[Moncton] Downtown Developments

[Monctoncore]

Ah, well I guess we will just have to wait. On another note, does the city of Moncton have any rules and regulations on what can be build downtown, for example, apartments etc. I noticed the last few that went up all were wooden structures (which is fine) but they all seem to have crapy siding on them, wasn't there some kind of rules out in place years back that mentioned building downtown had to adhere to specific guidelines? Or did they just mean that for only Main Street? (Sarcasm implied)
As well, is it maybe time to change the name to something else? I think Main Street, from the causeway to Vaughn Harvey is great, but from Vaughn to where it meets Champlain maybe change it? Or even Change the whole main st. name? Any thoughts?

[MonctonRad]

Official City of Moncton position regarding the process to determine the future of MHS (press release):

May 25, 2016

MONCTON – Over the past few months, there has been much discussion surrounding the future of the old Moncton High School (MHS) building and of the current Moncton Public Library.

City Manager Jacques Dubé said again today that "The former MHS is an important heritage icon in our city. Moncton City Council is on record, along with the Province of New Brunswick, as wanting it saved and adapted to a new use for our community."

“On April 5, 2016 City Council mandated the City Manager to assess the project concepts, via a joint municipal-provincial working group, that have been submitted to the Province and make a recommendation to Council supported by a sustainable business plan associated with each concept”, stated Dubé. "This was following receipt by the City of a complete conceptual plan for the building from MH35 late in January 2016. We would like to see this business case analysis completed by year-end so that the respective governing bodies can then make decisions and have the repurposed building opened in 2018."

“We can report that we are and have been in discussion with various stakeholders, including the Province of Brunswick, the library board and staff, the library’s current landlord and the proponents of MH35 to establish the potential for the former high school building and a work plan to make it happen.”

Further, the City Manager stated "The Province of New Brunswick, as the owner of the heritage building, has made it clear to Moncton City Council that it expects the City to play a role in a new use for MHS. Though that exact function remains unclear at this time, it will be a decision of the incoming City Council."

“One option that has received considerable discussion thus far is the proposed move of the Moncton Public Library. We will be exploring that proposal from several perspectives: the impact on the library, the impact on our downtown, as well as the financial capital and operating costs and pros and cons of such a move.”
"As part of the jointly prepared business plan, Moncton City Council needs to see how the Government of New Brunswick will contribute to saving this historic building that it owns. The City of Moncton is willing to engage in a process with the Province to work collaboratively towards evaluating all options despite challenging financial times for both parties." Jacques Dubé added.

"The City of Moncton believes a realistic plan, which will re-purpose the MHS building and that is in the best interests of the downtown, the community and the Province, can be brought forward. By working as partners with our residents and other stakeholders, the Province and the City will ensure this historic property will continue to be an icon in our community."

"Once a viable business plan (or plans) to save the former MHS has been tentatively agreed to by City Council and the Government of New Brunswick, a formal public consultation process will be undertaken, as indicated by the Finance Minister, the Hon. Roger Melanson, in his budget speech earlier this year, to ensure there is public support for the proposed repurposing," concluded the City Manager.

Well Chris Collins, put that in your pipe and smoke it.........

[Sandbagger]

Of course Chris Collins wants the library moved. Look what just happens to be located across the street directly from the main entrance of MH35:

http://propertyguys.com/property/index/id/87463#

Property has been listed for months. Of course I say this without knowing who the actual owner is, but I found it interesting.

[habs33]

To my knowoledge, he is not the owner. I used to have a office there and new the owner.I believe he's the one selling the house.

Originally Posted by Sandbagger

Of course Chris Collins wants the library moved. Look what just happens to be located across the street directly from the main entrance of MH35:

http://propertyguys.com/property/index/id/87463#

Property has been listed for months. Of course I say this without knowing who the actual owner is, but I found it interesting.

[L'homard]

Chris Collins has never owned that property as far as I know.

[Patapouf26]

I talked to Mr Collins about a few of our worries. First off he told me more details of the MH35 proposition will be coming forward soon, with more pictures. I'm not exactly sure what that means or if we'll actually know more... I wish I was better at summarizing, but he seemed to say that senior housing would be part of the project.

Here were some of his arguments.
- The old MHS location is costing the province $300,000/year
- Blue Cross was looking to expand in the region (he said 200 jobs). Their first pick would be at their downtown location, but that the library was somehow blocking them. They are looking at other locations (he named Dieppe specifically). So more people working downtown.
- He, point blank, said to me that the city is stalling... Didn't seem impressed!

Don't be shy to reply to me. My mind is all over the place right now. Any reactions you have might jog my memory and I might be able to generate more discussion based on my exchange with him.

