[Moncton] Northwest/Magnetic Hill Developments

[David_99]

I don't think the Moncton City Planners were ever good at Tetris.

[Sunnybrae]

Originally Posted by NBNYer

I remember there being talk a few years ago about the city wanting to limit development north of the TCH in an effort to curb sprawl. It seem like as soon as a developer comes around with plans to build anything, all that is thrown out the window, even if it means the city needing to invest into even more infrastructure such as realigning Queensway and potentially extending Northwood. Next will likely be major upgrades needed on Harrisville blvd with all the rumored developments there, even though Mapleton south of the TCH went through major reconstructions and still has plenty of space for development.

A perfect microcosm for the province as a whole. Spread your investments thin for a minimal return and then barely be able to maintain it.

I know this isn't politically correct but amen brother!

[Feneant]

Originally Posted by David_99

Can't say I'm a huge fan of yet another gas station in the area, especially while the other two still sit empty most of the time.

Now imagine if Irving gets around to building another Big Stop on Elmwood (though I believe that fell through). You have to wonder at what point it stops being profitable because they just spread the customers thinner, it's not like they'll add an enormous amount of sales from these.

I'm sure the people in that area are not very happy as it will turn from suburb into a very busy developed area... my question now is whether running Norwood onto Gorge would result in that 11.5 acre lot that's for sale next to the Impact Church (and right behind my house ) to sell...

[Scarface]

Originally Posted by NBNYer

I remember there being talk a few years ago about the city wanting to limit development north of the TCH in an effort to curb sprawl. It seem like as soon as a developer comes around with plans to build anything, all that is thrown out the window, even if it means the city needing to invest into even more infrastructure such as realigning Queensway and potentially extending Northwood. Next will likely be major upgrades needed on Harrisville blvd with all the rumored developments there, even though Mapleton south of the TCH went through major reconstructions and still has plenty of space for development.

A perfect microcosm for the province as a whole. Spread your investments thin for a minimal return and then barely be able to maintain it.

There was a major residential, and commercial project in the works If I'm not mistaken it was in the just before the city decided to limit development north of the TCH. I can't remember if anything was ever brought to the councils attention at the time but people where pushing the "If you build it they will come", and wanted to build up Mapleton (and Elmwood) in hopes to expand Moncton's population, and in hopes that it would be far enough away that if the city expanded Downtown borders, and developers wanted to build massive projects within the newly defined downtown these new neighborhoods would be far enough out of the way, and remain low density residential, and commercial. I new some of the people who where part of the planning committees for these massive housing development projects, and it's the only way I knew they actually existed.

Originally Posted by David_99

I don't think the Moncton City Planners were ever good at Tetris.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by NBNYer

I remember there being talk a few years ago about the city wanting to limit development north of the TCH in an effort to curb sprawl. It seem like as soon as a developer comes around with plans to build anything, all that is thrown out the window, even if it means the city needing to invest into even more infrastructure such as realigning Queensway and potentially extending Northwood. Next will likely be major upgrades needed on Harrisville blvd with all the rumored developments there, even though Mapleton south of the TCH went through major reconstructions and still has plenty of space for development.

A perfect microcosm for the province as a whole. Spread your investments thin for a minimal return and then barely be able to maintain it.

I generally agree with your sentiments, but in many ways, the "genie is out of the bottle" in the NW end, what with the Magnetic Hill attractions, Crandall University, the Hampton Inn and several suburban subdivisions. Connecting Gorge & Mapleton via Northwood would improve connectivity in the NW end and, as I said, allow for a new area where highway commercial development could occur.

Highway commercial development is an entirely different beast than downtown development and both these types of development should be able to coexist. Highway commercial tends to cater to the travelling public and includes hotels, restaurants, gas stations and perhaps certain types of retail which are attractions in themselves but not suited to the downtown core (such as a factory outlet mall).

I think the NW end is a lost cause. Aside from this area though, I think all efforts should be made to limit development from leaping the TCH.......

EDIT:

Of course, there is one other area where development has leapfrogged the TCH. I forgot Caledonia Industrial Park and Elmwood Drive. Again, the genie is out of the bottle here too and carefully considered development (near the TCH) in these areas should continue (especially in Caledonia). Aside from these examples however, densification (especially in the core) should be a paramount consideration for the civic administration........

[MonctonRad]

A couple of new tenants for vacancies in the Lounsbury Home Decor Centre.

- Apparently a pita restaurant of some form is moving into where Quizno's Sub was located.
- A smoke shop is going to occupy the old Jane's Gluten Free store.

