CHICAGO | Highrise Projects & Construction, v7

[emathias]

Originally Posted by SamInTheLoop

Here's to hoping that clunker of a design (how drab and banal) is not the final design
...

I like this design better than either of the other examples you gave. It would be nice to have a glassier building in the area. I live across the street from this.

[Chi-Sky21]

Originally Posted by SamInTheLoop

^ Yes, and as I've stated before - it is indeed trend-chasing. I'm telling you - I know some of the conversations that are being had, and they are not driven by analysis and number-crunching and and actual hard thinking (or the location decisions you're referencing wold have turned out differently) It's driven largely by 'the trend of the day!', 'look what Google did!', the 'cool, whiz, bang' factor, 'all the millennials bike to work anyway', 'we've got to be perceived as hip and cool and on-trend', etc etc etc.

I'm not making this up. These are the motivating factors. It's actually if you think about it a very much trend and emotionally-driven thing.......it's also got a quite ephemeral air to it (although who knows how long it will be before those that made these big mistakes will 1) realize it, and 2) admit it.......these can be intractable things and difficult to own up to and walk back from, for certain.....

You know the conversations...please..you are starting to sound like Trump...they are not chasing trends. They want a building all to themselves. They have very specific needs for the building, so would need a new building. I bet it was much cheaper to do that in the west loop than anywhere east of the river. So i would say that it is being driven by analysis and numbers after all. You think McDonalds just haphazardly moves its HQ that it has been in for decades without thinking it through?

[harryc]

06-08








06-14
morning


afternoon

[Vlajos]

Originally Posted by k1052

I have yet to hear a convincing argument via "actual hard thinking" about how these West Loop locations that are the same distance from transit as other large employment centers (East Loop, River North) are such a mistake. Is 600 W Chicago empty or have those tenants just not owned up to their errors yet?

Yes the West Loop is trendy but given that the actual distances involved are comparable to other large submarkets downtown I'm not seeing how that's a bad thing.

You haven't heard? Everyone is moving out of 600 W. Chicago. It will be 100% vacant soon.

This just may be the stupidest conversation I've seen here. As has been stated repeatedly, the new McDonalds HQ site has as much access to public transit as any office in the east loop. It is getting beyond silly.

[Kngkyle]

Originally Posted by Vlajos

You haven't heard? Everyone is moving out of 600 W. Chicago. It will be 100% vacant soon.

This just may be the stupidest conversation I've seen here. As has been stated repeatedly, the new McDonalds HQ site has as much access to public transit as any office in the east loop. It is getting beyond silly.

Not entirely true. The majority of millennial workers who commute via transit will either be on the red, blue, or brown lines. The East Loop is much closer to 2/3 of those lines without an annoying transfer. Plus the East Loop has underground pedway access connecting to all CTA rail lines. But yes, from the Metra terminals it is still a hike. One that shuttle buses are used for today.. but that's no different than the West Loop. The transit center of Chicago is certainly not Union Station.. it is much further north and east than that - perhaps Block 37.

I would also argue that the East Loop has more to offer in terms of it's surrounding attractions as well. So it's not just transit that makes the East Loop generally a better location for corporate offices.

[rlw777]

Originally Posted by Chi-Sky21

You know the conversations...please..you are starting to sound like Trump...they are not chasing trends. They want a building all to themselves. They have very specific needs for the building, so would need a new building. I bet it was much cheaper to do that in the west loop than anywhere east of the river. So i would say that it is being driven by analysis and numbers after all. You think McDonalds just haphazardly moves its HQ that it has been in for decades without thinking it through?

I think there is good argument for HARPO not being a logical location for McD's move from the suburbs. Off the top of my head for example there's the proposal for 645 W Madison which is closer to public transit and adjacent to the freeway both of which would be slightly more advantageous for a move from suburbia. There isn't a building to demo in the location which lowers cost and speeds up development. there are essentially zero nimbys to deal with and the location creates a great opportunity to advertise the brand on the Kennedy.

