Stadiums and Arenas of Canada part 2

[esquire]

^ For all of the questionable decision making surrounding Skydome, at least it still works... the Big O is just the absolute worst-case scenario of an exorbitantly expensive facility that effectively killed its tenants, no longer really functions, and can't be demolished because of the exorbitant costs that would incur. Olympic Stadium isn't really a parasite, but it's about as close as a building can get to being one.

But I agree, I think we'd be foolish not to have learned our lesson from the expensive stadium follies of the past.

[Coldrsx]

Let me preface the following with the fact that I am supportive of a new facility in Calgary, both for the Flames and Stamps. Ken King is coming off as more of a ______ than someone else up north was being perceived to be. Nice 'second class' comment.

----

Braid: Second-class Calgary? Warning from Flames president won't make CalgaryNEXT happen

DON BRAID, CALGARY HERALD

http://calgaryherald.com/news/politics/b...-the-prospect-doesnt-guarantee-new-arena

[FrankieFlowerpot]

http://www.lapresse.ca/actualites/201606...e-de-730-000-pour-la-ville-de-quebec.php

Despite the presence of several big names like Madonna and Metallica and attendance records to junior hockey, the first four months of the Vidéotron Centre have resulted in a heavy operating loss. Quebecor has lost at least $ 1.4 million in the adventure, a bill that will be borne 50% by the taxpayers of Quebec.

This information, revealed Monday morning by the Leader of the Opposition in the City Hall of Quebec, far exceed the forecasts made by Mayor Régis Labeaume. He had instead predicted a bill of about $ 600,000 per year to the City, without the presence of a team of the National Hockey League (NHL).

"If 2016 is a reflection of what have been the last four months of 2015, when there was still a lot of events, there is talk of a potential deficit of 2.2 million a year," denounced in La Presse Councillor Paul Shoiry, Québec Democracy party leader.

Under an agreement with QMI Entertainment - a subsidiary of Quebecor - for the management of the amphitheater, the City of Quebec must assume half the operating deficits of up to 2.5 million per year. The municipality owns the building, financed with 370 million in public funds.

[king10]

Originally Posted by HomerSPC

Not at all. I'm merely defending my point that it is common for the largest stadium to be in the capital, and as such, be the city which could host the final. I also stated in my original post that Canada is one of the exceptions. Either way, there is no reason why Edmonton couldn't host a World Cup final if we did not want to build brand new stadiums for the event. Stadium construction tends to be a very touchy subject in this country, so if we could use an existing stadium that's a huge positive.

EDIT: For context, here was my original post:

Edmonton will not host a world cup final. The World Cup Final has been reserved for a capital city/ cultural capital/ largest city population wise/ world renowned city.

Mtl is already spending $166 million to renovate the Big O. They wouldn't hesitate to throw more money to renovate it if it were given the opportunity to host a world cup final. The exposure to the world would be massive. The building will have to be maintained or torn down at a substantial cost. Seeing as they are committing $166 million to it and Desjardins is moving in to the forever vacant office tower, they are not looking to tear it down. And a world cup final would be reason to spend additional funds to maintain/upgrade it.

There is no doubt MTL will be a city to host world cup games. Which venue would they use? New build or olympic stadium. If it's olympic stadium money will be spent to renovate it and it will be more than large enough to host a world cup final. The organizing committee won't ignore MTL as a host city.

http://globalnews.ca/news/2316888/the-olympic-stadium-to-get-166m-renovation/

[Coldrsx]

^as much as it hurts to say this... it would be MTL or Van. We would get the main semi-final perhaps.

[king10]

Originally Posted by Coldrsx

^as much as it hurts to say this... it would be MTL or Van. We would get the main semi-final perhaps.

Vancouver at current capacity would be too small. You need at least 65,000/ 70,000 seats. I don't see how BC place could be expanded.

Final would either be in a renovated Big O or new build in Toronto tied to an NFL team (long shot) or a 40,000 seat stadium for TFC/Argos with an additional 30,000 temp seats.

Vancovuer and Edmonton would be Quarter Final or Semi Final hosts.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Coldrsx

Let me preface the following with the fact that I am supportive of a new facility in Calgary, both for the Flames and Stamps. Ken King is coming off as more of a ______ than someone else up north was being perceived to be. Nice 'second class' comment.

----

Braid: Second-class Calgary? Warning from Flames president won't make CalgaryNEXT happen

DON BRAID, CALGARY HERALD

http://calgaryherald.com/news/politics/b...-the-prospect-doesnt-guarantee-new-arena

Ridiculous. This kind of hardball ploy might work in smaller markets with deep seated civic insecurities and a genuine fear of losing their team for good.