[Monctoncore]

The province could have also just renovated it and kept Moncton High there... They could have build a new high school downtown, but instead they spent money on moving it, not using common sense and thinking wait... We can't tear down this heritage property, so we will build a new school and then also continue to pay for the old school, then growl about the city not moving the library and say they are stalling. Then to add more to it uses the they plan on moving some of those jobs to Dieppe to scare the city into moving it.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by Monctoncore

The province could have also just renovated it and kept Moncton High there... They could have build a new high school downtown, but instead they spent money on moving it, not using common sense and thinking wait... We can't tear down this heritage property, so we will build a new school and then also continue to pay for the old school, then growl about the city not moving the library and say they are stalling.

Indeed. The new MHS cost what - somewhere around $28M I think? Now add in all the infrastructure improvements to Elmwood Drive to support the new school (which are still ongoing). That's at least another $8-10M. Finally add in the MH35 renovation plan for the old MHS (which is initially budgeted at $21M). That's all adding up to a grand total of nearly $60M.

It would have cost less than half of that to gut the old MHS and completely renovate it, and at the same time keeping all those high school students in the core.

Stupid, stupid, stupid.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by Patapouf26

I talked to Mr Collins about a few of our worries. First off he told me more details of the MH35 proposition will be coming forward soon, with more pictures. I'm not exactly sure what that means or if we'll actually know more... I wish I was better at summarizing, but he seemed to say that senior housing would be part of the project.

Here were some of his arguments.
- The old MHS location is costing the province $300,000/year
- Blue Cross was looking to expand in the region (he said 200 jobs). Their first pick would be at their downtown location, but that the library was somehow blocking them. They are looking at other locations (he named Dieppe specifically). So more people working downtown.
- He, point blank, said to me that the city is stalling... Didn't seem impressed!

Don't be shy to reply to me. My mind is all over the place right now. Any reactions you have might jog my memory and I might be able to generate more discussion based on my exchange with him.

Thanks for the info.

You've just confirmed one of the rumours previously floating around the forum about the MH35 proposal - and right from the horses mouth too.

- it was previously rumoured that Blue Cross was planning on new hiring in the city. Now we know how many they're talking about - 200 new jobs. That's not insubstantial. It's vital we keep those jobs downtown. I'm sure Blue Cross would love to be able to locate them in their own eponymous building. At all costs, we can't lose these jobs to Dieppe.

Maybe the provincial government could sweeten the MH35 deal a bit to move this along. Perhaps they could do something to make the MH35 proposal more attractive to the city and to the library board to get them on side. The MH35 proposal (as is) is worth $21M. Maybe if the province coughed up another $5M or so for additional improvements, everyone could agree on the value of this project.

The library board doesn't like the current MH35 proposal because they would be giving up their versatile, well lit and bright two storey rectangular space in the best building on Main Street in order to be consigned to an equally sized but awkward "U shaped" space in the ground floor of an old high school building on the edge of downtown. Some of the proposed space is actually below ground level. They would in essence be moving into a dank basement, and into a space which doesn't lend itself to supporting current library programs. I don't blame the library for being upset.

Here is my own personal proposal:

Look at the proposed MH35 floor plan below.



The floor plan shows that the central courtyard of the old high school is planned to become an outdoor garden. What if instead, the courtyard was converted into a glassed in atrium integrated directly into the surrounding library space.

All of a sudden, the library would morph from an awkward U shape into a much more versatile trapezoidal space. This space could easily be converted for uses such as recitals, small theatrical performances, public readings, perhaps a cafe or other things too. If you were to knock out the walls surrounding the courtyard, the courtyard would suddenly become the heart and soul and the central focus of the entire library complex. Being glassed in, this atrium would naturally be bright and cheerful, especially in the winter time.

You could keep some of the greenery in the courtyard space, and since it is within an enclosed atrium, you could add tropical plants into the mix too - perhaps including a few palm trees. Can you imagine how inviting this would be to the people of the city in the middle of February? I think the library would become quite the magnet for people to gather, especially in the winter. People would come to the library for a wintertime boost for their souls, to smell the tropical flowers, to grab a cup of coffee and perhaps a dessert and yes, to browse the stacks. Just imagine how attractive it would be on a snowy afternoon to read a book in a comfortable chair surrounded by tropical greenery, sipping on a latte. I'm in.

Thoughts anyone?

[pierremoncton]

How do we know Blue Cross isn't just throwing the D word around in a bid to induce panic and Collins is buying it? There's a ton of office space near the Blue Cross Centre; would Blue Cross really willingly split their offices farther apart just to stick it to the city? On the other hand, Fortis would stand to benefit by having the $1/year lease cancelled -- so are there any guarantees that Blue Cross won't opt for cheap suburban office space anyway, and that Fortis won't find another (profitable) tenant?

