The Great Canadian Transit Thread

[eemy]

Does anyone else find that renderings are becoming increasingly detached from reality? They are becoming almost indecipherable with wisps of windows and soft hazy edges that are impossible to comprehend as anything other than the cover to some sort of science fiction novel. Utopias look pretty, but I'm not convinced these renderings are even physically possible.

[caltrane74]

I think this render is just meant to show integration between GO RER-Smarttrack/the DRL/Waterfront LRT and surrounding business which can be built on the reclaimed land. How it is built and how it will look will be up to the developers/city based on budgets.

[Innsertnamehere]

They are from the developer, though yes, early in the process so they are largely concepts. Expect a similar but more realistic final product.

[The Chemist]

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

subways take around 8 years to actually build once construction starts. A couple of years of design needs to be done as well.

Depends on the location, really. Based on what I've seen here in Shanghai, construction tends to take about 4 years - although I suppose Shanghai's pretty easy to bore tunnels in given that the ground is very soft, and the associated costs (labour, environmental review, etc) are lower than they are in the West.

[ssiguy]

^ To say nothing of those pesky little problems of free speech and political action that we have in the West where you can't just tell someone to move out and if they refuse you throw them in jail.

When, like in a Chinese dictatorship, you have the ability to throw anyone out of their home and by pass an environmental concern then you can build a lot faster along any corridor you want.

[ainvan]

Google Maps launches real-time transit updates for the TTC

Google Map’s real-time transit info feature has just launched for the Toronto Transit Commission (TTC) on both Android and iOS, giving Torontonians more accurate and timely information about public transit.

With the update, Google Maps can now instruct users on what the best route is according to transit conditions and inform them when their subway, bus or streetcar will arrive (not just when it’s supposed to arrive). Maps will also continually update estimated arrival times throughout a trip and alert users to service disruptions, detours and stops that are under construction.

This update is a welcome addition to Maps, especially for daily commuters in Canada’s largest city. Google notes in its press release that transit is one of the most googled issues in the city, and says that the top question on the subject for the last six months is: “How to plan a TTC trip?” while other popular searches are, “When is the next TTC bus?” and “Where is my streetcar?”

Mobile Syrup

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

^ To say nothing of those pesky little problems of free speech and political action that we have in the West where you can't just tell someone to move out and if they refuse you throw them in jail.

When, like in a Chinese dictatorship, you have the ability to throw anyone out of their home and by pass an environmental concern then you can build a lot faster along any corridor you want.

Less to do with China being a dictatorship and more to do with a lack of regulations revolving around construction requirements and labour protection for construction workers.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by JHikka

Less to do with China being a dictatorship and more to do with a lack of regulations revolving around construction requirements and labour protection for construction workers.

I'm reminded that Panama City built Line 1 of its metro in under five years, from announcement to inauguration - 16km (7.2km underground) and 14 stations.

[flipv]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

I'm reminded that Panama City built Line 1 of its metro in under five years, from announcement to inauguration - 16km (7.2km underground) and 14 stations.

Or Madrid building 300+km of metro in 15 years.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by flipv

Or Madrid building 300+km of metro in 15 years.

True, but if Canada joined the EU, the EU would not throw at us the kind of money that they did at Spain!

[flipv]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

True, but if Canada joined the EU, the EU would not throw at us the kind of money that they did at Spain!

I don't think the EU throws around that kind of money anymore -- for anyone.

It's really incredible to see what the Spanish have done with that money. Madrid's infrastructure is easily one of the best I have ever seen. Germany seemed so weak in comparison. True mega-multimodal transit system linking expressways to regional rail, metro, bus and light rail. You have like 6 different transit options for getting from Barajas to the city. On various modes!

Conclusion: not a waste of money at all - this type of building program should be Ontario's priority for the GTA. It vastly increases the quality of life for residents and makes getting around the entire region almost as easy as in a car.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by flipv

I don't think the EU throws around that kind of money anymore -- for anyone.

It's really incredible to see what the Spanish have done with that money. Madrid's infrastructure is easily one of the best I have ever seen. Germany seemed so weak in comparison. True mega-multimodal transit system linking expressways to regional rail, metro, bus and light rail. You have like 6 different transit options for getting from Barajas to the city. On various modes!

