Stadiums and Arenas of Canada part 2

[mistercorporate]

Originally Posted by Hackslack

How is it that TFC only gets 22k fans to their game in a 30k BMO capacity, yet I don't hear you saying how atrocious it has been? Explain to me why they have such crappy attendance? That's not even 3/4 full...??

Worry about you're own squad

lol, TFC is averaging 27.5k this year for league home games and they have 20 this year, today's home game is a 30k sellout, they're now selling standing room only tickets. Most of the other home games this year will likely be sellouts too based on current ticket sales months in advance. TFC hasn't had a single league game get to that low 22k# you quoted this season, only the Canadian Championship series which was actually a record high since they're not as followed as league games (and we don't have 8,000 Vancouver fans making the road trip), but if you're including them that puts the # of TFC home games that need to be sold at 25+ not including playoff or Champions League games. Hardly a fair comparison with a team that only has to sellout 9 home games tops.

I have an interest in the local sports scene, I'm not allowed to be informed on what goes on with the Raptors and Jays too am I? What planet do you live on. There are CFL fans in places like Regina and Edmonton reading and creating accounts on the the forum of one supporters group of TFC yet if I lookup something to answer someone's question then i have to worry about my own squad?? hahahaa

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by Nathan

Still don't really see the need for a joint bid... The US could host by themselves without even trying, and if the numbers you posted mean anything, it's just that; they don't need any tag-along Canadian cities.

I really don't see the benefit of hosting with them either... The whole point of hosting a world cup is to upgrade facilities/infrastructure across a country. Hosting with the US would put us down to our typical largest 3 cities, who are capable of getting such funding/improvements by hosting other large international events that the rest of the country's cities wouldn't be able to host.

Indeed. I agree. Some posters here were advocating for it and it wasn't something I necessarily agreed with.

Some were proposing a Canada-only bid (which likely wouldn't be strong enough) or a bid where Canada shared with the US (with Vancouver, Toronto, Montreal) being the obvious host cities. Regardless, support for the Copa in the US has been very strong and should serve as a reminder that the US can absolutely host a World Cup on their own - their 1994 hosting still holds the record for attendance and for average attendance.

If anything, Canada should attempt to host the CONCACAF Gold Cup prior to any fantasy bid of the World Cup. The Host for next July's Gold Cup is still TBD despite the fact that the US has held every Gold Cup to date. CONCACAF hosting requirements and attendance history should be attainable by a Canadian bid.

[elly63]

Originally Posted by JHikka

Some were proposing a Canada-only bid (which likely wouldn't be strong enough)

Care to explain why?

[king10]

Originally Posted by elly63

Care to explain why?

I dont see why it wouldnt be strong enough. CSA president is now CONCACAF pres and FIFA vp. He has his eyes set on a sole Canada bid.

[JHikka]

Don't get me wrong, i'd love a Canadian bid for the World Cup.

Originally Posted by king10

I dont see why it wouldnt be strong enough. CSA president is now CONCACAF pres and FIFA vp. He has his eyes set on a sole Canada bid.

I would surely hope Canada wouldn't be given hosting rights because CSA brass is high up in CONCACAF and FIFA. This is an organization trying to distance itself from backroom-dealings and influence-peddling.

Originally Posted by elly63

Care to explain why?

Facilities, mostly. FIFA requires all stadiums be at least 40K for group stage and 60K for QF and beyond.

Montagliani claims that BC Place, Commonwealth, BMO/Rogers, IGF, Tim Hortons, and TD Place can be expanded to accommodate these requirements (plus the 20,000 sq. ft. hospitality village each one requires) but who pays for it? Would the Feds commit hundreds of millions of dollars for temporary/permanent expansion of many of these stadiums? Would the cities?

Four stadiums would have to be 60K+ for Quarterfinals. Commonwealth seems like the only one capable of reaching that milestone easily. Can BC Place be expanded? Rogers Centre? Olympic Stadium won't be used. Can you tack on 30K to BMO? Can you tack on 30K to TD Place? At what cost?

IGF & Tim Hortons are expandable to 40K for group stage which is good. Mosaic should be good, as well.

So...

GROUP STAGE
IGF - Winnipeg
TH - Hamilton
MOSAIC - Regina
BC PLACE - Vancouver
COMMON - Edmonton
BMO - Toronto
TD - Ottawa
??? - ???

QUATERFINALS+BEYOND
COMMON - Edmonton
??? - ???
??? - ???
??? - ???

Of these stadiums, which four do you bump up to 60K?

Montagliani says Olympic Stadium will not be suitable and Montreal would need a new stadium for a World Cup bid. He claims ten stadiums suitable but I see 7, maybe 8 with a new stadium in Montreal. Where does the money come from for a new stadium in Montreal?

I appreciate his aspiration and I would wholly support a Canadian bid, I just see it as financially difficult at this point.

[snowmobile]

BMO Field grass looks pretty good tonight. The only blemish is that you can see where the uprights were located

[elly63]

Originally Posted by JHikka

Facilities, mostly. FIFA requires all stadiums be at least 40K for group stage and 60K for QF and beyond.

