Chinese Investors Driving Up Metro Housing Prices

[ssiguy]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Funny thing about Britain, Hong Kong, Singapore and Australia: they also recognize foreign ownership as part of the problem, and they are fed up. It's only BC that lets speculators in, since Victoria loves the donations... also, because we're too broke to exist without them.

Other nation's actions and Canada. BC, and Vancouver's inactions will add yet more fuel to the fire.

Just because those countries are clamping down on Chinese crooks in the real estate game doesn't mean they will all of a sudden lose interest in purchasing a fast passport. All it means is that their options have diminished and they will funnel their money into one of the few places left...........Canada.

When we are talking about Canada we are essentially just saying BC. Even in Toronto their effects on the market are irrelevant compared to their domination of the market in Vancouver.

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by logicbomb

You mean, folks that are not in the market should RENT AND INVEST elsewhere because the reality is that you aren’t getting anywhere while dropping 1.5k+ for rent here. That's already 40%-80% of peoples paychecks here just on RENT.

The ideal plan would be to move elsewhere and save up to invest here but the price of 1+ mil homes will become commonplace by the end of the decade. Likewise, apartments and townhomes will be reaching near 1mil anywhere west of Langley.

There is no stopping the tsunami of foreign capital. Truth is that CANADIANS will be forced to migrate out of the City as they cannot compete with the transnational elites (mostly from Asia) and their shaddy source of money. I can wholeheartedly blame the Asian Investors.

That is a great summary that rather "hits the old nail on the head."

[Vin]

As according to Bob Rennie in his "rant":

White men over 55 driving up housing prices in Vancouver (And I'm sure this isn't a racist statement)


http://vancouversun.com/business/real-es...ns-vancouver-real-estate-guru-bob-rennie

[logicbomb]

Originally Posted by Vin

As according to Bob Rennie in his "rant":

White men over 55 driving up housing prices in Vancouver (And I'm sure this isn't a racist statement)


http://vancouversun.com/business/real-es...ns-vancouver-real-estate-guru-bob-rennie

What a joke. The guy is pretty much a developer so it comes as no surprise he'll cite domestic "demand" as the primary reason for such gross unaffordability. That explains why the price of houses are seeing 20-40% jumps annually despite the average income stagnating.

My friend lives near the Kingsley Estates developments in Steveston and saw the shit show that ensued on day 1 of the pre-sale. They had charter buses dropping off people. Sure enough, it made the news but lacked the part where a flood of buyers inundated the area. These townhomes were selling for 1.2 million. 1.2 million!

http://www.news1130.com/2016/06/02/prospective-buyers-shut-out-of-townhome-sales-in-richmond/

This is happen all over the area as well as domestic buyers are being shutout in lieu of foreign buyers.

[retro_orange]

Originally Posted by Vin

As according to Bob Rennie in his "rant":

White men over 55 driving up housing prices in Vancouver (And I'm sure this isn't a racist statement)


http://vancouversun.com/business/real-es...ns-vancouver-real-estate-guru-bob-rennie

My reply in the vancouver house prices thread:

Bob Rennie will say anything to make locals feel guilty about wanting to slow foreign cash coming in because he benefits from it more than anyone in Vancouver. It wouldn't surprise me if these investors and their companies' pay him to make these publicity stunts in order to keep the misinformation flowing.

Please check out and sign this petition at The Parliament of Canada: https://petitions.parl.gc.ca/en/Peti...Petition=e-281

I urge you guys to check out and sign the petition

[casper]

Originally Posted by Vin

As according to Bob Rennie in his "rant":

White men over 55 driving up housing prices in Vancouver (And I'm sure this isn't a racist statement)


http://vancouversun.com/business/real-es...ns-vancouver-real-estate-guru-bob-rennie

I don't think he said "White people over 55" I think he said people over 55 own $197 billion in mortgage-free properties and people over 75 own $66 billion in mortgage free properties.

Yes, encouraging more construction of condos and highrises will benefit him and others who sell Condos. That said, I still think more development in Vancouver is part of the solution.

[cornholio]

He did make a good point about reciprocal treatment though. Canadians can't buy property in China. Not even Canadians permanently living and working in China can buy property there. Like he said Canada should embrace reciprocal treatment and not allow any Chinese citizens to buy property here, and that includes permanent residents with Chinese citizenship. Like in Australia those that cant own property here should be given a set amount of time to liquidate.

I do think this is actually the fairest thing to do. Treat citizens of other countries here the same way their countries treat Canadian citizens there when it comes to real-estate purchases. You cant call this policy racist or xenophobic or anything and it makes logical senses.