But Calgary is not some Podunk town... everybody knows that Calgary has the ability to generate massive amounts of revenue for a NHL team... that's why the whole "we're going to leave your one-horse town if you don't build us an arena" schtick won't work in Calgary. Who thinks for a second that if the Flames move to Hamilton or whatever that another NHL owner with a money losing team wouldn't be chomping at the bit to move to Calgary?

CSEG should stop acting foolishly and pony up already. Just because other civic governments make bad decisions about new arenas doesn't mean that Calgary can be easily cowed the same way.

[Jaws]

Originally Posted by thurmas

What would really help make Commonwealth feel more intimate is ripping out the useless endzone seats that are tarped over every game. There is no need for the Eskimos having 58,000 seats when they usually average between 30-35,000 per game. Take the 8,000 or so tarped over endzone seats and make it a grass endzone like it was originally in 1978.

There has always been endzone seating. It was the 4 "corners" that were grass. Commonwealth sells out for concerts and Grey Cups as it stands. There's no need to spend money to remove the newly installed seats.

[esquire]

^ It's good for Edmonton to have the flexibility that the extra seating provides. I don't see how putting back grass in the corners would be in any way preferable to tarped over seats.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by king10

Edmonton will not host a world cup final. The World Cup Final has been reserved for a capital city/ cultural capital/ largest city population wise/ world renowned city.

And even if Ottawa had a Commonwealth-sized stadium, it would still be a longshot to host a WC final IMO.

[osmo]

Originally Posted by FrankieFlowerpot

http://www.lapresse.ca/actualites/201606...e-de-730-000-pour-la-ville-de-quebec.php

This is not ideal news. Typically Arenas can print money even without a major tenant. Sprint Center in KC for example makes a ton of money with no pro team full-time.

This either points that not enough revenue dates are at Videotron, or they can't get good money at the gates to turn profits. You can only charge what the market will pay. Concerts are one thing but if your charging $12 for Jr. Hockey then you are not going to make that much cash. Considering the fact it is a major league arena with major league operating costs this is not the best start to the Videotron.

[HomeInMyShoes]

KC proves that it can be done, but I'm not sure what Quebec's event market is like. KC is a metro of > 2 million and the Sprint Center is four to six blocks away from most of the financial district in a pretty urban built-up area. I think those things make a difference when marketing shows.

I think Videotron can make it work without a major sports tentant. It is brand new and they maybe didn't have their total plan in place to start, really focusing on the hockey to start, but I think they can make it work.

[blueandgoldguy]

Originally Posted by Coldrsx

It was a different experience, ok I guess, standing room only except for the top row which had a row of seats behind it to use *

Lacked atmosphere and or anything else as a 'party zone'. We gave feedback to the Esks. It needs a Bacardi tiki bar and or Bacardi servers. Everyone was drinking Pil in the rum zone?!?!? Maybe a giveaway or 2 as well to spice things up.

Good value for $40.

*protip - get this row

Thanks for that! Hopefully they do add that bar which will give that area of the stadium a more festive atmosphere.

I could see the Bomber doing something similar in a few years with a section or two in the North End of the stadium by the Rum Hut. Rip out several rows of seats and replace them with a tiered party deck.

[blueandgoldguy]

The Videotron Centre did not even crack the top-200 worldwide arena venues for total non-sports attendance. Granted, it was only open for 4 months. We will see how they do in 2016 after being open for an entire calendar year.

[SkydivePilot]

Originally Posted by Slobberpuss

Why?!? Ottawa already has the newest most awesome stadium

Hahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!

. . . . . . nnno.

[Oilkountry]

World cup final= Big O

...Why are we even evaluating this? It's slated for a big renovation as is. Why would canada build a new 70,000 stadium when we have one that is going to be a money pit as is?

-Expanded saputo
-Rogers centre and (or) BMO (russia and qatar both using multiple venues in 1 city)
-BC place
-CWS
-THF
-TD place
-NMS
-New or refurbished Calgary stadium
-Possible a new stadium in Quebec city or Halifax

As it stands today with out a single stadium built (post mosiac) we would have the stadiums and cities necessary to host a world cup. The big O needs 200-300M. In repairs regardless of the world cup or not. To build a 70,000 seat "NFL" stadium for a month long soccer tournament would be a very unnecessary use of tax payer dollars. We could upgrade every stadium in this country and build a new one in Halifax and quebec for the same price.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Oilkountry

World cup final= Big O

...Why are we even evaluating this? It's slated for a big renovation as is. Why would canada build a new 70,000 stadium when we have one that is going to be a money pit as is?

