PHILADELPHIA | Highrise Development Thread IX

[1487]

Originally Posted by Tlphila

Yeah, I mean truly what is Kenny's logic? It's so foreign to me I can't even begin to understand how out of touch this guy seems to be. How does he not f..king get it... retaining / attracting the professional / creative class is literally the most important thing this city can do. Doing so will better all of our citizens lives!!! However, I do believe that there is such a strong wind of change in this city (IE example of Ori suing kenyatta) that we will see the old Philly political machine continue to die off, albeit too slowly. Ori for Mayor anyone? Haha

Ori couldnt even get enough people in his home district to elect him to council. He won't be mayor. And that's for the best. The fact that you can build houses doesn't make you qualified to be mayor. He is a single issue guy- he could care less about the general problems facing the city- which is something that would be a problem for a mayoral candidate.

I'm not sure what type of mayor Kenney will be and not much has happened in 4 months to give me a clear indication. In addition, he has never been implicated in any corruption or wrongdoing during his time in office. I will say that changing up the 4th of July celebration isn't really a clear sign to me that the city is doomed. Sorry, but I really don't place that much importance on that annual event. and for the record there were a lot of people who were critical of the programming over the past few years. Let's not pretend like ALL Philadelphians were happy about the Roots and Nicki Minaj on stage. So you are damned if you do, damned if you don't. The notion that there is going to be some massive revolt because everyone was so enamored with the Nutter led 4th of July programming is somewhat of an exaggeration. Mayor's change, things change- it happens every 8 years in this city. I read the Philly mag article and honestly found most of the issues being raised to be relatively unimportant.

[Cro Burnham]

Originally Posted by 1487

Thinking you can make an accurate assessment . . . is moronic. But I do have to consider the source.

To be considered a — by someone of your caliber is high praise indeed. Thank you!

[PhillySteaks]

3. The abatement is only on the improvement and that will last for 10 years. That is the ONLY thing your are guaranteed with the abatement. You are not protected against reassessments or overall millage increases. If you buy an abated property with the expectation that your tax bill will be exactly the same for 10 years you're stupid- period. The monthly expenses of regular homeowners increased several times during Nutter's term due to rate increases and AVI. Owners of abated properties are not the only ones who have faced increased bills. Anyone who hasn't been under rock knows that.


It's not black and white. You can't tell people they will have limited to no RE taxes if they buy new construction and then pull the switcheroo via a loophole by shifting value from improvements to land. I mean...you can...but you are going to piss a lot of people off. It's a shell game.

Also, it's not a matter of fact that you should anticipate your tax bill stay the same for 10 years. Yes, any idiot should know what inflation is. That being said your taxes should be increasing by inflation on these properties, not by 20%. 50%, 700%, etc. over a 3-4 year period. You need to look at this argument objectively and with less personal emotion. Look at the facts. People were given an incentive to have a low tax bill with some minor increases over a 10 year hold period and the city TOTALLY f'd them over via a loophole in how total property is assessed. Now yes the city is taking the right steps, but they are going about it all wrong - to which you may reply "so what". Well that attitude is exactly the reason why people end up leaving...they get sick of the philly shrug.

[1487]

Originally Posted by PhillySteaks

So many flaws to these statements. Do you not budget? People that don't like the abatements are more or less 1.) Jealous they don't have one or 2.) Don't understand the economics the incentive has on the city's GDP. It's easy to look at hard numbers and go - you have taxes? Wahhh, I want no taxes as well. The abatement was set up to incentivize NEW homeowners in Philadelphia - not existing ones that stayed in place. The homestead exemption act was created for them...and LOOP. The economic activity that is generated from not just the additional tax payers, but by their spending, and the spending on any new construction or rehab jobs outweighs the money lost over the short period of 10 years. There are many studies that prove this. Furthermore when you are incentivizing people to move here it's more or less a shell game to convince them to eat the wage tax. If you move to Philly, we'll let up on your RE tax to offset that new hit to your paycheck i.e wage tax. Now new people aren't losing money by moving to Philadelphia. After a few years pass the city realizes they poorly valued their holdings and are going back to those people and saying nevermind, we're gonna need that RE Tax too.

https://www.fels.upenn.edu/sites/www.fels.upenn.edu/files/abatement_fiscal_analysis.pdf

"When the current Abatement was enacted in 2000, Philadelphia saw a near-tripling of new home construction in the years that immediately followed. And, new home construction actually declined in its suburban counties during the same period. Not only did this construction expand Philadelphia’s tax base, it supported many well-paying construction jobs and attracted new residents to the City."