Montagliani claims that BC Place, Commonwealth, BMO/Rogers, IGF, Tim Hortons, and TD Place can be expanded to accommodate these requirements (plus the 20,000 sq. ft. hospitality village each one requires) but who pays for it? Would the Feds commit hundreds of millions of dollars for temporary/permanent expansion of many of these stadiums? Would the cities?

Montagliani says Olympic Stadium will not be suitable and Montreal would need a new stadium for a World Cup bid. He claims ten stadiums suitable but I see 7, maybe 8 with a new stadium in Montreal. Where does the money come from for a new stadium in Montreal?.

I've been saying this for over 10 years, we'll get a WC when the political will is there and that article actually used that term.

I think a Trudeau government would be all over this. It always pisses me off how some of the uninformed act like we are some sort of third world backwater and they also come up with arbitrary FIFA rules. There are no rules at FIFA, anything goes, as we'll soon find out with Qatar and Russia. After that FIFA will be begging for a stable WC in a North American time zone with the excuse of "growing" the game in Canada.

I'm not sure what Vic meant by "Montreal needs a new stadium". I would think he would include a complete overhaul of the iconic Olympic Stadium. And every new stadium is able to be expanded to 40k.

I think you'll find every WC has exceptions to FIFA's supposed "rules" which at their most stringent are more like guidelines.

[elly63]

Originally Posted by snowmobile

BMO Field grass looks pretty good tonight. The only blemish is that you can see where the uprights were located

[Hackslack]

Originally Posted by mistercorporate

lol, TFC is averaging 27.5k this year for league home games and they have 20 this year, today's home game is a 30k sellout, they're now selling standing room only tickets. Most of the other home games this year will likely be sellouts too based on current ticket sales months in advance. TFC hasn't had a single league game get to that low 22k# you quoted this season, only the Canadian Championship series which was actually a record high since they're not as followed as league games (and we don't have 8,000 Vancouver fans making the road trip), but if you're including them that puts the # of TFC home games that need to be sold at 25+ not including playoff or Champions League games. Hardly a fair comparison with a team that only has to sellout 9 home games tops.

I have an interest in the local sports scene, I'm not allowed to be informed on what goes on with the Raptors and Jays too am I? What planet do you live on. There are CFL fans in places like Regina and Edmonton reading and creating accounts on the the forum of one supporters group of TFC yet if I lookup something to answer someone's question then i have to worry about my own squad?? hahahaa

I definitely don't doubt you know your stuff about attendances for TFC and Argos... It's just when you say "slightly" better, I assume you mean 1k or so better, but in this case 22k is actually a 25% increase from their preseason game... Not something I'd put in the "slightly better" category... TFC are averaging 27.5k you say, put it in relative terms that's a little over 90% capacity, which is great in attendance, but would still be in the same category as an Argo 22.5k attendance which is slightly less than 90% BMO capacity for football... You definitely try to slag the Argos and buff up TFC, but really they are almost on par with each other... Whatever you tell yourself and makes you feel better whatever...

Oh and from this site: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Toronto_FC_season

It says their lowest attended league was 22k...

[mistercorporate]

Originally Posted by Hackslack

I definitely don't doubt you know your stuff about attendances for TFC and Argos... It's just when you say "slightly" better, I assume you mean 1k or so better, but in this case 22k is actually a 25% increase from their preseason game... Not something I'd put in the "slightly better" category... TFC are averaging 27.5k you say, put it in relative terms that's a little over 90% capacity, which is great in attendance, but would still be in the same category as an Argo 22.5k attendance which is slightly less than 90% BMO capacity for football... You definitely try to slag the Argos and buff up TFC, but really they are almost on par with each other... Whatever you tell yourself and makes you feel better whatever...

Oh and from this site: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Toronto_FC_season

It says their lowest attended league was 22k...

No it doesnt, it says lowest home game attendance (the Impact game was a Championship series match and not a league game). Infact i was being conservative, according to that link the league game average for TFC was 28k. My statement about the Argos game was that it wasnt going to be a sellout based on current ticket sales in answer to someones question, not a slagfest. Also, Ticats games are the highest attendance games for the Argos (due to thousands of Ticat travelling fans), not average attendance by any stretch.

[Prometheus]

According to the ticketmaster map, there is a significant number of unsold tickets for the Argo's home opener, with only four days to go. I have no clue how many tickets a team can move in just four days, but it seems a sell out (or even substantial sell out) is unlikely.

[Nite]

Originally Posted by Hackslack

I definitely don't doubt you know your stuff about attendances for TFC and Argos... It's just when you say "slightly" better, I assume you mean 1k or so better, but in this case 22k is actually a 25% increase from their preseason game... Not something I'd put in the "slightly better" category... TFC are averaging 27.5k you say, put it in relative terms that's a little over 90% capacity, which is great in attendance, but would still be in the same category as an Argo 22.5k attendance which is slightly less than 90% BMO capacity for football... You definitely try to slag the Argos and buff up TFC, but really they are almost on par with each other... Whatever you tell yourself and makes you feel better whatever...