Thanks Bob.

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by cornholio

He did make a good point about reciprocal treatment though. Canadians can't buy property in China. Not even Canadians permanently living and working in China can buy property there. Like he said Canada should embrace reciprocal treatment and not allow any Chinese citizens to buy property here, and that includes permanent residents with Chinese citizenship. Like in Australia those that cant own property here should be given a set amount of time to liquidate.

I do think this is actually the fairest thing to do. Treat citizens of other countries here the same way their countries treat Canadian citizens there when it comes to real-estate purchases. You cant call this policy racist or xenophobic or anything and it makes logical senses.

Thanks Bob.

May I add a +1 agreement here? This seems the only way to go.

[Max.]

Originally Posted by cornholio

He did make a good point about reciprocal treatment though. Canadians can't buy property in China. Not even Canadians permanently living and working in China can buy property there. Like he said Canada should embrace reciprocal treatment and not allow any Chinese citizens to buy property here, and that includes permanent residents with Chinese citizenship. Like in Australia those that cant own property here should be given a set amount of time to liquidate.

I do think this is actually the fairest thing to do. Treat citizens of other countries here the same way their countries treat Canadian citizens there when it comes to real-estate purchases. You cant call this policy racist or xenophobic or anything and it makes logical senses.

Thanks Bob.

That's totally wrong. Foreigner can buy property in China, and even has better treatment than Chinese. For example, Shanghai & Beijing both has the house quote policy which do not allow Chinese outside Shanghai & Beijing buy a house unless they work 5 straight years in the city. Foreigner do not have this regulation. There are some Chinese even willing to use their money to buy a citizenship in Oceania, Caribbean & Africa countries because they want buy a house in these cities.

[csbvan]

We're making news in Australia now too:

http://www.sbs.com.au/news/dateline/story/chinas-millionaire-migration

[retro_orange]

Originally Posted by csbvan

We're making news in Australia now too:

http://www.sbs.com.au/news/dateline/story/chinas-millionaire-migration

Those women in the video make me cringe. Total lack of social awareness.

[giallo]

Originally Posted by Max.

That's totally wrong. Foreigner can buy property in China, and even has better treatment than Chinese. For example, Shanghai & Beijing both has the house quote policy which do not allow Chinese outside Shanghai & Beijing buy a house unless they work 5 straight years in the city. Foreigner do not have this regulation. There are some Chinese even willing to use their money to buy a citizenship in Oceania, Caribbean & Africa countries because they want buy a house in these cities.

I was just going to say this. I could buy an apartment or business in Shanghai tomorrow if I wanted to.


A new series by Vice about the real estate mania in Metro Vancouver

• Video Link


• Video Link

[logicbomb]

Originally Posted by giallo

I was just going to say this. I could buy an apartment or business in Shanghai tomorrow if I wanted to.


A new series by Vice about the real estate mania in Metro Vancouver

It's hilarious to see people sulking and taking it all in the rear. It's like being on a sinking ship and being totally content on using a tiny cup to scoop out water... They need to organize, demonstrate and head to the streets.

Every millennial seems intent on just leaving and the overbearing sentiment is that the City will empty out. No, a more affluent person will take their place as there's an abundant of people that's hell bent on moving here.

To me, moving to other cities poses a hazard too because Canada is a desirable nation to grow up in and we will continue to be the prime destination for wealthy immigrants. People will laugh at me for saying this but the same thing will happen in every major City in Canada. Yes, even Winnipeg.

[cornholio]

Originally Posted by logicbomb

It's hilarious to see people sulking and taking it all in the rear. It's like being on a sinking ship and being totally content on using a tiny cup to scoop out water... They need to organize, demonstrate and head to the streets.

Every millennial seems intent on just leaving and the overbearing sentiment is that the City will empty out. No, a more affluent person will take their place as there's an abundant of people that's hell bent on moving here.

To me, moving to other cities poses a hazard too because Canada is a desirable nation to grow up in and we will continue to be the prime destination for wealthy immigrants. People will laugh at me for saying this but the same thing will happen in every major City in Canada. Yes, even Winnipeg.