With respect to the school, of course it should've been renovated and stayed put, but that was a previous government's decision which can't be remedied. What bothers me is that the current government is worried about $300k/year but yet (1) just opted to locate another suburban school in Dieppe, and (2) they could've renovated MHS to house l'École Champlain (from its current location on Mill Rd, Champlain is closer to Church St than the chosen location near Shediac Rd).

I was hoping to see the MHS structure remain for good use, and I was neutral on the library issue, but I'm increasingly leaning toward keeping the library in place and increasingly receptive to the idea of the wrecking ball taking down MHS.

I also find it offensive that Collins complained that the province pays 70% of the public library's expenses while the city only pays 30%. Who exactly does he think fills the coffers? You and me, regardless of how it's filtered up the chain and back down.

With respect to maintenance, how can it cost $25k/month? Is the empty building kept at 22 C throughout winter?

[Scarface]

Originally Posted by pierremoncton

How do we know Blue Cross isn't just throwing the D word around in a bid to induce panic and Collins is buying it? There's a ton of office space near the Blue Cross Centre; would Blue Cross really willingly split their offices farther apart just to stick it to the city? On the other hand, Fortis would stand to benefit by having the $1/year lease cancelled -- so are there any guarantees that Blue Cross won't opt for cheap suburban office space anyway, and that Fortis won't find another (profitable) tenant?

With respect to the school, of course it should've been renovated and stayed put, but that was a previous government's decision which can't be remedied. What bothers me is that the current government is worried about $300k/year but yet (1) just opted to locate another suburban school in Dieppe, and (2) they could've renovated MHS to house l'École Champlain (from its current location on Mill Rd, Champlain is closer to Church St than the chosen location near Shediac Rd).

I was hoping to see the MHS structure remain for good use, and I was neutral on the library issue, but I'm increasingly leaning toward keeping the library in place and increasingly receptive to the idea of the wrecking ball taking down MHS.

I also find it offensive that Collins complained that the province pays 70% of the public library's expenses while the city only pays 30%. Who exactly does he think fills the coffers? You and me, regardless of how it's filtered up the chain and back down.

With respect to maintenance, how can it cost $25k/month? Is the empty building kept at 22 C throughout winter?

I do think you hit the nail on the head. It seems more like a tactic to get the library out of there 1$ lease to rent the location at market, and personally I don't think Blue cross would spread out into 3 separate buildings. If there looking at adding 200 Jobs either they would take up the Library space, or add those 200 jobs in the building there at of Millennium Blvd. This is just my opinion on this based on the fact I've worked in offices/Contact centres before.

[BlackYear]

Fencing is up around the Zios property. Construction starting soon I take it!

[josh_cat_eyes]

My preferred location for new Moncton High was on the north of Palisade drive bordering Humphries Brook trail. But it's too late now unfortunately.

[Scarface]

Originally Posted by Budyser

Fencing is up around the Zios property. Construction starting soon I take it!

If I understood correctly it's starting this week

Originally Posted by josh_cat_eyes

My preferred location for new Moncton High was on the north of Palisade drive bordering Humphries Brook trail. But it's too late now unfortunately.

The only spot I can see that would be where you are talking about is Earl Street that is supposed to be built between 200 & 212 Palisade Dr. where they plan on building a complete new residential section that would possibly be all Semi's.

[NBNYer]

Found this video on the proposed medical research building at the GLD hospital to house various research groups including the Atlantic Cancer Research Institute. This comes on the heals of a report showing New-Brunswick is dead last in Canada for research funding. This type of investment in sorely needed if we are to catch up and compete as a province in the future. Moncton is uniquely positioned with the ACRI for this type of investment.

The video shows a render of the 4-story building which will be located in between the hospital and the old RC-CBC building and connected to the hospital with a 4th story pedway.

This article in Radio-Canada states that federal funding has not yet been confirmed but an announcement on this project is expected in June.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9bQQl1ZvY2A

[Scarface]

Originally Posted by NBNYer

Found this video on the proposed medical research building at the GLD hospital to house various research groups including the Atlantic Cancer Research Institute. This comes on the heals of a report showing New-Brunswick is dead last in Canada for research funding. This type of investment in sorely needed if we are to catch up and compete as a province in the future. Moncton is uniquely positioned with the ACRI for this type of investment.

The video shows a render of the 4-story building which will be located in between the hospital and the old RC-CBC building and connected to the hospital with a 4th story pedway.

This article in Radio-Canada states that federal funding has not yet been confirmed but an announcement on this project is expected in June.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9bQQl1ZvY2A

Is it just me, or does this look like there planing on tearing up a large part of the parking to make way for this. It's a good thing that they want to have a medical research centre. But not so much that they would be taken away parking at that end of the hospital. Just my thoughts.

