Time for Vancouver to Tear Down Its Viaducts?

[Stingray2004]

Originally Posted by officedweller

June 1, 2016

From the Rogers South Tower crane operator


https://twitter.com/lesterclj64

Great shot. And, as I have postulated in this thread herein, over the years, am very comfortably confident that said viaducts will remain intact over the coming decades.

Don't want to repeat, ad nauseam, that Translink has the final say upon removal as the Georgia viaduct is part of Translink's MRN and both viaducts are part of Translink's Major Truck Network.

And Translink continues to remain mute on the matter... esp. with their previous precedent decisions on same throughout the region.

With the Malkin Connector now on the radar screen... even makes both viaducts removal even more unlikely... from Translink's perspective IMHO.

[trofirhen]

Tunnel it from East False Creek to the Grandview cut. I don't think people appreciate what a piece of infrastructure like this would do for the future.

[jsbertram]

Originally Posted by trofirhen

Tunnel it from East False Creek to the Grandview cut. I don't think people appreciate what a piece of infrastructure like this would do for the future.

Do you know that most of that route would be through man-made fill in the old False Creek that was mud flats right to Clark Dr?

Seattle was tunnelling their replacement for the Alaska Viaduct until they hit a (single -- one -- uno) metal casing pipe that damaged some cutter heads on the TBM. Work was stopped for over two years so a pit could be dug down to the front of the machine, the damaged cutters replaced, and the offending metal pipe removed. Ironically the metal pipe was left behind after exploratory wells were drilled in the area in 2002 when the Alaska Way viaduct was being assessed after the 2001 earthquake. The TBM is now working again, but the tunnel's completion has been delayed to 2018 - three years late.

With all the unknown junk that was tossed into False Creek when it was being filled in, I won't be surprised that a TBM would be hitting unknown surprises every week, causing damage to the TBM and the tunnelling schedule.

[logicbomb]

Overheard that BNSF and CN are preparing to decommission their railyards in the False Creek Flats.

Wonder how this could impact local traffic if we see development in these parcels of lands.

[officedweller]

That's interesting, as the last City report on the Flats indicated that BNSF had intentions to remain using the railyards, which set back the Ciyt's plans for the area.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by officedweller

That's interesting, as the last City report on the Flats indicated that BNSF had intentions to remain using the railyards, which set back the Ciyt's plans for the area.

CP just cut their revenue forecast by 12%. Could be BNSF and CN are feeling the pinch as well and looking to unload underutilized assets.

I hope we don't lose any decent ROWs if they get rid of those railyards.

[logicbomb]

Originally Posted by officedweller

That's interesting, as the last City report on the Flats indicated that BNSF had intentions to remain using the railyards, which set back the Ciyt's plans for the area.

That was circa 2007/08 when there were a few customers within the vicinity. Since then, BNSF has seen a steady decline in usage, even no longer accessing the Port of Vancouver (or at least that's what I was told). Take a look at the Glen yard right now and see it's pretty much empty. CN is continuing work to downsize their yard as we speak. CP is also about to decommission the Marpole Spur and operations yard near Fraser.

Fact is that large railroad corporations are looking to cut off underutilized assets and perhaps make a profit in doing so. This is the case in Vancouver and SW BC.

It will no doubt open up a world of opportunities for False Creek and Vancouver, but we have to hope that this will sway the COV to re-think their plans to remove the viaducts.

[cornholio]

They just built the Powell street overpass to better utilize the False creek rail yards because they are short on space for rail car storage. So this doesn't make much sense. Unless of course they have some other "joint" regional solution. That would mean new and expanded rail yards elsewhere in the region and some sort of improved scheduling system for train operations to and from the port of Vancouver.

The land is certainly worth money even if it is contaminated infill. But I just dont see how this can be possible.

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by cornholio

They just built the Powell street overpass to better utilize the False creek rail yards because they are short on space for rail car storage. So this doesn't make much sense. ...

... and that's the same reason for the Malkin Overpass.
If it's goodbye railyards - the Malkin connection cam be built by building up the grade.

[BCPhil]

Even if the big players want to halt their operations on the flats, legally they have to offer the tracks up to other railroads first. If there are some small customers that could be served by bringing in small freight trains to the flats, SRY might be interested.