Dude, you can delude yourself into thinking I don't know the issues, but that's on you. I am fully aware of why the tax abatement was created and what it does and how many new homes have been constructed here. I don't need a lesson. I told you a FACT about how many feel about the abatements. Politicians are supposed to respond to voters and constituents. MANY people in these areas are not happy about the abatements and have voiced opposition to them. I can understand why some feel that way- I am not saying we should abandon abatements so no need to show me links to pro-abatement studies. My original point was the MAJORITY of homeowners in this city will not have sympathy for those facing relatively minor increases in their tax bill due to higher land values. You don't have to like it, I don't really care if you do or not- it's just reality. People can choose to buy a house wherever they want in Philadelphia. It's absurd to say if people didn't choose to buy $400k+ new construction homes they wouldn't have any other choices in the city and thus would be "forced" to look elsewhere. There are homes at all price points in Philadelphia, which is one of its perks. In addition, middle class people live in various parts of the city, not just parts where there are high percentages of newer homes. It's ridiculous to claim that without abatements there won't be a middle class in Philly. If that be the case it means we will loose all residents who currently live in abated properties once the abatements expire.

In case you didn't realize this, people who don't live in abated properties pay full property tax and the wage tax. Sorry, but I don't buy the argument that people in abated properties are owed a tax break because they pay the wage tax. If that's the case every homeowner is owed a discount. Even without the abatement philly property taxes are modest vs most suburbs. There is no comparison between the average middle class home tax bill in the city and in the suburbs- especially in comparison to south jersey.

[Knight Hospitaller]

Nothing says "reasoned debate" like people citing each other's idiocy as a fact.

[iheartphilly]

Originally Posted by Knight Hospitaller

Nothing says "reasoned debate" like people citing each other's idiocy as a fact.

Sorry, I had to chuckle here at my desk. Best comment ever on this thread! And, I hope no one claimed to be an"expert."

[1487]

Originally Posted by PhillySteaks

3. The abatement is only on the improvement and that will last for 10 years. That is the ONLY thing your are guaranteed with the abatement. You are not protected against reassessments or overall millage increases. If you buy an abated property with the expectation that your tax bill will be exactly the same for 10 years you're stupid- period. The monthly expenses of regular homeowners increased several times during Nutter's term due to rate increases and AVI. Owners of abated properties are not the only ones who have faced increased bills. Anyone who hasn't been under rock knows that.


It's not black and white. You can't tell people they will have limited to no RE taxes if they buy new construction and then pull the switcheroo via a loophole by shifting value from improvements to land. I mean...you can...but you are going to piss a lot of people off. It's a shell game.

Also, it's not a matter of fact that you should anticipate your tax bill stay the same for 10 years. Yes, any idiot should know what inflation is. That being said your taxes should be increasing by inflation on these properties, not by 20%. 50%, 700%, etc. over a 3-4 year period. You need to look at this argument objectively and with less personal emotion. Look at the facts. People were given an incentive to have a low tax bill with some minor increases over a 10 year hold period and the city TOTALLY f'd them over via a loophole in how total property is assessed. Now yes the city is taking the right steps, but they are going about it all wrong - to which you may reply "so what". Well that attitude is exactly the reason why people end up leaving...they get sick of the philly shrug.

inflation is not the only way a tax bill can increase. If the system was truly accurate your bill would increase in concert with your increased property value. That could happen yearly or biannually or however frequently OPA could actually assess properties. Per an inquirer article they are planning to implement software that will allow for citywide reassessments much more frequently and thus increases in value will be captured faster. People benefited from the pre-AVI system just as people benefited from the flaws in the land/improvement proportionality. People are OK with unfair systems when it benefits them. The pre-AVI system wasn't fair (you could even say it was corrupt) but those who were paying artificially low tax bills were OK with it. They were pro-appreciation when they sold their homes, but didn't feel that they should be taxed on all that appreciation that came along wit gentrification. I do not buy into this notion that people who can afford to buy a pricey rowhome with an abatement are owed special treatment because of their income. Even after these increases many of these folks will still be paying far less than other middle class people living on non abated homes that are worth less money.

