get them, you have to download an app. It wasn't until everyone was already loaded onto the plane that this was announced, at which point it was too late to use the airport's free wifi. Either you had to pay $16.99 for westjet's wifi to download the app or you were out of luck. Whether this was a purposeful and cynical ploy to get some extra revenue or just an oversight, I don't know. But a lot of passengers were pretty annoyed about it. It's not a good way to earn new UK-based passengers. I like Westjet and want them to do well on these flights, so I hope they take constructive criticism.

Yeah, Westjet seems to be forgetting their mission and core values. I would be ticked if I felt I was not explained about the app. Westjet's culture and approach is the cornerstone what sets them apart from AC. They can't start losing sight of that.

[LO 044]

OK here's a link to the WS discussion.
http://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=607111&start=50

From Post 18960259

I was on one of the WestJet cancelled flights from LGW on May 26. I was supposed to fly back to Vancouver but they cancelled the flight because the aircraft broke down the day before and they could not get the part to fix it in a timely manner. They sent a rescue 767 flight for us and we were routed through Toronto. The good news out of it all is that I was compensated because of EU legislation and I received a cheque for $800+. That basically paid for my entire round-trip flight. Although I was very disappointed with the WestJet service, I still want to see them succeed because they are fueling competition and keeping airfares low between Europe and Canada. I feel sorry for them having to fork out that much compensation. Although I wasn't a satisfied customer, I didn't feel that they deserved to compensate me my entire flight. They must be losing a fortune on this endeavour. Anyway, I wrote a Trip Report about the inaugural flight, which I was on from Vancouver on May 6.

Check it out here:
http://www.jetbc.com/2016/06/westjet-lo ... eview.html

[Jasper and one o nin]

delete

[Johnny Aussie]

Originally Posted by LO 044

So what you are saying is that WS is reinstating the YEG-YHM purely for the love of Edmonton or because this flight is warranted?

WS is no different than any other profit-making venture. If necessary, and if they have the ability to do so, they will utilise resources in the short-term to have a long-term benefit (read as squeeze out a competitor). Obviously this move is a direct target at NewLeaf. Despite what Westjet's press release says... Something like "been looking at this new route for awhile." It was only recently dropped so that press release was pretty lame. However, Westjet has relatively deep pockets to fight off a new entrant.
This "new route" is only going to fly for 5 1/2 weeks during the rest of the peak summer. Coincidence the route is scheduled to begin the same day as NewLeaf's launch? Coincidence the service is scheduled to end on Labour Day? The day after Labour Day, leisure traffic plummets.
Also, they are not putting any seats on YXJ on YKA (a recently dropped route) or adding any seats to YYJ or YXX (a recently capacity cut route). Westjet probably doesn't see the need to compete on these routes if they don't see an economic benefit in doing so. Perhaps they think NewLeaf will just bleed red ink on these routes without doing anything. Perhaps by jumping in to YEG-YHM they think they can steal enough pax away from NewLeaf to make their venture unprofitable. Then after Labour Day just let NewLeaf scrounge up any leisure traffic in the autumn and winter.
So what's the difference between Westjet's and Air Canada's approach in this case? Either way it's not due to any love for anyone except the shareholders.

And I'm still amazed not a peep from YEG....

[casper]

Originally Posted by urbanroo

Flew YEG-LGW on Westjet the other week. Flight was basically on time, though they strangely loaded passengers way too early and then we sat on the tarmac for half an hour waiting for our scheduled departure time. Food (pre-ordered for $14.99) was a joke and they really need to improve if they are going to charge for it. Then they woke everyone up a full 2.5 hours before landing to serve the second round of soft drinks. There's no need for that and it's just stupid--they were done in 20 minutes and the dozens of other TATL flights I've taken always fit the last service in a mere hour before landing, thus allowing people a longer sleep. All in all, Westjet needs to improve and get its act together on these flights. But considering I only paid $300 per ticket one way, I can't complain too much.

As a comparison Air Canada on longer domestic routes will sell the business class hot entre plus a snack in the economy cabin as part of the buy-on-board. Quality is limited and selection is based on what is left over form the business class cabin after they make their selection. It is pretty much always good stuff. The cost is $11 for a hot breakfast and $15 for dinner/lunch.

What is served on WestJet as the $15 dollar meal looks more like a $2 Walmart store brand TV dinner.

I think they either need to provide a crappy complementary meal like everyone else on the route or offer a buy-on-board that is the same quality as Air Canada.