Yes, it is a wonderful system.

[flipv]

And it's not just Madrid, but all their major cities. Barcelona is also very well covered and intercity rail is highly developed. The AVE runs mostly through desert and still manages to be full with reasonable fares.

Yes Spain had quite the bubble and associated debt but they are now growing very fast and much of that economic growth is due to how developed their transport systems are. Companies and industries have no problem approving a business case to set up facilities there.

[alps]

Hong Kong's 30.5 km West Rail was conceived in about 1994. After some political setbacks it was approved and built in only 4-5 years, opening in 2003. It included a 13.4 km viaduct, cut and cover metro tunnel, a 5.5 km tunnel under the Tai Lam mountains, stations built over rivers and beneath elevated highways, extensive reclamation of land from the sea, the largest train depot in southeast Asia, diversion of several rivers, and stations over underground caverns that required the world's deepest piling. Hong Kong is not comparable to mainland China and the accident rate on the West Rail construction sites was several times lower than the Hong Kong average.

How come 6 km in Toronto takes longer than that? Honest question.

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[manny_santos]

Originally Posted by ainvan

Google Maps launches real-time transit updates for the TTC



Mobile Syrup

That's great news for me - I use Line 1 daily and during rush hour it is highly vulnerable to problems. I had another commute this week that took half an hour longer than it should have due to a "reduced speed zone" and a power outage.

[The Chemist]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

^ To say nothing of those pesky little problems of free speech and political action that we have in the West where you can't just tell someone to move out and if they refuse you throw them in jail.

When, like in a Chinese dictatorship, you have the ability to throw anyone out of their home and by pass an environmental concern then you can build a lot faster along any corridor you want.

Not entirely true. In recent years large protests have stopped several major construction projects from going forward in China, including the extension of Shanghai's Maglev to Hongqiao Airport.

[osmo]

Noise laws is the biggest hindrance with contraction in Toronto. You look at sties and they rarely are active as they have to ramp up and shut down for very tight windows each day.

You look at Exhibition Place and both the BMO Field renovation and hotel construction where they are allowed to work around the clock as nobody lives close by. Projects that would take much longer have been completed or shown much greater progress.

The labour law issues is a excuse. Toronto moves at a snails pace with construction due to simple NIMBY-ism. I would rather have a quick and dirty 4 year project versus a project that drags on for a decade.

The TTC is another example of this. With its Subway shutdowns if it went its regular pace of being as non-disruptive as possible to the public it would of taken 6 more years to get the same amount of work done in one year and a bit with weekend closures on segments of the line.

A DRL in 15 years is laughable. The Yonge line will blow its lid in 5-6 years at current rates of usage.

[1overcosc]

Ottawa is building its downtown subway in 5.5 years from award of contract to builder to beginning of service. 10 years from announcement to beginning of service.

Achieving the tight timelines of places like China is not realistic in Canada, but the TTC can certainly do better.

[manny_santos]

Originally Posted by osmo

A DRL in 15 years is laughable. The Yonge line will blow its lid in 5-6 years at current rates of usage.

Business is partly to blame. I had thought there was a trend a few years ago towards decentralization of office locations around the GTA and telecommuting, which would help reduce the crushing load of people going into downtown Toronto every day. But I see evidence that this is changing.

I don't know about the entire business community, but the company I work for is consolidating all of its GTA offices into one large office in downtown Toronto next year - and they are going to prohibit telecommuting at the same time. This is going to mean hundreds more people are going to be converging on downtown Toronto every day - something neither the TTC or the road network can handle. And this is only one company. If other companies, particularly large ones like the banks move in that direction, downtown Toronto is going to be absolute hell in 5 years.

Telecommuting has the potential to transform the amount of people using roads and transit systems, especially for jobs like mine that have no practical reason to be tied down to any one geographic location - the job can be done anywhere in the world that has a high speed Internet connection. And maybe in time, this will happen.

[Innsertnamehere]

The yonge line has other capacity increases to help in the mean time remember. The spadina extension is expected to take a bit of the pressure off of it in just over a year when it opens, and then the new signalling system will allow the TTC to increase frequencies. Those should hold the line off until the DRL can get built.

And lol @ the violent crime comment.