SLC: Performing Arts Center and 111 Tower

[Gastroc]

From inside Abravanel Hall

[delts145]

^^^
Thanks Gastroc, Cool to see a perspective of the new Abravanel Plaza also. I like how it turned out more than I thought I would. I think breaking up the flow of all that concrete with the landscaping is a big improvement.

[Orlando]

Originally Posted by SL,UT

We always get the reject designs from SOM's portfolio. 111 Tower looks like it was designed by a first year intern straight out of a for-profit design school. New York didn't want it. Chicago didn't want it. So they dumped it on Salt Lake because they know we always accept mediocre designs. Just another dull glass box that will look dated in 10 years.

Ya, this exterior design, minus the cool structure and base, is very bland and mediocre. However, I'm not too sure that SOM is to blame. There are always other decision factors, such as cost decisions made by the owner. Perhaps, the owner priced out some options and chose this less expensive option. Or perhaps the unique structure of this building was so costly, that they decided to compromise on other parts, such as the exterior skin. But, I do agree with you that this exterior, however it was decided upon, is rather boring. I am excited, though, to see how the columnless all-glass base will look!

[DCRes]

[IMG] by , on Flickr[/IMG]

[HellToSell]

How long til the crane comes down?

[(Eco)nomy_404]

Originally Posted by DCRes

[IMG] by , on Flickr[/IMG]

Am I the only one who thinks this looks like something that would fit better in a Southern California office park?

I've been waiting to comment on it because I was hoping it would grow on me. Now that it's topped out and the outside cladding is all but complete, I can safely say it has yet to appeal to me.

I dare say I'd prefer this Orange County office tower over the one we're getting with 111. Maybe I'm just being harsh, so I'll try to just suck it up and deal with it. Maybe I will get used to it in time. I'm curious if anyone else shares the angst I feel with this project.

[Ironweed]

Originally Posted by (Eco)nomy_404

Am I the only one who thinks this looks like something that would fit better in a Southern California office park?

I've been waiting to comment on it because I was hoping it would grow on me. Now that it's topped out and the outside cladding is all but complete, I can safely say it has yet to appeal to me.

I dare say I'd prefer this Orange County office tower over the one we're getting with 111. Maybe I'm just being harsh, so I'll try to just suck it up and deal with it. Maybe I will get used to it in time. I'm curious if anyone else shares the angst I feel with this project.

SLC is too conservative for something like that.

[(Eco)nomy_404]

Originally Posted by Ironweed

SLC is too conservative for something like that.

Yeah I'd say! You know it's bad when a building in a So. Cal office park has more glitz than something we're putting in our CBD.

I was actually talking to a friend of mine recently who has a Ph.D in Geography. I asked him to identify the city I'm living in with a picture of down town. When he couldn't answer, I joked, "Common Mr. Geography!" He retorted, "Don't look at me, I don't know generic city skylines." I once asked a colleague of mine in Brazil what he thought of SLC when I showed him a picture. He said it looks "nice" and "clean" but also "estilo-padrão" (of a standardized style). I'm beginning to see a theme in people's reactions to our city.

Don't get me wrong, we have made great strides in our skyline. We do, however, need to begin to both literally and figuratively think "outside the box" on our towers. I like the variety of colors and styles on the surfaces, but we really need some more curves and edges to our skyline.

[ToysNoiz]

SLC has this already...

[(Eco)nomy_404]

Now you've got me salivating over those brick town homes in the foreground (or whatever they are). Yes, please! We need some more of that

[airhero]

I think it's ridiculous to say it belongs in a suburban office park. The biggest thing that matters in a downtown is how it interacts with the street. 111's lobby will be bright and completely visible from the street. It was specifically engineered for that and to hang over another building. Just because the building is boring from 1000 feet away doesn't mean it's suburban. With regard to the street level that Orange County building and 111 are opposites.

I do agree about the CenturyLink building though. And a number of buildings in east downtown.

[delts145]

^^^
Excellent points airhero, and what I've been trying to point out periodically for some time now. Yes, 111 is pretty much just good infill from a skyline perspective, at a distance. However, from the street level it is the perfect match to abut against the UPAC. IMO, the choice of a much busier curtain would have looked tacky as a partner to the Theatre. I think the lobby engagement will be exceptionally attractive. The top is also an excellent choice.

That said, I do very much agree that it is now time for Salt Lake City to start thinking more along the lines of some of the towers that have been going up in Calgary in recent years. The 111 tower was a unique situation that had to be very careful about it's coupling with the UPAC. I think that new towers at the south end of Main, also State and W. Temple should definitely show more thinking outside the box. Salt Lake has done a good job with it's public low rise buildings, such as the library, cop shop, etc. There's no reason it can't also use that same innovation with it's towers. Salt Lake also needs to be pro active in adding a careful mix of authentically crafted historic styles to the CBD. Too many of the latest contemporary minimalist without a healthy mix of diversity, will leave the CBD feeling too sterile.

Here's to hoping that the new Regent Hotel and the Trolley Square Apts. will realize their full potential as proposed.

[(Eco)nomy_404]

Originally Posted by airhero

I think it's ridiculous to say it belongs in a suburban office park. The biggest thing that matters in a downtown is how it interacts with the street. 111's lobby will be bright and completely visible from the street. It was specifically engineered for that and to hang over another building. Just because the building is boring from 1000 feet away doesn't mean it's suburban. With regard to the street level that Orange County building and 111 are opposites.