[LO 044]

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

WS is no different than any other profit-making venture. If necessary, and if they have the ability to do so, they will utilise resources in the short-term to have a long-term benefit (read as squeeze out a competitor). Obviously this move is a direct target at NewLeaf. Despite what Westjet's press release says... Something like "been looking at this new route for awhile." It was only recently dropped so that press release was pretty lame. However, Westjet has relatively deep pockets to fight off a new entrant.
This "new route" is only going to fly for 5 1/2 weeks during the rest of the peak summer. Coincidence the route is scheduled to begin the same day as NewLeaf's launch? Coincidence the service is scheduled to end on Labour Day? The day after Labour Day, leisure traffic plummets.
Also, they are not putting any seats on YXJ on YKA (a recently dropped route) or adding any seats to YYJ or YXX (a recently capacity cut route). Westjet probably doesn't see the need to compete on these routes if they don't see an economic benefit in doing so. Perhaps they think NewLeaf will just bleed red ink on these routes without doing anything. Perhaps by jumping in to YEG-YHM they think they can steal enough pax away from NewLeaf to make their venture unprofitable. Then after Labour Day just let NewLeaf scrounge up any leisure traffic in the autumn and winter.
So what's the difference between Westjet's and Air Canada's approach in this case? Either way it's not due to any love for anyone except the shareholders.

And I'm still amazed not a peep from YEG....

My comment was pure sarcasm. There are a lot of WestJet fanboys that believe WestJet can do no wrong.

[Johnny Aussie]

Originally Posted by LO 044

My comment was pure sarcasm. There are a lot of WestJet fanboys that believe WestJet can do no wrong.

I know yours was. I was reinforcing your logic.

[Cage]

Originally Posted by hoboman27

Maybe afraid of angering WestJet? (like they did with Icelandair vs AC), or that it was their plan to use NewLeaf as a tool to persuade WestJet operate those services, if that's the case then no point in doing a press release on NewLeaf.

If your goal is to be a primary market and hub airport, you don't overly promote a service that exists purely to secondary markets. YEG is Snow White - together with her little Brother Jon Snow of YWG - represents the only decent market for New Leaf. the other 10 markets are the dwarfs.

Only Hamilton made a big do of the second new leaf announcement,

Originally Posted by urbanroo

(1) Flew YEG-LGW on Westjet the other week. Flight was basically on time, though they strangely loaded passengers way too early and then we sat on the tarmac for half an hour waiting for our scheduled departure time.
(2) Food (pre-ordered for $14.99) was a joke and they really need to improve if they are going to charge for it.
(3) Then they woke everyone up a full 2.5 hours before landing to serve the second round of soft drinks. There's no need for that and it's just stupid--they were done in 20 minutes and the dozens of other TATL flights I've taken always fit the last service in a mere hour before landing, thus allowing people a longer sleep.

(1) A 250+ seat 763 would start boarding at about the 45 minute mark and expect the last 20 minutes to have everyone onboard awaiting for the final bags and numbers/paperwork to be finalized.

(2) The food options appear to be very conservative (e.g. easy to cook and hard to screw up) from a delivery perspective. The competition does both a main meal and a breakfast on North American origin TransAt flights.

(3) Again, waking everyone up real early is a sign of their conservatism in setting the service standards. They need to get to everyone with drink carts and food carts. Their 763s have 60 more people than standard aircraft due to lack of first class cabin. Also, WS has no experience with a quick breakfast meal service, and more importantly no experience with irate pax when the lights come on too early. Give it time and the service will be more efficient and better timed.

Originally Posted by urbanroo

T.....
(4) One other thing: Westjet offers free streaming of films and t.v. shows, which is great. But to get them, you have to download an app. It wasn't until everyone was already loaded onto the plane that this was announced, at which point it was too late to use the airport's free wifi.
(5) Either you had to pay $16.99 for westjet's wifi to download the app or you were out of luck. Whether this was a purposeful and cynical ploy to get some extra revenue or just an oversight, I don't know. But a lot of passengers were pretty annoyed about it.

(4) Westjet's folksy gate announcements and their constant use of broadcast system has been curtailed by many Airline Operating Committees (the committee of airline managers who set standard operating procedures for the airport). The standard for app based IFE is to send out an email 24-48 hours before departure, AC and UA both do this. I believe WS did sned out an email with WIFI app download instructions together with the checkin instructions for my October 2015 flight.

(5) If you have a Windows based machine, the DMCA app can be downloaded from the server. The problem with apple and android devices lies in their requirements to link up to a central app store and the machines will not accept downloads from outside servers. That said the same mechanism protects against viruses and other malicious content.

[EdmTrekker]

Good ol Westjet will be coughing up a shitload of delay comps from our 4 hr plus delay yesterday LGW into YEG. EU rules apply - and the Brits on board were furious. We have already submitted and were advised it will be paid: 600 Euros each.