Oh and from this site: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Toronto_FC_season

It says their lowest attended league was 22k...

After tonight sellout, TFC is now averaging 28.2K or 94% capacity

[snowmobile]

TD Place Arena looking nice tonight for UFC, although apparently it is very hot inside the the arena tonight

[Prometheus]

Some video of the newly-installed LED ribbon at Commonwealth Stadium after a touchdown during Saturday's pre-season game: https://twitter.com/ChrisScheetz/status/744290041078259713

[king10]

What was the deal in ottawa? Heard the AC wasnt on.

[Hackslack]

Originally Posted by mistercorporate

No it doesnt, it says lowest home game attendance (the Impact game was a Championship series match and not a league game). Infact i was being conservative, according to that link the league game average for TFC was 28k. My statement about the Argos game was that it wasnt going to be a sellout based on current ticket sales in answer to someones question, not a slagfest. Also, Ticats games are the highest attendance games for the Argos (due to thousands of Ticat travelling fans), not average attendance by any stretch.

I must have read it out of context then by the way you said "sales have been atrocious" and the opener "will only be slightly better than the preseason" and then going on to say it will be 22k, 37.5% more than the preseason game, with half being Ticat fans. Which tells me that there will only be 11k Argo fans, which is less than the average home attendance last season where they played 4 home games on the road.... Your sincere lack of respect for the franchise and the fans is somewhat insulting. I guess we'll see how the support for the franchise is for the opener.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by elly63

And every new stadium is able to be expanded to 40k.

Canada has plenty of stadiums that can reach 40K but very few that can reach that next tier of 60K+ needed for the end-competition of the World Cup.

Canada could host the CONCACAF Gold Cup next year with little-to-no upgrades needed at any of the facilities. Hosting that event well would do wonders for a potential World Cup bid like the current Copa America is for the US.

[Jets4Life]

Originally Posted by Daveography

Rogers Place:



More here:
http://skyrisecities.com/forum/threads/e...katz-group-hok.23802/page-6#post-1106983

This has to be the ugliest building I have ever seen. The MTS Centre looks 100 times better.

[mistercorporate]

Originally Posted by JHikka

Canada has plenty of stadiums that can reach 40K but very few that can reach that next tier of 60K+ needed for the end-competition of the World Cup.

Canada could host the CONCACAF Gold Cup next year with little-to-no upgrades needed at any of the facilities. Hosting that event well would do wonders for a potential World Cup bid like the current Copa America is for the US.

Canada has already hosted every other major international soccer tournament save for the world cup (u20, womens, etc.). The only thing left is the biggie. We have stadiums that can host most of the games already and even BMO Field could be temporarily scaled upto 50-60k for relatively little cost.

[king10]

FIFA does not require minimum 40,000 seat stadiums for the group stages. The minimum number of seats is 35,000. Russia will have two 35,000 seat stadiums.

Also not sure where you're getting this 60,000 minimum for QFs. All 4 of Russias QF Stadiums seat 45,000.

Russia only has two 60,000 plus stadiums. They will be used for the semis and finals.

Canada does not need minimum 40,000 for group stages and minimum 60,000 for QFS as you stated. If they mimic russia, 35,000 is the minimum for group stages. 45,000 for the quarter finals. Two 60,000 plus stadiums for the semis and finals.

Russia only has two stadiums larger than 47,000. Canada would have at least 4.

Capacity wouldnt be an issue. Also the use of temporary seats isn't an issue. Brazil had 25,000 temporary seats in use for arena Corinthian which hosted semi finals. South Africa used temp seats as well.

Hypothetically you could run a tournament with a variation of these venues.

1.New Halifax Stadium 35,000 (10,000 temp) (tied with 10th CFL franchise)
2.New Quebec City Stadium 35,000 (10,000 temp) (Optional Venue depending on funding)

3.THF 35,000 (10,000 temp)
4.TD Place 35,000 (10,000 temp)
5.BMO Field 40,000 (10,000 temp)
6.New Mosaic 40,000 (7,000 temp)
7.IGF 40,000 (7,000 temp)
8.New Calgary Stadium 40,000 (10,000 temp)

9.BC Place 55,000
10.Commonwealth 65,000 (9,000 temp in endzone with no perm seats)
11.Rogers Centre (55,000) or NEW Toronto Stadium 70,000 (30,000 temp seats) to be used for Argos or TFC afterwards
12.New Olympic Stadium (75,000)

Thats 11 or 12 venues depending on whether you build a new stadium in Quebec City for a possible CFL expansion. The only major question would be what to do with the Finals venue in Toronto or Montreal which would have to be a new build. The Quebec government has been mulling a major reno of Olympic stadium so extensive renos could make it the finals venue and Toronto wouldn't need any new stadiums, just use Rogers and BMO.