Coincidentally someone wrote a letter to the editor today from the burbs complaining about a condo owner who was bitching about having to pay $600 in taxes on a $495,000 condo. This suburbanite was upset that Philly has petitioned for increased state funding for education when it's homeowners weren't (supposedly) pulling their weight as evidenced by this condo owner who wondered why his $98/year bill was going up. Not everyone views these owners as victims.

[Londonee]

Originally Posted by 1487

My original point was the MAJORITY of homeowners in this city will not have sympathy for those facing relatively minor increases in their tax bill due to higher land values. You don't have to like it, I don't really care if you do or not- it's just reality.

And breakdown the demo of this "majority" for me. Are they progressive, highly educated, highly mobile, urban-focused, upper middle-class wage-earners who are stuffing the city's bars, restaurants, shops and shows 24/7/365? Ya know, the group of people that every city is punching each other in the face to attract? The answer is no.

You understand that pleasing a group of 60something retirees from South or West Philly who are a net-loss to the city's coffers simply because they are a consistent and loyal voting block - and you want to stay in office - is not in the best interest of the city, right?

[Cro Burnham]

Originally Posted by Londonee

And breakdown the demo of this "majority" for me. Are they progressive, highly educated, highly mobile, urban-focused, upper middle-class wage-earners who are stuffing the city's bars, restaurants, shops and shows 24/7/365?

It is evident, Londonee, that he does not get this.

Unless he's actually a city employee, it's hard to understand the guy's refusal to understand this very basic reality.

[Outta here]

And now for something a little different ...... For those who have an interest in things of this nature , the observation
deck atop city hall will be closed for about a month in late summer for an over due scrubbing , waxing and sealing of
Mr. William Penn . This story was aired on abc6 news about an hour ago .

[summersm343]

Developer to honor Divine Lorraine's hotel heritage

Developer Eric Blumenfeld intends to bring the Divine Lorraine back to its hospitality roots with a planned boutique hotel in part of the 124-year-old North Broad Street property that's mostly being converted into apartments.

Blumenfeld is seeking an operator for a hotel, featuring 24 guest rooms, that would occupy the Divine Lorraine's less-ornate annex building, where the developer had previously planned additional apartment units, he said Wednesday.

"I mean, the sign on the roof says Divine Lorraine Hotel," Blumenfeld said in an interview during a tour of the property and his other area holdings for investors.

The developer plans 101 apartment units in the Divine Lorraine's main building, but has decided to hold off on leasing second-floor units in case there's an opportunity to use them as hotel rooms for extended-stay guests, he said.

Two upper-story units, meanwhile, have already been leased to renters, said Ed Casella, regional property manager for Blumenfeld's EB Realty Management Corp. Move-ins are expected by the end of 2016. Restaurant and boutique-retail tenants are still being sought for the building's ground floor and basement, Blumenfeld said.

Other new details to emerge about Blumenfeld's intentions for the area during the tour included plans for a shared-office facility, a Wawa convenience store, and - down the line - a 5,600-seat concert venue.

The tour, began at the former Thaddeus Stevens School of Observation at 523 N. Broad St., which Blumenfeld has renovated into a 56-unit apartment building.

A new retail structure planned on vacant land beside the building at the corner of Broad and Spring Garden Streets will accommodate the Wawa and a Bank of America Branch, according to New York-based financier Billy Procida, whose investment fund is helping to bankroll Blumenfeld's projects. A restaurant tenant is being sought to fill remaining space in the planned structure, Procida said.