My —: (1) emails from WS and their little partner Trip Case arrived through the afternoon prior and into the night advising of delays up to 5 hours then 3 then 2 and then 3 and on departure was 4+. (2) Cost us money to change our transport into LGW to accommodate WS. (3) worst part of the LGW terminal ever (ventilation non-existent, no amenities except for vending machines. (4) chessy staff onboard used the PA to much on board thanking each other and how great they each were, naming them individually including the names of dead end staff returning liked we care?? Duh??? Who does that —? She went on on and on....the flight "manager". (5) Seat 33K a supposedly standard seat - did not recline (yes I checked seat guru etc)...yes it was mine and the spouses did of course. You would think a non-reclining seat would state that on the WS website? rather hard on the back when your squished on from the reclining seat in front for 9 plus hours from boarding until exiting. Cant talk about food or water as we bought our own fresh made in a resto and picked up water (not interested in being bothered by staff any more than is essential). The flight itself was fine, the WS wifi flight entertainment system worked well. Washrooms were not cleaned enough though - and the plane was packed with LOTS of little kids and babys. We did not see an empty seat. I do fly with WS often now - and as you know I choose it over AC all things being equal.

[Coldrsx]

Not making excuses and delays —, but that sounds almost par for the course of peak summer travel. Seriously.

Busy places, delays, dirt!

[Johnny Aussie]

Originally Posted by Cage

If your goal is to be a primary market and hub airport, you don't overly promote a service that exists purely to secondary markets. YEG is Snow White - together with her little Brother Jon Snow of YWG - represents the only decent market for New Leaf. the other 10 markets are the dwarfs.

Only Hamilton made a big do of the second new leaf announcement.

Overly promote is one thing, to not even mention it is another. Given everything YEG has had cut from it recently, even a simple press release would be expected. But alas, nothing.

[EdmTrekker]

Originally Posted by Coldrsx

Not making excuses and delays —, but that sounds almost par for the course of peak summer travel. Seriously.

Busy places, delays, dirt!

Exactly. —. Its not like it has not happened on AC to me. This tripo we also flew on Air France twice on an ATR, Aer Lingus twice, EasyJet, Transavia. We liked the Transavia flight experience best from Paris Orly to Dublin.

[McBoo]

Off topic but on-thread - United yesterday from IAH to YEG - not one available seat - packed.

Can't tell me this market can't support a second daily. Now, support both us and AC's hub at YYC too? Possibly not.

As an add-on, the terminal configuration at IAH sux. Better signage might, I say might help.

But there's hardly a major hub airport that I do like, so ....

[Jasper and one o nin]

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

Overly promote is one thing, to not even mention it is another. Given everything YEG has had cut from it recently, even a simple press release would be expected. But alas, nothing.

Let's be clear, Newleaf is not an airline, it is a travel company. They issue tickets for flights operated by Flair Airlines. It gives them the ability to go around licensing requirements. There will be a grand total of three flights out of YEG per week? They haven't got off the ground yet and they've already had their license challenged. My guess is YEG prefers to stay quiet so they don't loose face for when the airline fails deliver.

[s211]

Originally Posted by EdmTrekker

Good ol Westjet will be coughing up a shitload of delay comps from our 4 hr plus delay yesterday LGW into YEG. EU rules apply - and the Brits on board were furious. We have already submitted and were advised it will be paid: 600 Euros each.

My —: (1) emails from WS and their little partner Trip Case arrived through the afternoon prior and into the night advising of delays up to 5 hours then 3 then 2 and then 3 and on departure was 4+. (2) Cost us money to change our transport into LGW to accommodate WS. (3) worst part of the LGW terminal ever (ventilation non-existent, no amenities except for vending machines. (4) chessy staff onboard used the PA to much on board thanking each other and how great they each were, naming them individually including the names of dead end staff returning liked we care?? Duh??? Who does that —? She went on on and on....the flight "manager". (5) Seat 33K a supposedly standard seat - did not recline (yes I checked seat guru etc)...yes it was mine and the spouses did of course. You would think a non-reclining seat would state that on the WS website? rather hard on the back when your squished on from the reclining seat in front for 9 plus hours from boarding until exiting. Cant talk about food or water as we bought our own fresh made in a resto and picked up water (not interested in being bothered by staff any more than is essential). The flight itself was fine, the WS wifi flight entertainment system worked well. Washrooms were not cleaned enough though - and the plane was packed with LOTS of little kids and babys. We did not see an empty seat. I do fly with WS often now - and as you know I choose it over AC all things being equal.

As a rule, I've just stopped flying WestJet, no matter how much less they might cost. It's a little too "Soylent Green era" NYC for me.