I do agree about the CenturyLink building though. And a number of buildings in east downtown.

I was referring to how it interacts with the skyline, not the street level. My main point is that it's a box tower. I agree that the street level is important, but one mustn't ignore how a building interacts with the skyline either. I was being sarcastic about the suburban tower. My point in using it was to show that it doesn't take much to add a few angles to make it look less boring. I used the suburban tower to hyperbolize my point. 222, for example, is still conservative, but it has that front angle to it. I don't hate 111 overall, I just think it under-delivered for the skyline.

[airhero]

Originally Posted by (Eco)nomy_404

I was referring to how it interacts with the skyline, not the street level. My main point is that it's a box tower. I agree that the street level is important, but one mustn't ignore how a building interacts with the skyline either. I was being sarcastic about the suburban tower. My point in using it was to show that it doesn't take much to add a few angles to make it look less boring. I used the suburban tower to hyperbolize my point. 222, for example, is still conservative, but it has that front angle to it. I don't hate 111 overall, I just think it under-delivered for the skyline.

I didn't pick up on the sarcasm. Seriously believed you thought the two buildings were comparable.

I agree with your sentiment. It's boring. Hopefully the crown can add some oomph at night. At the very least it will make for a good gap filler in the skyline.

[(Eco)nomy_404]

Originally Posted by airhero

I didn't pick up on the sarcasm. Seriously believed you thought the two buildings were comparable.

I agree with your sentiment. It's boring. Hopefully the crown can add some oomph at night. At the very least it will make for a good gap filler in the skyline.

Unfortunately, that's the drawback of the written word. But yeah, I'm not saying we should start importing Orange County designs into SLC by any stretch of the imagination.

The crown could help, the street-level is good, and I even like the use of the green glass (if it were blue I'd really be unhappy!) The green adds a nice, soft contrast to its neighbors. I just really hope that future towers can be more inspiring and less conforming. I'm not asking for Dubai, maybe just a little more Austin.

[bob rulz]

Originally Posted by (Eco)nomy_404

I was actually talking to a friend of mine recently who has a Ph.D in Geography. I asked him to identify the city I'm living in with a picture of down town. When he couldn't answer, I joked, "Common Mr. Geography!" He retorted, "Don't look at me, I don't know generic city skylines." I once asked a colleague of mine in Brazil what he thought of SLC when I showed him a picture. He said it looks "nice" and "clean" but also "estilo-padrão" (of a standardized style). I'm beginning to see a theme in people's reactions to our city.

To be fair, how many mid-sized American cities could be identified by their skylines? Some of the cities in the U.S. with similar CSA populations as Salt Lake (Combined Statistical Area, so it properly incorporates the entire Wasatch Front) are Sacramento, Columbus, Indianapolis, and Orlando.

[Future Mayor]

I like the clean design of 111, and while it doesn't have much sex appeal at the top essentially within 10 years it's not going to really stick out in the skyline all that much anyway. I don't have a problem with it, yes it could have had an angle somewhere, particularly the top, but I'm in the camp of it's a nice looking building and will have great street presence and a very unique interaction with the PAC.


As for those "amazing town homes in the foreground", that is the side view of this.

[(Eco)nomy_404]

Originally Posted by Future Mayor

I like the clean design of 111, and while it doesn't have much sex appeal at the top essentially within 10 years it's not going to really stick out in the skyline all that much anyway. I don't have a problem with it, yes it could have had an angle somewhere, particularly the top, but I'm in the camp of it's a nice looking building and will have great street presence and a very unique interaction with the PAC.


As for those "amazing town homes in the foreground", that is the side view of this.

I realize I'm in the minority on 111, I was just wondering if anyone else shared some of my reservations. It would appear I'm mostly alone and I'm ok with that. It's nice to hear other opinions on it. I can accept it if it truly is the end of an era and we start to shake up the conservative paradigm in the city's architecture a little bit going forward. I'm just not very confident that's going to happen. At least it's not an eye sore. There isn't anything wrong with our skyline in the least bit, I just think it could have more. If 111 isn't the catalyst to a shift in architectural design for the reason some of you guys mentioned, hopefully we get one soon that will usher in that shift.

And what's wrong with the town homes? I like the historical value they bring in. Sure they could be spruced up a bit, but I still like them. I'll stand by that.

[(Eco)nomy_404]

Originally Posted by bob rulz

To be fair, how many mid-sized American cities could be identified by their skylines? Some of the cities in the U.S. with similar CSA populations as Salt Lake (Combined Statistical Area, so it properly incorporates the entire Wasatch Front) are Sacramento, Columbus, Indianapolis, and Orlando.

That is precisely my point. It lacks the diversity in some ways that would make it stand out from such cities. I'm not complaining about our skyline being different from its peers, rather in the lack of difference from them. Once again, the skyline is fine, but it could be better. We are reaching that stage were its time to start to distinguish our architecture more than before. We are doing that in some ways. The mountains and the Temple are built-in advantages. The 99 West tower is phenomenal in its bridge from classic to modern design and it has a rather iconic appeal. The Regent is a great example of modern design that isn't tacky. It's just when I feel we are going in a new direction that we come out with another box tower. That's why 111 underwhelmed me.

[Future Mayor]

There is nothing wrong with "The Townhomes" My only point was that they aren't townhomes and they aren't even the front of a building, it is the non street side of an apartment building of which many of the 3 story walk ups in east downtown look very similar.