[k1052]

Originally Posted by rlw777

I think there is good argument for HARPO not being a logical location for McD's move from the suburbs. Off the top of my head for example there's the proposal for 645 W Madison which is closer to public transit and adjacent to the freeway both of which would be slightly more advantageous for a move from suburbia. There isn't a building to demo in the location which lowers cost and speeds up development. there are essentially zero nimbys to deal with and the location creates a great opportunity to advertise the brand on the Kennedy.

I'm of the mind that the company doesn't want to make it easier for people to commute in from the suburbs. It's not impossible by any means (certainly not to the extent people here are claiming) but the barrier is definitely higher and will prompt some amount of current employees to take buyouts. In the context of changing corporate culture it's entirely logical.

[Vlajos]

Originally Posted by Kngkyle

Not entirely true. The majority of millennial workers who commute via transit will either be on the red, blue, or brown lines. The East Loop is much closer to 2/3 of those lines without an annoying transfer. Plus the East Loop has underground pedway access connecting to all CTA rail lines. But yes, from the Metra terminals it is still a hike. One that shuttle buses are used for today.. but that's no different than the West Loop. The transit center of Chicago is certainly not Union Station.. it is much further north and east than that - perhaps Block 37.

I would also argue that the East Loop has more to offer in terms of it's surrounding attractions as well. So it's not just transit that makes the East Loop generally a better location for corporate offices.

Except the East Loop has had some of the highest office vacancy rates in the CBD in recent years. The most recent report I have seen has East Loop vacancy at 13.6% vs. overall CBD vacancy of 11.5%. The 13.6% is the highest of all the submarkets. The market seems to disagree with you.

[LouisVanDerWright]

Originally Posted by Chi-Sky21

You know the conversations...please..you are starting to sound like Trump...they are not chasing trends. They want a building all to themselves. They have very specific needs for the building, so would need a new building. I bet it was much cheaper to do that in the west loop than anywhere east of the river. So i would say that it is being driven by analysis and numbers after all. You think McDonalds just haphazardly moves its HQ that it has been in for decades without thinking it through?

Ding ding ding. We have a winner! McDonalds likely shopped around to all the proposed options including the office buildings going up on Franklin, older existing like Aon, and new econoboxes like 645 Madison and Harpo ( really what this is, just disguised as a "hip warehouse"). They probably quickly discovered that it is very difficult to shoehorn special uses like say a test kitchen, major conferencing facilities capable of handling the full assembly of a F500 companies employees or customers, etc. into an existing building or even just multi tenant office high-rises in general. The Harpo, and to an extent, Google site offer the most similar and flexible urban alternative to the suburban campuses these companies are used to. The gross rents are probably equally similar. It's fairly obvious why these big companies are attracted to the likes of 1k Fulton, Merch Mart, and even loft nouveau like Harpo. These companies are just throwing darts, they are looking for the most flexible space to their business models and, largely thanks to Sterling Bay, have discovered that these alternative office spaces and locations offer that flexible for less rent. Similar motives led these companies to the suburbs in the first place as modern corporate culture dawned and being able to accommodate their campus needs is crucial for them to return.

Also, if you are a trophy tower landlord you probably don't want your building smelling like transfats all the time either. I don't even want to know what the code would be for black iron in a multi tent office high-rise would be either.

[mattshoe]

Does anybody know when 465 N Park is going to break ground? I just walked by and they were moving dirt around

[Jibba]

Originally Posted by SamInTheLoop

Here's to hoping that clunker of a design (how drab and banal) is not the final design (since this did show up in a retail brokerage's '—-slinging' marketing schtick-pack (where Crain's picked it up from), I'm actually somewhat hopeful that it is just a placeholder...

If this is the real design, I wouldn't really be disappointed. While it's far from sophisticated, the treatment of the lower levels is quite nice (and they are the levels that leave the greatest impression to passers-by). There are good reliefs in the mass, and it makes a pleasant (albeit slightly clunky) progression from street to roof. It's also devoid of any hackneyed historical references, and that's always a plus.

And this

Originally Posted by SamInTheLoop

retail brokerage's '—-slinging' marketing schtick-pack

is one of the best phrases on this board.

