Speech pattern and typographical variations across Canada

[kwoldtimer]

Has anybody ever actually received an invitation to a formal event that specified "fancy dress"? I have not, in either Canada nor in my years living in the States. Why would anyone not use "formal", if they expect invitees to attend in formal wear?

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

Has anybody ever actually received an invitation to a formal event that specified "fancy dress"? I have not, in either Canada nor in my years living in the States. Why would anyone not use "formal", if they expect invitees to attend in formal wear?

Maybe not written down but in casual speech, sure.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Maybe not written down but in casual speech, sure.

I agree... it's a colloquial term that wouldn't likely find its way into an invitation. I think the term "fancy dress" is probably used with a healthy dose of irony.

[Loco101]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

Has anybody ever actually received an invitation to a formal event that specified "fancy dress"? I have not, in either Canada nor in my years living in the States. Why would anyone not use "formal", if they expect invitees to attend in formal wear?

I've seen:

formal
semi-formal
business-casual
black tie

But where I live not many people ever dress up unless it's a fancier wedding and maybe for a funeral.

[kool maudit]

fancy dress is costumes, no? like for a carnival or hallowe'en...

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by Loco101

I've seen:

formal
semi-formal
business-casual
black tie

But where I live not many people ever dress up unless it's a fancier wedding and maybe for a funeral.

I find "semi-formal" and "business casual" (along with "smart casual") to be too vague to be helpful, but I suspect that using the old "informal" (business attire) and "casual" (jacket but no tie for gentlemen) would confuse people even more.

Re funerals, I haven't seen anyone wear a baseball cap and flip-flops to a visitation or funeral service yet, but I wouldn't be surprised to hear of it happening. It's one place where "old judgey me" still rears his head - to dress other than one's best for a funeral seems to me to convey disrespect for the deceased.

[SignalHillHiker]

Same, although sweaters without a collared shirt underneath seem to be very common at funerals here these days.

The wake can be more casual, especially if they're being waked at home. That's gone off the rails for some people - Mom's yoga instructor had her mother's body on display in the living room during one of their classes. She found it awkward and uncomfortable.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker

Same, although sweaters without a collared shirt underneath seem to be very common at funerals here these days.

The wake can be more casual, especially if they're being waked at home. That's gone off the rails for some people - Mom's yoga instructor had her mother's body on display in the living room during one of their classes. She found it awkward and uncomfortable.

"Wakes" are a bit different from the "visitation" that's more usual in this part of the country. It would normally be in a funeral home, with the casket (open or closed) in a position for viewing. The tone can be fairly social, especially when the deceased has passed at a ripe old age, but it's less "homely" than a wake - the immediate family often sets up a "receiving line" leading to the casket, for example, and alcohol would never be served. I think people used to an at-home wake might find a standard visitation a bit stiff and cold (so to speak!).

[SignalHillHiker]

Yeah, visitations are the same here. I think they're typically for people from the neighbourhood and acquaintances, business associates, and the like. The most recent funeral in our family was my aunt (my mother's side). Mom hadn't seen many of the people at the visitation since she was a teenager, and every conversation was about the Quidi Vidi neighbourhood, how it's changed, and catching up. It's definitely not something the family really wanted to do, it's more of an obligation. After that was over, we all went to her condo to have a wake (minus the deceased, of course, so not really a proper one) - drinking, sharing stories, eating the shitload of food everyone had dropped off for my cousins over the previous days, some singing, lots of laughs, etc. I'm sure the family wasn't thrilled to be doing that either, but there's no pretense at least - heels off, hair down, no filter.

[rousseau]

Originally Posted by Andy6

8. A flapjack
UK: A flat oatmeal snack
US: A type of pancake

US, would use only when affecting US vernacular (but maybe it's changing as "fries" for "chips" used to be the same sort of thing, and other US food terms like "frosting" for "icing" and "stuffing" for "dressing" (in turkeys) have come from nowhere to supplant the Canadian terms in my own short lifetime).

Interesting. But isn't it "the icing on the cake," not "the frosting on the cake"? Or would Americans simply use the former as the colloquial saying, while still using the latter when making or eating a cake?

This kind of dual usage still happens. An immediate example that comes to mind is "pound the pavement" to describe working hard at finding a job. We in North America say "sidewalk" for the pedestrian passageway at the side of the street, and I'm sure most of us don't know that "pavement" is the original term for "sidewalk," but we still use this term.

Actually, we use it, but I'd bet that most North Americans wouldn't precisely understand what it means, assuming it vaguely connotes running around on the pavement aka asphalt on the streets to find a job.

Originally Posted by Andy6

Both. I have a certificate somewhere saying I am the first one and we still use the term a lot, even if not very often to name our profession (e.g. in terms like "solicitor-client privilege"). But there used to be lots of signs saying "No Soliciting" which used to be what you'd put up to ward off door-to-door salesmen rather than door-to-door lawyers.

