PITTSBURGH | Development Rundown II

[eschaton]

This article is DC focused, but helps explain the issue.

Bottom line - developers are cheap.

[Don't Be That Guy]

Originally Posted by eschaton

This article is DC focused, but helps explain the issue.

Bottom line - developers are cheap.

I didn't come away from reading that article with a take away that "developers are cheap." It's that there isn't enough residential density in mid-rise construction (6-10 stories) to justify the massive costs associated with steel frame construction. Even in expensive cities like DC there isn't enough demand to get a return on investment for mid-rise residential construction.

There is some potential with the cross laminated timber construction, but there are currently no suppliers for that materiel on the east coast so that remains extremely cost prohibitive.

Long story short, people complain about the high rents for the new apartments in Pittsburgh, but those rents would be 20%+ higher if they utilized steel frame construction.

[AFW523]

Great

[Austinlee]

Originally Posted by AFW523

Great

Do you like them or is that sarcasm?

[AFW523]

Originally Posted by Austinlee

Do you like them or is that sarcasm?

A little bit of both. Price point initially seemed high to me (albeit not by much), but if they have a waiting list ready to jump on them, the market is the market for new construction. I'm sure 152-lifers will lose their GD minds over it. Sounds like they are going to be fairly sizable so I guess $/sqf is generally in line with what should be expected. It's obviously an area mostly devoid of other for-sale new builds, which should be a positive. I'm indifferent on the housing stock itself, as most townhome projects are neither ambitious nor insulting. The direct locals will take it as an affront to their plight, of which I am also indifferent. Overall I just hope it's better executed than that Village of Shadyside schlock directly next to it, which the revised renderings that were on here a few months back seemed to indicate.

[eschaton]

To me the most telling portion of the Post Gazette article was this...

Walnut Capital, the developer behind Bakery Square and Bakery Square 2.0, has land available to build a second office building at Bakery Square 2.0 but plans to wait to see how the market develops. “We want to be careful to make sure it fits in with the whole atmosphere and scheme of Bakery Square,” Mr. Reidbord said.

Sounds like the second office building is past the point of merely being delayed to find an anchor tenant, and now Walnut Capital is considering scrapping it entirely. For what I wonder - more residential and retail?

[eschaton]

This is a cool little project in Beechview that I had some information on in the zoning board summary last week. Apparently it's to be a hostel, jazz club, and diner.

Also, Millcraft is apparently looking to build 850 apartments in Chateau. The article is behind a paywall however, so i can't read it.

[AFW523]

No dice on Smart City Challenge.

Can't say I'm very surprised considering a majority of the presentation seemed to be based around a private enterprise's interest in autonomous driving, instead of, you know, things the city could be propagating to actually improve transit.

I also don't think it is a huge deal, as $50mil, while not a drop in the bucket, wouldn't really revolutionize anything around here. Most of it would probably be sunk into research and admin costs, and the execution of anything thereafter would never see the funding to achieve whatever exactly it was that they were going for. Still...Columbus? Damn it.

[Jonboy1983]

Originally Posted by AFW523

No dice on Smart City Challenge.

Can't say I'm very surprised considering a majority of the presentation seemed to be based around a private enterprise's interest in autonomous driving, instead of, you know, things the city could be propagating to actually improve transit.

I also don't think it is a huge deal, as $50mil, while not a drop in the bucket, wouldn't really revolutionize anything around here. Most of it would probably be sunk into research and admin costs, and the execution of anything thereafter would never see the funding to achieve whatever exactly it was that they were going for. Still...Columbus? Damn it.

It seems that Pittsburgh wants to put all its eggs in the basket of Lyft and Uber. That will not be the end all - be all solution of Pittsburgh's almost complete lack of transportation infrastructure. Granted, as you said, it will take a lot more than $50 million to fix Pittsburgh's network. I get your points; they are quite valid, but anyone with the right mindset could at least get the ball rolling with that. Maybe they could use it to research and devise a real plan to fix our transit situation. I'd like to see a combination of bus-rapid transit routes along with extending the T network -- or at least doing something with the T so that the system actually functions more like a metro rather than a glorified streetcar system...

[IMBY]

Originally Posted by eschaton

My wife (who is an architect) told me you're generally allowed by code to build with wood frame up to around four stories. That's why the standard height of most new apartment buildings tends to be four stories of wood frame on top of one story of steel. Once you go much above that, you have to build the whole structure in steel, which raises the cost quite a bit. I don't think we're seeing any steel residential construction right now, outside of Oakland (was SkyVue steel? I didn't see while it was in early phases).

You certainly wouldn't see these type of buildings being built in Mexico. CEMEX, that huge concrete company down there, will absolutely insist that everything be built down there with their products only, whether it be a 2 story motel, apartment building or house.

If you do see some wooden structures in photo's of Mexico, it's due to squatters, building temporary wooden shacks on property they don't own.

Similarly, in this country, it's the lumber companies that rule!

I had a house designed for me on some land in south Tijuana, by Arquimex, and every iota of that house was to be concrete, with a full-length rooftop deck!

I have such an unreasonable fear of being caught up in a fire, I won't even live in a wooden single family home.

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by IMBY

You certainly wouldn't see these type of buildings being built in Mexico. CEMEX, that huge concrete company down there, will absolutely insist that everything be built down there with their products only, whether it be a 2 story motel, apartment building or house.

If you do see some wooden structures in photo's of Mexico, it's due to squatters, building temporary wooden shacks on property they don't own.

Similarly, in this country, it's the lumber companies that rule!

I had a house designed for me on some land in south Tijuana, by Arquimex, and every iota of that house was to be concrete, with a full-length rooftop deck!

