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  #6021  
Old Posted May 25, 2016, 10:57 PM
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summersm343 summersm343 is offline
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Great Article from Hidden City on the redevelopment of the 10-story Drueding Building at 5th & Master in Olde Kensington

http://hiddencityphila.org/2016/05/brooding-drueding-on-the-cusp/
     
     
  #6022  
Old Posted May 25, 2016, 11:21 PM
Hockeyfan85 Hockeyfan85 is offline
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Originally Posted by Cro Burnham View Post
Boston is just a more attractive city to mainstream people. Cleaner, safer, richer. And it has a lot more high-end international ties. I assume also its politicians are generally far smarter and more creative.

Philly carries alot of "baggage" relative to Boston that weighs down on its ability to create an appealing (or any) image for outsiders.
Let's face it. Mainstream people = white people. Everything comes from an upper class white lens. And it makes sense that to these people, Boston is appealing because it is safe, clean, and rich. I don't agree with it, because I find Boston pretty overrated for a few reasons. Not to say it isn't a great city at all, but I can certainly point out things about it that I find overrated. I hope Philadelphia never becomes what Boston is, because it's sad that cities like Boston with a rich history and culture are being sold to the highest bidder.


All work and no play makes Boston a boring city.

http://artery.wbur.org/2016/05/25/fears-...-about-the-state-of-live-music-in-boston

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/18/us/rev...as-boston-ends-late-transit-service.html
     
     
  #6023  
Old Posted May 25, 2016, 11:25 PM
Hockeyfan85 Hockeyfan85 is offline
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Originally Posted by Cro Burnham View Post
Travelers who like Boston better than Philadelphia, I guess. There seem to be more of them, which at least makes them more mainstream than the people who like Philly if you define "mainstream" in part as being related to the preferences and values of a plurality of people.

This can't be surprising to anyone: Boston is cute, genteel, and upscale. Philly by comparison is generally less cute, less genteel, and less upscale; tougher. I personally like Philadelphia better, in part for these reasons, but then my city preferences are not so mainstream.

In any event, it doesn't really matter. Whether mainstream or not, more people seem to like Boston than Philly. Not a shocking revelation.

I view Philadelphia in a higher light because of it's authenticity.

There is a thread on citydata that talks about overrated cities and Boston came up the most times quite easily. The most underrated? Philadelphia.

I think the more people that recognize these cities for what they are appreciate Philadelphia more than Boston. They're very similar cities but one is more loose and authentic and the other is more uptight and ostentatious.

Philadelphia has a larger historical footprint than Boston, but more people go to Fanueil Hall. Blows my mind. Independence Hall should be blowing Fanueil Hall out of the water.
     
     
  #6024  
Old Posted May 25, 2016, 11:31 PM
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But the same can be said of Chicago and that doesn't hamper their popularity any.
It's because Chicago is a regional capital, much like Boston is.

Chicago owns the entire Midwest. Boston owns all of New England. It's got influence on a huge region.

Philadelphia does not. It falls between NYC and DC in the Mid-Atlantic.

If Philadelphia had it's own region, it would absolutely have a higher singular profile and not be sandwiched with the others (NYC, DC).

If you were to flip these cities, whoever had their own region would have the same status.
     
     
  #6025  
Old Posted May 26, 2016, 1:30 AM
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Cro Burnham Cro Burnham is offline
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Great points HockeyFan. I agree that generally the white upper middle class gets to decide what's mainstream for the most part. And Boston is the quintessential poster city for white upper middle classness. Philly sure is not.
     
     
  #6026  
Old Posted May 26, 2016, 1:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Cro Burnham View Post
Great points HockeyFan. I agree that generally the white upper middle class gets to decide what's mainstream for the most part. And Boston is the quintessential poster city for white upper middle classness. Philly sure is not.
Some of us are doing our part.
     
     
  #6027  
Old Posted May 26, 2016, 7:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Cro Burnham View Post
Great points HockeyFan. I agree that generally the white upper middle class gets to decide what's mainstream for the most part. And Boston is the quintessential poster city for white upper middle classness. Philly sure is not.
Again I think that is in your own mind and living here so long. Ask not only hipsters but most people under 40 where they would live or what the cool city is between the two and most would say Philly. I haven't lived in the Philadelphia region in years and I know how a lot of younger people view the city. Last year I was talking to some people I knew about Boston vs Philly. All 6 of them preferred Philadelphia over Boston. Yes some where hipsters but this is a very key demographic. Also so many people outside the region don't view the city negatively nearly like townies or longtimers tend to think. Usually those that disparage it think negatively about urban areas in general.
     