CP themselves might be interested, which would make grade separation there even more crucial. With the Centerm expansion, they might want more space. They could always martial trains in the flats, and sell off some of their waterfront yard that's probably worth twice as much.

They also can't just rip up the yards. The Rocky Mountaineer makes use of the yards, and if intercity operations expand out of Pacific Central, they might need the space. Pacific Central is hemmed in there pretty well.

If Via ever starts up the Canadian service daily (it's been rumored for a long time) and if Amtrak runs enough trains that more than 1 need to overnight in Vancouver, there just isn't enough storage at Pacific Central.

However, If they do tear down the viaducts and the flats are abandoned (even partially), the yards to provide an place for a future Downtown Streetcar OCM.

[Vin]

Originally Posted by officedweller

June 1, 2016

From the Rogers South Tower crane operator


https://twitter.com/lesterclj64

Those are a pair of beautiful road infrastructure we have! Love that smooth-flowing traffic they are bringing to this part of town.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by Vin

Those are a pair of beautiful road infrastructure we have! Love that smooth-flowing traffic they are bringing to this part of town.

I see a completely empty Dunsmuir viaduct and a complete waste of space in the form of surface parking.

[Alex Mackinnon]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

I see a completely empty Dunsmuir viaduct and a complete waste of space in the form of surface parking.

That looks like light timing mostly. There's a few cars coming from Prior. But, yeah, most roads aren't super busy during the early afternoon (judging by the shadows).

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by Alex Mackinnon

That looks like light timing mostly. There's a few cars coming from Prior. But, yeah, most roads aren't super busy during the early afternoon (judging by the shadows).

I'm just bugging the usual suspects. I'd say that traffic is pretty good for early afternoon. Any time I'm on the road after about 1pm it's just bad until the evening rush is over.

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by BCPhil

The Rocky Mountaineer makes use of the yards, and if intercity operations expand out of Pacific Central, they might need the space. Pacific Central is hemmed in there pretty well.

Forgot about the Rocky Mountaineer.

PS - the VIA trains use the BNSF or CN "U" to reverse (don't know whether it's reversing when exiting or arriving at Pacific Central.

[BCPhil]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

I see a completely empty Dunsmuir viaduct and a complete waste of space in the form of surface parking.

And if I posted a snapshot of an empty park after sunset on a rainy day, would you propose to raze it too? For some reason Pacific Center is empty at 2am, tear down that waste of space!

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by BCPhil

And if I posted a snapshot of an empty park after sunset on a rainy day, would you propose to raze it too? For some reason Pacific Center is empty at 2am, tear down that waste of space!

Nope. I didn't advocate for tearing down the viaducts either, I've just come to accept it, and I'm looking forward to the changes to the area that are badly needed.

[Pinion]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Nope. I didn't advocate for tearing down the viaducts either, I've just come to accept it, and I'm looking forward to the changes to the area that are badly needed.

This is pretty funny considering your post history in this thread.

[cleowin]

Speaking of a tunnel from the Grandview cut, this could be used as a Toll Expressway from Highway 1 right to the entrance of downtown vancouver, with reduced tolls or even free use for trucks & busses. Could remove some of the overly congested car/truck traffic from the surface streets. By all no means, do not build an expressway through the city, but you could make a tunnel that surfaces at the entrance of downtown, and keep the rest the same.

[BCPhil]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Nope. I didn't advocate for tearing down the viaducts either, I've just come to accept it, and I'm looking forward to the changes to the area that are badly needed.

Changes can be done to change the area even with the viaducts in place. And the flip side of that coin is even once the viaducts are gone, there are no guarantees that anything will actually happen.

There are still empty tracks of land between Cambie Bridge and the OV. The lot to the East of the OV sat completely empty since the Olympics 6 years ago, and will be slowly built on over the next several years. Heck, the only reason the OV happened at the speed it happened at was because of a billion dollar subsidy. How long has Providence been sitting on the new St Paul's land? And even if things go ahead at full speed, it won't be done until 2022. How long have there been proposals for Plaza of Nations? Spectrum towers managed to get built with the viaducts in place, and that was a parking lot for decades before.

The idea that the viaducts are the sole obstacle standing in the way of Vancouver becoming a finally complete Utopia is completely ridiculous. It is like we are in a hurry to tear them down and replace them with a traffic clogged road that will pass through still barren land for the next 15 years.