[Jibba]

Originally Posted by harryc

06-08
[IMG=4]

Very 60s Lake Shore Drive.

[SamInTheLoop]

Originally Posted by Vlajos

You haven't heard? Everyone is moving out of 600 W. Chicago. It will be 100% vacant soon.

This just may be the stupidest conversation I've seen here. As has been stated repeatedly, the new McDonalds HQ site has as much access to public transit as any office in the east loop. It is getting beyond silly.

Lol. Ok, Galileo - go ahead and run the transit score numbers (on walkscore) - Harpo site vs, oh, I don't know - let's say, one Prudential Plaza (again and for the record I am not arguing in favor of East Loop, as I'd argue more in favor of anywhere between Central Loop and Near West Loop). Please do post your findings here. Why don't we go right ahead, diving in head first and put some hard stats and algos to actual work on this.....

[emathias]

Originally Posted by SamInTheLoop

Lol. Ok, Galileo - go ahead and run the transit score numbers (on walkscore) - Harpo site vs, oh, I don't know - let's say, one Prudential Plaza (again and for the record I am not arguing in favor of East Loop, as I'd argue more in favor of anywhere between Central Loop and Near West Loop). Please do post your findings here. Why don't we go right ahead, diving in head first and put some hard stats and algos to actual work on this.....

Harpo:
96 Walk Score
84 Transit Score
89 Bike Score

1 Pru:
98 Walk Score
100 Transit Score
84 Bike Score

[emathias]

I'm disappointed in the color of the bricks on the HoJo tower. The original rendering put them as grayish, but in person they're very much beige/yellowish, not that different from the painted concrete of many other buildings in River North from the last boom. The latest photos don't fully reflect that coloring.

[SamInTheLoop]

Originally Posted by k1052

The article indicates Lennar doesn't want to seek a zoning bump. Either they're not comfortable with the process here or the alderman has already shook his head at it. Given the several towers under construction immediately adjacent to the site I'm guessing it's the former.

Very interesting if true. It's not that difficult to think that a rare developer with high ethical standards (do not know that that applies to Lennar) might not be comfortable at all with the actual (opaque and riddled with obscene corruption) process of seeking and obtaining a change of zoning in Chicago........let's see if they're swiftly rewarded for any such standards with a spot downzoning.....

[SamInTheLoop]

Originally Posted by emathias

Harpo:
96 Walk Score
84 Transit Score
89 Bike Score

1 Pru:
98 Walk Score
100 Transit Score
84 Bike Score

100-84......not that close, all things considered....

[the urban politician]

^ I'm sure I'm about to get —-slapped in a serious manner for saying this, but I actually want to see some shorter rental buildings downtown.

I'd like to see some smaller towers in Streeterville, for example, or the South Loop.

Now again, God endowed me with enough reason to recognize that canyons and darkness make the human species a wonderful cowering specimen, but you're not going to get massive towers until you first fill in all the vacant/parking lots.

Despite the BOOM River North is experiencing, I fall back on my same old feelings about this: I'd rather see 10 shorter buildings with 70 units each than 2 massive buildings with 350 units each. They end up making for a more desirable streetscape, and Chicago needs to be a desirable place to live more than anything right now, given the ongoing onslaught of bad press, midwest-bashing, etc etc we've seen for the past few decades..

[SamInTheLoop]

Originally Posted by rlw777

I think there is good argument for HARPO not being a logical location for McD's move from the suburbs. Off the top of my head for example there's the proposal for 645 W Madison which is closer to public transit and adjacent to the freeway both of which would be slightly more advantageous for a move from suburbia. There isn't a building to demo in the location which lowers cost and speeds up development. there are essentially zero nimbys to deal with and the location creates a great opportunity to advertise the brand on the Kennedy.

No kidding - 645 (Hines/bKL project) would have been (among many other sites) a far superior selection.....

[Chi-Sky21]

Originally Posted by SamInTheLoop

100-84......not that close, all things considered....

OR

Harpo 89.6
Pru 94

if averaged...that would TRULY be all things considered