     
  #6028  
Old Posted May 26, 2016, 12:09 PM
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Interesting article on The Gallery renovation from Next City:

https://nextcity.org/features/view/philadelphia-gentrification-retail-gallery-mall-makeover
     
     
  #6029  
Old Posted May 26, 2016, 12:10 PM
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Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown View Post
I'm not really interested in the idea of Philadelphia as a historic relic, anyway. I'm much more interested in promoting it as the relevant cultural capital it is, today.
Independence Hall is a historic relic, while Faneuil Hall/Quincy Market is a marketplace that contains a historic building (http://www.faneuilhallmarketplace.com). They're not really comparable.

Or has this just morphed into a Philly vs Boston thread?
     
     
  #6030  
Old Posted May 26, 2016, 12:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Cro Burnham View Post
Great points HockeyFan. I agree that generally the white upper middle class gets to decide what's mainstream for the most part. And Boston is the quintessential poster city for white upper middle classness. Philly sure is not.
I disagree. Anyone that really knows Boston, knows its poverty rates are chart topping. White folks see what they want to see downtown. But Boston is awash in poverty and income disparity.
     
     
  #6031  
Old Posted May 26, 2016, 12:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Cro Burnham View Post
Great points HockeyFan. I agree that generally the white upper middle class gets to decide what's mainstream for the most part. And Boston is the quintessential poster city for white upper middle classness. Philly sure is not.
and who cares? I certainly don't. There are plenty of whiter places in america than Philly. Nothing new there. I don't automatically associate higher % of "upper class" whites and unaffordability with superiority. But that's just me.
     
     
  #6032  
Old Posted May 26, 2016, 12:40 PM
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I disagree. Anyone that really knows Boston, knows its poverty rates are chart topping. White folks see what they want to see downtown. But Boston is awash in poverty and income disparity.
Indeed, the other thing is many other cities have pushed their poor to inner ring suburbs because of housing prices so it's just the reverse of what you see here. For numerous reasons (size being one of them) Philadelphia has a lot of poor areas within the city limits. These other regions still have sizable poor populations, but in many cars a much larger share are living outside the city where they can afford to live. I also thought it was funny that someone was inferring Boston is known for smarter and more ethical politicians vs Philly. Really? I seriously doubt that.
     
     
  #6033  
Old Posted May 26, 2016, 12:45 PM
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What is this Philly v. Boston conversation going on? Have to say many of the assertions people are throwing out there as facts about Philly and Boston don't ring true to me at all as a Center City resident and having spent lots of time in Boston. But let's end this now...
     
     
  #6034  
Old Posted May 26, 2016, 12:51 PM
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Philadelphia and Boston are same tier cities that are very similar in many ways (with differences too). As someone not from either city, I enjoy Philadelphia much more.

I do think Cro is right about his assertion on why some people like Boston. I think it's cool, but for other reasons overrated.
     
     
  #6035  
Old Posted May 26, 2016, 1:07 PM
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Originally Posted by bawdycav View Post
I disagree. Anyone that really knows Boston, knows its poverty rates are chart topping. White folks see what they want to see downtown. But Boston is awash in poverty and income disparity.
I think that's the key, and essentially what everyone here is saying. Boston has traditionally presented itself better than Philly--locally, regionally, and nationally--almost always showing its best face. In other words, despite its share of urban problems--poverty, income disparity, crime, racial tensions, etc.--Boston has ensured that in the public mind, it is not defined by those problems. Instead, it's generally defined in the public's mind by its historic and quaint downtown and other neighborhoods, its long-standing traditions (e.g., Boston Marathon), its world-class educational and health-care institutions, and its cultural attractions (Boston Symphony and Boston Pops, museums, etc.). Several other cities with a similar raft of urban problems have also successfully defined themselves in recent decades by their positive amenities and attractions, and not their urban problems, e.g., NYC, San Francisco, and even Chicago.