-Expanded saputo
-Rogers centre and (or) BMO (russia and qatar both using multiple venues in 1 city)
-BC place
-CWS
-THF
-TD place
-NMS
-New or refurbished Calgary stadium
-Possible a new stadium in Quebec city or Halifax

As it stands today with out a single stadium built (post mosiac) we would have the stadiums and cities necessary to host a world cup. The big O needs 200-300M. In repairs regardless of the world cup or not. To build a 70,000 seat "NFL" stadium for a month long soccer tournament would be a very unnecessary use of tax payer dollars. We could upgrade every stadium in this country and build a new one in Halifax and quebec for the same price.

Yeah, looking at this realistically...

FIFA would be totally OK with Vancouver hosting a WC final, but there is no way another new stadium big enough is going to get built in that city when they've already got BC Place that fully meets their needs.

Toronto is kind of in the same situation in that it seems to have all of the stadiums it needs for the foreseeable future, and a huge new build would only be required *if* the NFL were confirmed as coming to town.

[king10]

Originally Posted by Oilkountry

World cup final= Big O

...Why are we even evaluating this? It's slated for a big renovation as is. Why would canada build a new 70,000 stadium when we have one that is going to be a money pit as is?

-Expanded saputo
-Rogers centre and (or) BMO (russia and qatar both using multiple venues in 1 city)
-BC place
-CWS
-THF
-TD place
-NMS
-New or refurbished Calgary stadium
-Possible a new stadium in Quebec city or Halifax

As it stands today with out a single stadium built (post mosiac) we would have the stadiums and cities necessary to host a world cup. The big O needs 200-300M. In repairs regardless of the world cup or not. To build a 70,000 seat "NFL" stadium for a month long soccer tournament would be a very unnecessary use of tax payer dollars. We could upgrade every stadium in this country and build a new one in Halifax and quebec for the same price.

Agree with this. Only thing thats iffy is a Saputo expansion. They may not do that and just go with 10 stadiums in the bid. Saputo doesn't really need to be expanded as capacity is fine for the impact and would require quite a bit of work as there are stands on all 4 side of the stadium already. Save your money from the Saputo expansion and use it on the Big O.

[Horus]

Originally Posted by Oilkountry

To build a 70,000 seat "NFL" stadium for a month long soccer tournament would be a very unnecessary use of tax payer dollars. We could upgrade every stadium in this country and build a new one in Halifax and quebec for the same price.

Much like how paying Billions to an unaccountable, corrupt international organization for the 'privilege' of hosting a month-long soccer tournament that we have no chance of winning (or being competitive in) would be?

[osmo]

Every 6 months this topic creeps back up on the WC final.

I have mentioned time and time again that Vancouver is not realistic for the WC final. FIFA demands security requirements that BC Place can't offer with its tight footprint downtown. The capacity requirements are just another factor (Rogers Centre is excluded for the same reason and the Jays still play baseball in the summer... they won't care for a WC and won't stay away on the road for the whole duration of the tourney).

The Big O is the biggest stadium in Canada. It is a pit but it would need a money dump anyway. It is Montreal or Toronto and a new (temp) facility on Federal land at Downsview on the subway line.

Edmonton is the darkhorse (meaning that both Toronto and Montreal would have to flop) but it is in the middle of no place (comparative to the global centres around the world) and the airport is too far away from the core. Edmonton could host the final but it would have to expand its airport and build a direct rail link to the airport as well.


Montreal has the most easy path:

Montreal
A stadium that will need a major renovation anyway $$$
On a Metro line
Security Buffer
Global Airport with (planned) Rail link

Toronto:
Would need a new major stadium $$$
On a metro line
Security Buffer
Global Airport with Rail link

Vancouver
Would need to renovate BC place to expand capacity $$$
No Security Buffer
On a Metro line
Global Airport with Rail link

Edmonton
Stadium with capacity
On a Metro link
Security Buffer
No Global Airport with no direct rail access $$$

Each city would have to dump 100s of millions to make a final happen. But for Montreal those 100s of million have to be spent any how. The Big O needs a major renovation or else the rats will take it over.

The blunt reality is that Mississauga has more of a chance than most other Canadian cities to host a WC final. All Mississauga would have to do is build a stadium. Really that is it. It has all of the advantages that Toronto would via default of being its neighbour and would be no different than Pasadena, St Denis, or Yokohama in being dominate suburban satellite cites that hosted finals.