This is what I don't get. I don't find Canada particularly special, but I say this in comparison to Europe. In my case healthcare is significantly worse in Canada, education has also been going down hill in Canada and I would confidently say is worse then my original country (they are killing it with the international students buying their way in), crime rates murder rates are higher in Canada, inequality is significantly higher, infrastructure is significantly worse in Canada, and you have less freedoms in Canada in compassion to my home country (not the case for some with some other EU countries). Actually the only and I mean only benefit I see my self in Canada is nature (and for me that is huge, I hunt, I fish, I camp, I climb. In Europe I cant take a truck, load it with my chainsaw, my guns, my ATV and go into the middle of nowhere and do what I want with no other people anywhere close). Well that and slightly higher earning potential in most fields, though IT is starting to eclipse Vancouver in salaries, in my country, salaries get higher as you head west and north in EU. But I do understand there are lots of overpopulated pretty crummy places to live in Asia / Africa and South America (spend lots of time in Brazil my self). But at the end of the day Canada does have a immigration quota and everyone literally can't come here.

Originally Posted by Max.

That's totally wrong. Foreigner can buy property in China, and even has better treatment than Chinese. For example, Shanghai & Beijing both has the house quote policy which do not allow Chinese outside Shanghai & Beijing buy a house unless they work 5 straight years in the city. Foreigner do not have this regulation. There are some Chinese even willing to use their money to buy a citizenship in Oceania, Caribbean & Africa countries because they want buy a house in these cities.

As far as I am aware you can only lease. Am I wrong? And before this year foreigners could only own 1 property they lived in (recent change I guess). Now that the Chinese economy is primed for systematic failure along with its asset bubbles in danger of deflation they seemed to have relaxed the restrictions.

No one in China has full ownership of a residential property and the land on which it is built. Residential land is usually leased for 70 years.

[Spork]

Talk Vancouver has a survey targeted at housing affordability.

I can't link directly to it, but you can sign up to see if it is available to you at www.talkvancouver.com

[Max.]

Originally Posted by cornholio

This is what I don't get. I don't find Canada particularly special, but I say this in comparison to Europe. In my case healthcare is significantly worse in Canada, education has also been going down hill in Canada and I would confidently say is worse then my original country (they are killing it with the international students buying their way in), crime rates murder rates are higher in Canada, inequality is significantly higher, infrastructure is significantly worse in Canada, and you have less freedoms in Canada in compassion to my home country (not the case for some with some other EU countries). Actually the only and I mean only benefit I see my self in Canada is nature (and for me that is huge, I hunt, I fish, I camp, I climb. In Europe I cant take a truck, load it with my chainsaw, my guns, my ATV and go into the middle of nowhere and do what I want with no other people anywhere close). Well that and slightly higher earning potential in most fields, though IT is starting to eclipse Vancouver in salaries, in my country, salaries get higher as you head west and north in EU. But I do understand there are lots of overpopulated pretty crummy places to live in Asia / Africa and South America (spend lots of time in Brazil my self). But at the end of the day Canada does have a immigration quota and everyone literally can't come here.



As far as I am aware you can only lease. Am I wrong? And before this year foreigners could only own 1 property they lived in (recent change I guess). Now that the Chinese economy is primed for systematic failure along with its asset bubbles in danger of deflation they seemed to have relaxed the restrictions.

Actually, China made the restriction even more harsh this year because of the significant housing price increase in 1st tier city. Shanghai in the previous can allow non-shanghai citizen buy a house if they are working 3 straight years, right now is 5. No family in Shanghai can own more than 1 residential property unless their child is becoming an adult and the family is qualified to buy another one for kid. As a foreigner? Every person can buy one in Shanghai. Outside China's 1st tier city, you can buy as many as you want.

The 70 years leased-land is another story. China anyway is a communism country, so the government is not allow any company or person own the land. But the government will automatic renewal the land to the property owner after the lease expired.

[nefc]

Another take on Rennie's talk: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on...-its-not-a-supply-issue/article30380106/

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by nefc

Another take on Rennie's talk: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on...-its-not-a-supply-issue/article30380106/

Yep it pretty much debunks what Rennie and the other real estate pimps have been pushing. Also a bitch slap to the "build our way out of it" crowd:

...Consider the claim that it’s “all about supply.” This claim suggests that we are not building enough new housing to meet the demand from a growing population. But is there any evidence of that? No. In fact, the ratio of population to housing units in Greater Vancouver has been falling for the past 20 years or so. Even the UDI said in a late 2015 report that housing starts were in the “healthy range” given population growth, and had been for several years. And housing starts have surged recently, to their highest point in over 25 years, even while net migration (international and domestic) into Vancouver has declined somewhat in recent years....

[twoNeurons]

Soooo... lots of anecdotal stories here.