[MonctonRad]

There's trouble a-brewin' regarding the Holiday Inn development:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/moncton-rezoning-development-mapleton-1.3648067

This guy has a point, and the city should be attentive to him regarding his concerns. If there is a fly in the ointment, I expect it to be the province. They don't plan any upgrades to the Mapleton exit for at least a couple of years and the developer wants to get moving this summer. The province unfortunately is not renown for it's flexibility.

[Patapouf26]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

There's trouble a-brewin' regarding the Holiday Inn development:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/moncton-rezoning-development-mapleton-1.3648067

This guy has a point, and the city should be attentive to him regarding his concerns. If there is a fly in the ointment, I expect it to be the province. They don't plan any upgrades to the Mapleton exit for at least a couple of years and the developer wants to get moving this summer. The province unfortunately is not renown for it's flexibility.

I agree in many respects. The infrastructure is borderline inadequate for what is already there. I can only imagine with the addition of a new hotel and two restaurants that will be popular...

But, it's been discussed here before, suburban development is very costly and it's very difficult to recoup in terms of tax revenue (ROI). I suppose both levels of government will have little choice eventually. It is stated in the article that the developers ''would contribute to the cost of putting in sidewalks "on their frontage''. Couldn't the city and the province push for more of a contribution - within reason of course?

[stephan.richard]

Originally Posted by Patapouf26

I agree in many respects. The infrastructure is borderline inadequate for what is already there. I can only imagine with the addition of a new hotel and two restaurants that will be popular...

But, it's been discussed here before, suburban development is very costly and it's very difficult to recoup in terms of tax revenue (ROI). I suppose both levels of government will have little choice eventually. It is stated in the article that the developers ''would contribute to the cost of putting in sidewalks "on their frontage''. Couldn't the city and the province push for more of a contribution - within reason of course?

One thing that these people(Residents) get in the way with development I know that the infrastructure on that end of town might be lacking but IF the developer in question wants to work with the city in getting the infrastructure in place let him build it. One recommendation that I would put forward is at the intersection of the exit at Mapleton why not put a set of lights to help with congestion. I am thinking it would be a bonus to have extra hotel rooms in that part of town. But I think now the focus should be on bringing in a huge retail development in that area near the Four Points By Sheraton.

[Monctoncore]

You know what would be even better, if the developers from the tannery said to him, hey we have this property on the corner of main and Vaughn Harvey and maybe we can work something out, Hilton wants to build there and you have from the looks of your design two big restaurants that would look wonderful in our development on the ground floor of one of the buildings, or even possibly as part of the hotel. Build it here... Then we have this amazing hotel with two nice restaurants right downtown, very close to the brand new arena and then it's not just another 6 story hotel built next to the trans Canada... (All just dreams of course.)

Though on the other side of it, it would be pretty cool someday for people to be driving down the TCH and be coming into Moncton to seeing big hotels and some larger scale apartments lining the highway... I always love seeing that when driving into larger cities. ( again dreams)

[OUIR@random]

Originally Posted by stephan.richard

One thing that these people(Residents) get in the way with development I know that the infrastructure on that end of town might be lacking but IF the developer in question wants to work with the city in getting the infrastructure in place let him build it. One recommendation that I would put forward is at the intersection of the exit at Mapleton why not put a set of lights to help with congestion. I am thinking it would be a bonus to have extra hotel rooms in that part of town. But I think now the focus should be on bringing in a huge retail development in that area near the Four Points By Sheraton.

With the lukewarm economy, several high quality or prominent retail spaces for rent in the metro area, I don't see a major retail development in the near future; mall, outlet mall or development à la Dartmouth Crossings. Several smaller projects in the area, perhaps; Holiday Inn and restaurants, should go ahead in the end. I think the proposed project behind the Mapleton Centre and Four Points is probably dead or at least on the back burner in the short to mid-term.

[pierremoncton]

Originally Posted by Monctoncore

You know what would be even better, if the developers from the tannery said to him, hey we have this property on the corner of main and Vaughn Harvey and maybe we can work something out, Hilton wants to build there and you have from the looks of your design two big restaurants that would look wonderful in our development on the ground floor of one of the buildings, or even possibly as part of the hotel. Build it here... Then we have this amazing hotel with two nice restaurants right downtown, very close to the brand new arena and then it's not just another 6 story hotel built next to the trans Canada... (All just dreams of course.)

The city should say no to the development at its proposed location unless they also want to shoulder the cost of appropriate infrastructure; otherwise, it's private profit at public risk & cost. There are other places this hotel can be built without requiring new infrastructure, even if it's not downtown.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by pierremoncton

The city should say no to the development at its proposed location unless they also want to shoulder the cost of appropriate infrastructure; otherwise, it's private profit at public risk & cost. There are other places this hotel can be built without requiring new infrastructure, even if it's not downtown.