About a block north at 667 N. Broad St., Blumenfeld is refurbishing a three-story structure into what he's calling the Studebaker building. Office-space-operator Regus is interested in leasing the building's top two floors for a 30,000-square-foot flexible workspace, Procida said. A "hip and groovy" restaurant tenant is being sought for the ground floor of that building, he said.

The tour concluded at the Metropolitan Opera at 858 N. Broad Street, a cavernous building with a 110,000-square-foot auditorium that was built in 1908 as an opera house but has since fallen into severe disrepair. Blumenfeld, who said he has a partial ownership stake in the building, plans a $35-million renovation of the structure into a venue for concerts and theatrical performances.

The project's backers are working on a deal with a concert promoter to operate the venue, Procida said.

"We see the Metropolitan Opera House as the secret weapon, not only for Broad Street, but for all of Philadelphia," Blumenfeld said. "It kind of shoots this plan to the moon."

Read more at http://www.philly.com/philly/business/20..._hotel_heritage.html#PQYh7Sxu825BQVPY.99

[summersm343]

Originally Posted by 1487

^ when they strip that ugly facade paneling off that building will look so much better. It's really horrible currently. I remember seeing renders a while ago of what PMC has in store and it's much more modern.

Here are the renderings and the website:





http://onefranklintower.com/index.html

[jsbrook]

Originally Posted by summersm343

Here are the renderings and the website:

http://onefranklintower.com/index.html

Not bad. I wish they'd do the same to Center City One, but it's condos and not rentals so less likely.

[allovertown]

Originally Posted by Cro Burnham

Unless he's actually a city employee, it's hard to understand the guy's refusal to understand this very basic reality.

At first I too thought he must be a city employee, but I've known people who work for the city, they normally have no problem admitting when Philly does something stupid.

I never seen anyone so completely trusting of the Philadelphia city government.

My working theory is the city government computer network somehow became sentient and found its way to skyscraperpage. Not sure how this happened but I'd be willing to bet my life that it's the joint effort of Wendy's and Bart Blatstein and they'll stop at nothing until the entire city is 10 floors off the ground and there's a Wendy's on every corner.

[hammersklavier]

What did I just step into.

[Philly-Drew]

Originally Posted by Boku

This is probably the dumbest argument of yours I've read on here, and that's saying something.

I couldn't agree with you more Boku! Sometimes 1487, you also have to look at yourself, as possibly being off base. I live in NoLibs, my house is probably worth around 900k, and I don't have an abatement. Most people moving into my neighborhood are in the $100K-$175k household range income range. Give them the abatement! Not nearly as many empty nesters here. I've paid more in city wage tax, in one year, than most of the "long term" residents have in 10 years on property tax. And that's Every year. Also, my spouse and I spend a heap load on restaraunts, uber, shopping, etc.

"A bird in hand is worth more than two in the bush!" We have a ton of bird in hands here. Development that will continue to pay dividends for years to come.

Get over the tax abatement. It is working wonders right now. All those abatement a will mature in 10 years.

[PhilliesPhan]

Originally Posted by summersm343

Developer to honor Divine Lorraine's hotel heritage



Read more at http://www.philly.com/philly/business/20..._hotel_heritage.html#PQYh7Sxu825BQVPY.99

Blumenfeld is going to lead the way towards North Broad being a hotbed of investment and development!

[kingtut]

A little insight into how CEO's view and rank our fifty states in terms of business environment .http://chiefexecutive.net/2016-best-and-worst-states-for-business-full-list/

[Sgalla04]

Originally Posted by kingtut

A little insight into how CEO's view and rank our fifty states in terms of business environment .http://chiefexecutive.net/2016-best-and-worst-states-for-business-full-list/

Interesting how the 6 worst states have the most businesses and growth in the country. I wish there was some context and an article around this ranking.

[Justin7]

Originally Posted by kingtut

A little insight into how CEO's view and rank our fifty states in terms of business environment .http://chiefexecutive.net/2016-best-and-worst-states-for-business-full-list/

https://wallethub.com/edu/states-most-least-dependent-on-the-federal-government/2700/