85% of my building are Asian!
90% of people lined up are Chinese!
75% of people in line came out of a tour bus!

Seems to me, the best way to separate facts from fiction is to simply publish the actual numbers. Or make all the data public as to HOW MUCH, WHO, and COUNTRY of origin.

And don't give me that BS that the data doesn't exist. The data is controlled by the RE industry, audited and filtered by the RE industry, and self-regulated by the RE industry.

Why, oh why, do we allow the RE industry ( turning into the biggest industry in the country ) to regulate itself, release its own numbers, and restrict access to data?

I have friends who used to work for the RE board office ( not as realtors ). They told me they would often get requests, even from Revenue Canada, about a property. They were instructed NOT to release data. Yes, you can get LOTS of data on the history of a property by paying a low fee ( per property ) through a realtor. I think it's something like $15, but no one can get access to the data feed itself. At least not in BC.

Surely, if foreign buyers were such an issue, there should be hard unfiltered data so that we can make an INFORMED decision, rather than rely on anecdotal evidence.

Surely, having this raw data available to independent data analysts is a vital and necessary tool to figure out what is REALLY going on.

Why has there been no push to get this data?

Why has there been no REAL effort to PROVE allegations, beyond anecdotal stories of rogue real estate agents counting Chinese surnames by hand?

Why don't we see hard numbers and breakdowns of sales of ALL properties sold in Greater Vancouver, or even the city of Vancouver?

Why don't we see ACTUAL house prices averages instead of the fudgeable house pricing index?

Without data, we have guesswork. And guesswork is open to interpretation, manipulation, and ultimately capitulation ( of the general public ).

It leads to FEAR of being overrun by foreigners.
It leads to UNCERTAINTY of what is actually going on.
It leads to DOUBT of anything any person says about the industry.

When you have FUD, you have the making of a perfect storm for SPECULATION.

The real estate industry does NOT want more regulation and scrutiny ( who does ) so they tow the line of whatever public opinion is. The public thinks that foreigners are buying all the real estate, and the RE industry simply go along with it.

It's much more comfortable to point the finger OUT than IN.

And to those that point to Australia as a shining example of restricting foreign ownership... prices went UP when they restricted ownership, not down.

Switzerland has high real estate ( and everything else ) because they have a VERY protectionist mindset. Swiss people have just 'accepted' that things are expensive in Switzerland... because they're somehow more special. However, it's known that the protectionist policies had led to higher prices in general... and it's a part of their Swiss identity, almost a point of pride.

It's like how Canadians beam with pride about a "FREE" medical system, even though introducing a % of co-pay ( even if only for those over a certain income threshold ) would make the system more efficient, more sustainable, and less wasteful.

Anyway, the POINT is that protectionism RARELY leads to the outcome that you expect, especially when based on public sentiment and anecdotal stories.

Think about it, without hard data, we're SPECULATING about how much SPECULATION there is in the market. How crazy is that?


And as for the "Vancouver's land is constrained! We have no room for more houses! We can't build any more land!" arguments, I suspect people who say that don't REALLY understand what constrained supply really means. There's PLENTY of stock out there, and plenty of land to build upon. Sure, the city of Vancouver doesn't have much greenfield land left, but even in Vancouver, there's plenty of room, plenty of infill and PLENTY of teardowns.

We ARE in an odd place right now where you have very little stock on the market. Why? When prices are skyrocketing so quickly, why would you be in a rush to sell? Greed takes over. You want to wait just ONE more month, to sell at a higher price. Many people are afraid of selling. THAT is the only supply and demand issue we're seeing. A real estate agent friend of mine told me that there is a surprising dearth of work for most agents and that it's not easy to get them. This only adds to the paranoia.

I'll finish with another story. My parents recently sold their SFH in Cloverdale in a desireable convenient location to downsize and become mortgage free. Got WAY more than they expected. Had a few offers from a variety of people. One Asian family ( raised in Vancouver type ) sent a lowball offer. In the end, It was on the market for 3 weeks and the ultimate buyer... a truck driver. White. Single. late 30s. Moved in with his parents. So much for China buying up Metro Vancouver.

[twoNeurons]

Originally Posted by Hourglass

**edit: you'd better hope Trump dosn't get elected... There will be a flood of Americans looking to buy property in Vancouver!

There already is. There always HAS been. In charts I have seen, Americans make up MOST of the vast majority of foreign buyers. The difference between them and Asian buyers? Generally their English accent, color of their skin, and number of folds in their eye lids. Americans look more like us... so they're not as scary.

So about that actual raw data...