I sympathize with what you are saying pierre, but it would probably be unfair to make the developer responsible for all the inadequecies of the Mapleton/TCH interchange area. Most of the problems there are the city's (and the provinces) fault, not the developers.

- It is the city that was responsible for turning Mapleton into a prime development zone in the first place by widening the overpass over Wheeler, and by designing Mapleton between Wheeler and the TCH as a four lane limited access boulevard with turning lanes. The idea was to make Mapleton the prime gateway into the city from the west, and to groom it as major commercial street. To this end, they have been quite successful.
- The province meanwhile has done nothing to the Mapleton/TCH interchange; not even any traffic signals on the off ramps. Traffic continues to build and the situation is becoming more dangerous.
- The city was previously warned about egress problems from the northern stretch of Mapleton above the TCH when the Hampton Inn was proposed. The city did nothing and approved the hotel anyway.

So, the current situation is the city's and the provinces fault, not the developer. As such, it should be the city and the province which should be responsible for fixing these pre-existing and previously well known deficiencies.

The province should fix the Mapleton/TCH interchange. The city should extend Northwood to Gorge. I do think that the city could approach the developer to help out with the cost of realigning Northwood & Queensway, with widening Mapleton in front of their development and with sidewalk construction in the area. To ask more of the developer than this would be unfair IMHO.

[Patapouf26]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

I do think that the city could approach the developer to help out with the cost of realigning Northwood & Queensway, with widening Mapleton in front of their development and with sidewalk construction in the area. To ask more of the developer than this would be unfair IMHO.

Absolutely! If they can push for more of a contribution from the developers, then, like I mentioned earlier, I can't disagree with this project going ahead. Then again, I much prefer Monctoncore's suggestion (wishful thinking!).

Indeed, both governments are certainly to blame for this lack of infrastructure. I'm sure a reasonable deal can be achieved.

[David_99]

No need to punish the developer. All they had to do was agree to the rezoning on the condition that the construction wait a couple years until the City and Province can agree on and complete the infrastructure improvements. Why the rush to get shovels in the ground?

[pierremoncton]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

The province should fix the Mapleton/TCH interchange. The city should extend Northwood to Gorge. I do think that the city could approach the developer to help out with the cost of realigning Northwood & Queensway, with widening Mapleton in front of their development and with sidewalk construction in the area. To ask more of the developer than this would be unfair IMHO.

You're better informed than I on this matter. The city and province may have been neglectful in the past, but don't you think the developer bears some responsibility given that they're requesting to rezone the area? That's analogous to a business asking to rezone a residential area in order to build an industrial facility, and having the gall to tell the city to widen the surrounding streets at the public's expense to accommodate transport trucks, and to tell residents to deal with the noise - instead of just moving into an existing industrial park.

There's already a public risk due to insufficient road connections. If the hotel and restaurants are built, then either (a) that risk is greatly increased, or (b) the public needs to pay for it. Either way, private profit at the public's expense - at least short term, and in that short term, there's still plenty of land south of the TCH. And that land is likely more expensive because it is worth more; so pay more for properly-zoned and properly-serviced land, or pay to bring cheap land up to code.

That's my train of thought anyway. In any event, the city will chicken out and let them build anything anywhere unless there's an active fight from that neighbourhood's residents. I'm not directly impacted so I don't really care, aside from thinking it's foolish for city councillors to be pushovers at the sight of a few bucks and allowing the city to keep sprawling.

[josh_cat_eyes]

It would be nice to see the hotel and restaurants potentialy in Maple Crossing rather then in s brand now development, but either way, I'm happy if it gets built

[Scarface]

Originally Posted by josh_cat_eyes

It would be nice to see the hotel and restaurants potentialy in Maple Crossing rather then in s brand now development, but either way, I'm happy if it gets built

Taking form what you said, and also from previous talks of almost all developers seem to stick together, and only build in an area at a time ti'll another area seem to be the "Better area" I would say I'd like to see another hotel built where the old Motor inn was. Since the building burnt down it does not seem like anything was planed for the area...

[MonctonRad]

The Fun Zone at Magic Mountain is getting ready to open for their second season. Phase two of their expansion is nearly complete and will see four new rides added - the Wave Swinger (from Crystal Palace), a Tilt-a-Whirl, a Scrambler and the Convoy ride (also from Crystal Palace). These will join the seven rides installed last year. Two more rides may be added next year.

[KnoxfordGuy]

This is turning into the East Coast version of Canada's Wonderland!