Just yesterday I saw a sign in a shop that said "no solicitation." What I'm thinking is that in Canada we understand the noun indicating the action to refer to cold calls in the field of sales, but the noun indicating the person ("solicitor") isn't generally associated with a person who does cold calls.

So, signs saying "no soliciting" and "no solicitation," but none saying "no solicitors." Though I'll be on the lookout for the latter now!

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by rousseau

Interesting. But isn't it "the icing on the cake," not "the frosting on the cake"? Or would Americans simply use the former as the colloquial saying, while still using the latter when making or eating a cake?

This kind of dual usage still happens. An immediate example that comes to mind is "pound the pavement" to describe working hard at finding a job. We in North America say "sidewalk" for the pedestrian passageway at the side of the street, and I'm sure most of us don't know that "pavement" is the original term for "sidewalk," but we still use this term.

Actually, we use it, but I'd bet that most North Americans wouldn't precisely understand what it means, assuming it vaguely connotes running around on the pavement aka asphalt on the streets to find a job.


Just yesterday I saw a sign in a shop that said "no solicitation." What I'm thinking is that in Canada we understand the noun indicating the action to refer to cold calls in the field of sales, but the noun indicating the person ("solicitor") isn't generally associated with a person who does cold calls.

So, signs saying "no soliciting" and "no solicitation," but none saying "no solicitors." Though I'll be on the lookout for the latter now!

I think both are used. By the way, is icing/frosting one of those UK vs USA usage things? I thought that they were two different things - icing being like a glaze as opposed to a whipped frosting.

Likewise, I always understood that "stuffing" (prepared inside the bird) and "dressing" (made outside the bird) were two different things, although people may mix them up.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by rousseau

This kind of dual usage still happens. An immediate example that comes to mind is "pound the pavement" to describe working hard at finding a job. We in North America say "sidewalk" for the pedestrian passageway at the side of the street, and I'm sure most of us don't know that "pavement" is the original term for "sidewalk," but we still use this term.

There is also the fantastically clear "footpath".

[rousseau]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

I think both are used. By the way, is icing/frosting one of those UK vs USA usage things? I thought that they were two different things - icing being like a glaze as opposed to a whipped frosting.

Huh. I have never heard "frosting on the cake" before, but it gets five times as many Google hits as "icing on the cake." Either that's an idiosyncratic oversight on my part, or maybe Canadians really do say the British "icing on the cake" more?

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

Likewise, I always understood that "stuffing" (prepared inside the bird) and "dressing" (made outside the bird) were two different things, although people may mix them up.

Interesting. I've only ever heard "stuffing," and 🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵 up my ears at the use of "dressing" whenever I encounter it, as in my experience it tends to be used by people of British lineage.

I've never heard or been aware of a distinction between being inside and outside the bird.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by rousseau

Huh. I have never heard "frosting on the cake" before, but it gets five times as many Google hits as "icing on the cake." Either that's an idiosyncratic oversight on my part, or maybe Canadians really do say the British "icing on the cake" more?


Interesting. I've only ever heard "stuffing," and 🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵 up my ears at the use of "dressing" whenever I encounter it, as in my experience it tends to be used by people of British lineage.

I've never heard or been aware of a distinction between being inside and outside the bird.

Well, that's what my mother told me anyway.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by rousseau

Interesting. I've only ever heard "stuffing," and 🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵 up my ears at the use of "dressing" whenever I encounter it, as in my experience it tends to be used by people of British lineage.

I've never heard or been aware of a distinction between being inside and outside the bird.

Stuffing for me too. Though I've heard dressing too and assumed it's a British thing. Some packaging seems to have the word dressing on it if I recall.

Then again, pseudo-mayonnaise like Miracle Whip is also referred to as salad dressing.

So there you go.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Stuffing for me too. Though I've heard dressing too and assumed it's a British thing. Some packaging seems to have the word dressing on it if I recall.

Then again, pseudo-mayonnaise like Miracle Whip is also referred to as salad dressing.

So there you go.

Linked in some way, I imagine, to "dressed" meats, although I can't think what the connection would be.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by rousseau

Huh. I have never heard "frosting on the cake" before, but it gets five times as many Google hits as "icing on the cake." Either that's an idiosyncratic oversight on my part, or maybe Canadians really do say the British "icing on the cake" more?

.

Icing on the cake for me too. Always. Frosting in the cake sounds like it is in the realm of possibility, and I would understand it.

But it sounds foreign.

Like when people use "meant to" instead of "supposed to".

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Icing on the cake for me too. Always. Frosting in the cake sounds like it is in the realm of possibility, and I would understand it.

But it sounds foreign.

Like when people use "meant to" instead of "supposed to".

I wonder what the labels say on the tins of ready-made stuff from Betty Crocker. I'd be willing to bet that it's described as "frosting", because to me that's totally what it is. I've also never heard anyone talk about "whipped icing" - it seems to me that it must be "whipped frosting".

[SignalHillHiker]

I'll ask Nan and get back to ya, KW.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker

I'll ask Nan and get back to ya, KW.

She'll not steer you wrong!