I have such an unreasonable fear of being caught up in a fire, I won't even live in a wooden single family home.

Yeah. In Europe concrete construction is ubiquitous as well. They cannot understand why we use drywall instead of plaster as well.

[GeneW]

Originally Posted by eschaton

This is a cool little project in Beechview that I had some information on in the zoning board summary last week. Apparently it's to be a hostel, jazz club, and diner.

Also, Millcraft is apparently looking to build 850 apartments in Chateau. The article is behind a paywall however, so i can't read it.

Darn, I'd like to know more details about that Chateau project and it doesn't seem to have surfaced on the Trib or PG. How long do Business Journal stories stay behind the paywall?

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by GeneW

Darn, I'd like to know more details about that Chateau project and it doesn't seem to have surfaced on the Trib or PG. How long do Business Journal stories stay behind the paywall?

Forever unfortunately. And you can't use incognito to slip behind a paywall as you can with the Post-Gazette.

We used to have a subscription here at my office until we canceled it around a year ago. Maybe someone else can give us the details.

[AFW523]

Originally Posted by Jonboy1983

It seems that Pittsburgh wants to put all its eggs in the basket of Lyft and Uber. That will not be the end all - be all solution of Pittsburgh's almost complete lack of transportation infrastructure.

Agreed 100%. I understand the importance of raising awareness of the assets throughout the region...but the constant parroting of the same "CMU! UBER! GOOGLE!" from the people in County/City government is beginning to not only become embarrassing in a "Surprise - you'll never guess something like that is in our blue collar, steel town!" but it also is beginning to illustrate the almost complete lack of governance and instinct that you'd prefer ANYONE in local government possess. At a certain point, stopping short of dictatorship, we probably need the talented foresight in strategic political positions that can tell everyone what is best for them and actually savvy enough to get the ball moving. Instead we are left with lowest common denominator hee-haws, with little imagination and the constant need to hearken back to some romanticized version of what we were in order to pander to the constituencies.

Originally Posted by Jonboy1983

...but anyone with the right mindset could at least get the ball rolling with that. Maybe they could use it to research and devise a real plan to fix our transit situation.

No doubt. I'm just not confident that anyone that would have been in line to benefit from this particular disbursement would have been capable of adapting that mindset. There are a lot of talented people working in various civic minded positions in this region. Transportation planning, which stands to be the most important, seems to have only patchwork concern and hollow, singular case study follow through.

Unsurprisingly the local print media is painting it as a huge loss for the city. If $50mil is going to be the difference between the disconnected, sprawl-promoting philosophies that we currently live with and we are unable to generate or appropriate that revenue? It's not because we are broke as a region and are just in need of federal money to help kick start that revolution, it's more than likely because a majority of people simply do not care. I'm not sure how to change that.

It probably needs to be done in a tightly focused area that could potentially target multiple socioeconomic groups. For all the grief people have misguidedly given the NSC, to even run a one mile loop targeting Chateau, Allegheny West, MWS, ED and/or Spring Garden/Hill, could potentially illustrate the benefits of an expanded metro system across all walks of life. After that you hope the shift becomes systemic and gradual. Instead of neighborhood groups pining for more surface parking and permit restrictions, the local leadership starts posturing for expanded service and stations. You'd also give the station real estate rights to PAT or whoever is running the service so that they can subsidize service fees through sponsorship and rental revenues.

Anything is better than the current strategy.

[Urbana]

.

[GeneW]

Originally Posted by Urbana

It seems like they are talking about the project marketed as Chateau Landing. Here are a couple of older articles about it:

http://www.bizjournals.com/pittsburgh/bl...ttsburgh+%28Pittsburgh+Business+Times%29

http://www.post-gazette.com/business/dev...ndustrial-locations/stories/201605130111

This is aproximately the site in question:

https://www.google.com/maps/place/829+Be...e0ac34df0ad!8m2!3d40.450473!4d-80.028498

Pushing a thousand units and a billion dollars, this will be huge. I only hope they make some effort to properly integrate it into the urban fabric, though I somehow doubt it. If done right this could be a big economic boon for the area.

I do have to say though - where the hell is this demand going to come from? I am not the closest watcher of the market, but this seems way too bullish - especially when they are dropping nearly a million dollars per unit. Count me as a skeptic.

As of 2010, Chateau had 11 residents so if we estimate at 1.5 people per unit, that's 1275 new residents or a population increase of 11,490%?

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by GeneW

As of 2010, Chateau had 11 residents so if we estimate at 1.5 people per unit, that's 1275 new residents or a population increase of 11,490%?

One thing's for sure...it will cease having the highest per-capita crime rate in the city.

[photoLith]

Does anyone know when they will ever finish restoring the Birmingham Bridge on the Southside? Its looked so ugly forever with all that wrap and sheets hanging all over it. I drove over it today and it looks like theyre done repainting and whatnot the eastern section of the bridge.

[AFW523]

Fairly Good News

Those numbers are nothing to sneeze at for a region that has been historically pretty insular. I know the Post Gazette was running a series recently highlighting relative new migrants to show how they have adapted to the city, but nothing will breed a comfort level quite like having a broad base of cultures to land in.

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by AFW523

Fairly Good News

Those numbers are nothing to sneeze at for a region that has been historically pretty insular. I know the Post Gazette was running a series recently highlighting relative new migrants to show how they have adapted to the city, but nothing will breed a comfort level quite like having a broad base of cultures to land in.

In a funny coincidence, the 24 year old Filipino cited in the article was being interviewed over the phone when I was taking the 87 home last night. I presumed it was a job interview or something it was taking so long. I guess they just used a few lines of it however.