On the other hand, Philly has traditionally been behind the curve in this regard, allowing itself to be defined nationally by its problems, and not its positive attributes and assets. Of course, that wasn't helped by the relatively sad and decaying state of Center City and surrounding neighborhoods--and the places seen by most visitors and tourists--throughout much of the '70s, '80s, and '90s. But even during that time period, Philly's historic and cultural assets compared quite well to those of other cities on a head-to-head basis. But, unlike those other cities, Philly was not defined by those assets in the public's mind in the latter half of the 20th Century. Fortunately, as we all know, that is changing rapidly. I would just like to see Philly do a better job than it has in the past of educating the public nationally about the breadth and depth of its assets and amenities compared to its competitor cities (e.g., largest collection of French impressionist and post-impressionist paintings outside of Paris, one of the largest and loveliest urban parks in the world, the virtual capital of competitive rowing in the country, largest indoor flower show in the world, literally hundreds of sidewalk cafes, one of the best foodie and restaurant scenes in the country, vibrant historic neighborhoods with the second most populous downtown in the country, a collection of world-class colleges, universities, and health-care facilities rivaled by only a few other cities in the country, etc., etc.). Of course, the urban problems Philly faces are somewhat intractable and difficult to solve--as they are in every other city--but Philly has more than enough assets and amenities that it need not be defined by those problems in the public mind, just as NYC, Boston, DC, Chicago, San Francisco, LA, etc. are not generally defined by their urban problems.

OK, lecture over. And yes, this will be on the final exam.
     
     
  #6036  
Old Posted May 26, 2016, 1:17 PM
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National perception of Phila doesn't really matter. So much economic activity in the region, more companies get started and the city gets a bigger piece of what goes on throughout the region and we'll be more than fine
     
     
  #6037  
Old Posted May 26, 2016, 1:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Larry King View Post
National perception of Phila doesn't really matter. So much economic activity in the region, more companies get started and the city gets a bigger piece of what goes on throughout the region and we'll be more than fine
I disagree. To compete as a world-class city in the post-industrial and tech-intensive future of the US economy, national and international perception are key. That's why Philly has spent so much time and treasure on things like the Pope's visit, getting the Democratic National Convention, becoming a World Heritage City, and lots of tourism and economic promotion in Europe and other places. To sustain true economic vitality, activity, and competitiveness in the future, Philly will have to be perceived widely as MORE than just a regional economic and cultural capital.
     
     
  #6038  
Old Posted May 26, 2016, 1:55 PM
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Not to perpetuate the conversation, but.... I'm surprised it hasn't been mentioned yet - Boston not only serves as the de facto capital of New England, it's also the capital of Massachusetts and holds considerable sway in the state. (It also helps that Mass is small and rather homogeneous.)

Philadelphia on the other hand, couldn't be more different. As has been said, we're dwarfed by DC and NY. But it's much more than that: within our state, Philadelphia is resented by many, and - partly due to our own poor leadership (but also due to PA being large and diverse) - has almost zero pull in state politics.

So you have one city that is quite powerful both regionally and within its state and another that not at all. I think that's a big deal. Not to mention how much added economic activity that comes with being a state capital.
     
     
  #6039  
Old Posted May 26, 2016, 2:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Larry King View Post
National perception of Phila doesn't really matter. So much economic activity in the region, more companies get started and the city gets a bigger piece of what goes on throughout the region and we'll be more than fine
From my own experience general perception of Philadelphia by people who have no specific interest in this city and never visited usually is somewhat negative. I also noticed that tourists usually explore the area close to Market st and some parts of it are far from being nice. In order to get why Philly you need to know where to go and it might not be the most obvious route if you are not familiar with the city. Hopefully the first impression will be improved after JFK park and Holocaust memorial renovations are finished.
     
     
  #6040  
Old Posted May 26, 2016, 2:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Philly Fan View Post
I disagree. To compete as a world-class city in the post-industrial and tech-intensive future of the US economy, national and international perception are key. That's why Philly has spent so much time and treasure on things like the Pope's visit, getting the Democratic National Convention, becoming a World Heritage City, and lots of tourism and economic promotion in Europe and other places. To sustain true economic vitality, activity, and competitiveness in the future, Philly will have to be perceived widely as MORE than just a regional economic and cultural capital.
There's enough businesses and $$ in montco and Chester to sustain the city easily, incredible amounts of wealth. The city needs a bigger piece of that which will happen. Combine that with us keeping more and more of the college kids that come here and we're in fine shape. Anxiety over Phillys perception in Europe or middle America or whatever is classic Phila inferiority complex, it's irrelevant... We're not going to be a major tourism destination or convince major out of region corporations to move here, that's not our thing. We'll be great by continuing to be a young entrepreneurial city surrounded by a strong wealthy region.
     
     
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