[Patapouf26]

Originally Posted by pierremoncton

How do we know Blue Cross isn't just throwing the D word around in a bid to induce panic and Collins is buying it? There's a ton of office space near the Blue Cross Centre; would Blue Cross really willingly split their offices farther apart just to stick it to the city? On the other hand, Fortis would stand to benefit by having the $1/year lease cancelled -- so are there any guarantees that Blue Cross won't opt for cheap suburban office space anyway, and that Fortis won't find another (profitable) tenant?

With respect to the school, of course it should've been renovated and stayed put, but that was a previous government's decision which can't be remedied. What bothers me is that the current government is worried about $300k/year but yet (1) just opted to locate another suburban school in Dieppe, and (2) they could've renovated MHS to house l'École Champlain (from its current location on Mill Rd, Champlain is closer to Church St than the chosen location near Shediac Rd).

I was hoping to see the MHS structure remain for good use, and I was neutral on the library issue, but I'm increasingly leaning toward keeping the library in place and increasingly receptive to the idea of the wrecking ball taking down MHS.

I also find it offensive that Collins complained that the province pays 70% of the public library's expenses while the city only pays 30%. Who exactly does he think fills the coffers? You and me, regardless of how it's filtered up the chain and back down.

With respect to maintenance, how can it cost $25k/month? Is the empty building kept at 22 C throughout winter?

According to Collins, if the library were to leave, the owner (Fortis?) of the Blue Cross Centre would expand the building to accommodate it's main tenant and their expansion. So both parties seem to be planning this together. Fortis would definitely be benefiting from this, but so would the downtown core I suppose (extra 200 workers)...

Yes, although I don't like to throw money away, I don't find $300k/year is that bad to make sure we find the right project for the old site. I find MonctonRad's idea very interesting. Personally, I'd like to see the city council's preferred option. Do they know something we don't (or that Chris Collins doesn't know)? In any case, communication between the city, the province and taxpayers is very lacking.

[Patapouf26]

Originally Posted by NBNYer

Found this video on the proposed medical research building at the GLD hospital to house various research groups including the Atlantic Cancer Research Institute. This comes on the heals of a report showing New-Brunswick is dead last in Canada for research funding. This type of investment in sorely needed if we are to catch up and compete as a province in the future. Moncton is uniquely positioned with the ACRI for this type of investment.

The video shows a render of the 4-story building which will be located in between the hospital and the old RC-CBC building and connected to the hospital with a 4th story pedway.

This article in Radio-Canada states that federal funding has not yet been confirmed but an announcement on this project is expected in June.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9bQQl1ZvY2A

I saw this video in late fall last year. Very nice project that, I hope, will be announced in June. As for parking, I'm sure they'll figure something out. I would not let this issue get in the way of getting this thing going.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by Patapouf26

According to Collins, if the library were to leave, the owner (Fortis?) of the Blue Cross Centre would expand the building to accommodate it's main tenant and their expansion. So both parties seem to be planning this together. Fortis would definitely be benefiting from this, but so would the downtown core I suppose (extra 200 workers)...

Yes, although I don't like to throw money away, I don't find $300k/year is that bad to make sure we find the right project for the old site. I find MonctonRad's idea very interesting. Personally, I'd like to see the city council's preferred option. Do they know something we don't (or that Chris Collins doesn't know)? In any case, communication between the city, the province and taxpayers is very lacking.

Fortis divested itself of most of it's property holdings last year. The Blue Cross Centre is now the property of Slate Asset Management
http://www.slateam.com

You say that there is a plan to expand the Blue Cross Centre by the owner to accommodate growth of Medavie Blue Cross? Do you mean simply a renovation of the library space or do you mean a physical expansion of the building itself?

This render of the Downing Street project does show a possible expansion of the building fronting Downing Street.



I'm sure that this rendering was done with considerable artistic licence just to show what might be possible, but still it's intriguing. An expansion like this could be incorporated into the back of the existing library space. Maybe Slate has big plans for the building. Maybe they do want the library out........

[Patapouf26]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Fortis divested itself of most of it's property holdings last year. The Blue Cross Centre is now the property of Slate Asset Management
http://www.slateam.com

You say that there is a plan to expand the Blue Cross Centre by the owner to accommodate growth of Medavie Blue Cross? Do you mean simply a renovation of the library space or do you mean a physical expansion of the building itself?

This render of the Downing Street project does show a possible expansion of the building fronting Downing Street.

I'm sure that this rendering was done with considerable artistic licence just to show what might be possible, but still it's intriguing. An expansion like this could be incorporated into the back of the existing library space. Maybe Slate has big plans for the building. Maybe they do want the library out........

Indeed. Mr Collins did use the word "expansion" that would accommodate all these new workers. My interpretation is that Slate would love (perhaps not the word) to get rid of the library for this. But I do think there's a fine line between expansion and renovation. Perhaps they only plan a small expansion incorporated to a renovated area where the library used to be (nothing spectacular like on the rendering). Pure speculation... I'm sure 200 could fit in that type of small renovation/expansion.