Sports in Canadian culture

[Nathan]

Originally Posted by elly63

I think they were planning a way for both you and I to get what we want.

I remember watching their proposal for it a few years back... I was unimpressed by it then as well.

[elly63]

Well, we know what is going on now isn't working and that stat on the amount of noncompetitive games was telling, so something has to change. More competitive games against better competition showcasing the best teams and games is the only way to get a higher profile. And find a way to do that while maintaining regular conference play.

Schedule exhibitions against name US opposition and play the leaf card to add some variety.

[Nathan]

Originally Posted by elly63

Well, we know what is going on now isn't working and that stat on the amount of noncompetitive games was telling, so something has to change. More competitive games against better competition showcasing the best teams and games is the only way to get a higher profile. And find a way to do that while maintaining regular conference play.

Schedule exhibitions against name US opposition and play the leaf card to add some variety.

What is happening now is basically nothing... So of course it isn't working. If they could just actually start televising games and advertising/covering the compeitions, they wouldn't need to come up with ideas like a superleague... They can choose some of the more competitive matchups within the conferences as they are and use them as a springboard for more exposure, there are more than enough of them across all the different sports within the conferences to create plenty of content. Exhibition games that try make use of some maple leaf waving tokenism would just be the finishing touch on that failure.

This is why I've become more and more disinterested with sports in Canada. The media coverage is so overblown on foreign leagues to which I have absolutely no connection, that I'd rather just find other avenues for my time. They've pushed so hard trying to get more Canadian interest in a cheaper product (in terms of their production costs), when we have something here already that would be much better served by their efforts. If TSN replicated what they did with the world juniors, but for CIS, we wouldn't even be having this discussion... but that would take investment and time before returns might be seen... It's rakes a while for an audience to be conditioned.

Maybe the CBC could get into that game... Amateur sports should be one of their prime concentrations now thay they've lost the rights to professional sports; it should be something they could pick up for a song and run with.

[elly63]

Originally Posted by Nathan

Exhibition games that try make use of some maple leaf waving tokenism would just be the finishing touch on that failure.

This is why I've become more and more disinterested with sports in Canada. The media coverage is so overblown on foreign leagues to which I have absolutely no connection, that I'd rather just find other avenues for my time. They've pushed so hard trying to get more Canadian interest in a cheaper product (in terms of their production costs), when we have something here already that would be much better served by their efforts. If TSN replicated what they did with the world juniors, but for CIS, we wouldn't even be having this discussion... but that would take investment and time before returns might be seen... It's rakes a while for an audience to be conditioned.

Don't know why the first paragraph would be a failure, as for the second, I've posted those very thoughts myself.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Nathan

This is why I've become more and more disinterested with sports in Canada. The media coverage is so overblown on foreign leagues to which I have absolutely no connection, that I'd rather just find other avenues for my time. They've pushed so hard trying to get more Canadian interest in a cheaper product (in terms of their production costs), when we have something here already that would be much better served by their efforts. If TSN replicated what they did with the world juniors, but for CIS, we wouldn't even be having this discussion... but that would take investment and time before returns might be seen... It's rakes a while for an audience to be conditioned.

.

That's actually been the way things have gone for me. A gradual disconnect from sports in Canada and sports in general. It's not that Canadian sports are a bad product, but it's so bloody hard to get decent coverage and even scores than I often just give up trying to find out who won. Spectactor sports are a commercial *product*, people. I shouldn't have to dig in order to get info about it. The info should be in my face or at least very easy to find.

I used to be a huge sports fan but now I've branched out into other stuff more. I still pay attention to sports but I dabble in stuff like European and international soccer more, Australian rules football, rugby, etc.

As I've said before the NHL playoffs are a total write-off for me this year.

Regarding my sports interests, given my upbriging I could totally buy into the NFL, NCAA Bowls, March Madness, etc. stuff with very little adjustment, but that would be letting them win, and biting at the hook and what they've been trying to force-feed us for the last 20 or 30 years.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by Acajack;7435479e

As I've said before the NHL playoffs are a total write-off for me this year.

If all it takes for you to lose interest in a sport is the name and location of the teams then perhaps you weren't that big a fan of the sport afterall.

Seriously folks, if you want Canadian playoff hockey the CHL features an abundance of Canadian teams across the country that are nationally competitive. It's still hockey.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by JHikka

If all it takes for you to lose interest in a sport is the name and location of the teams then perhaps you weren't that big a fan of the sport afterall.

Canada must not be a very big hockey country by that measure given that millions of people who would be riveted by Canadian teams in the playoffs have tuned out completely this year.

There has been next to no buzz around here for the playoffs this year. Seriously, the only real kind of water cooler/social media buzz I've picked up on was for that guy in St. Louis. People in Winnipeg are far more likely to discuss the Jets' likely draft choices than anything happening in the playoffs right now, although I'm sure that will change as the finals draw closer.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by JHikka

If all it takes for you to lose interest in a sport is the name and location of the teams then perhaps you weren't that big a fan of the sport afterall.

Seriously folks, if you want Canadian playoff hockey the CHL features an abundance of Canadian teams across the country that are nationally competitive. It's still hockey.

TBQH I've been progressively cooling on the NHL for quite some time, for a variety of reasons. Saying that this is the straw that broke the camel's back might be a bit much, as it's true that it's just a question of circumstance that all Canadian teams were out this year.

On the other hand, I happen to think that all-American NHL playoffs will be more common in the future and less of a newsworthy, exceptional thing.

There will be ups and downs of course but the trendline (which was posted here in recent months) shows fewer Canadian teams qualifying for the playoffs on average as time goes on.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by esquire

Canada must not be a very big hockey country by that measure given that millions of people who would be riveted by Canadian teams in the playoffs have tuned out completely this year.

There has been next to no buzz around here for the playoffs this year. Seriously, the only real kind of water cooler/social media buzz I've picked up on was for that guy in St. Louis. People in Winnipeg are far more likely to discuss the Jets' likely draft choices than anything happening in the playoffs right now, although I'm sure that will change as the finals draw closer.

Yeah, if the Great Canadian 2016 NHL Tuneout is a tantrum, it's a hell of a big collective tantrum.

I echo what you said about hockey interest right now: it's been more about the Senators and Habs draft picks than anything.

I do suspect there will be lots of interest in the World Cup of Hockey this fall.

Another good point is that the NHL does not own hockey. We don't have to follow the NHL in order to be hockey fans.

[elly63]

Originally Posted by JHikka

If all it takes for you to lose interest in a sport is the name and location of the teams then perhaps you weren't that big a fan of the sport afterall.

I go back to something Bob McCown used to say about needing a "rooting interest"

Like the others above my interest in the NHL and most of the "Big Four" sports has dropped to near zero. Things like the Americanization of the coverage (whatever that means) over-saturation, corporatization (if that's even a word) and the overpaying of entitled spoiled athletes have made me lose interest over time.

I go to the TSN front page and see coverage of American teams and athletes who I share nothing in common with when at least I could make a connection if it was something in Canada.

Getting back to the concept of a "rooting interest", I could get behind St Louis as being a team that hasn't won the Cup but that's as close as I get this year.

[Nathan]

Originally Posted by elly63

Don't know why the first paragraph would be a failure, as for the second, I've posted those very thoughts myself.

I guess I should clarify... They have failed to do anything to promote their product in its current form (more their own doing than anything else), so they are trying to come up with the "superleague" idea as a way to gain interest, which I view as a gimic that has resulted from the above failure. With that in mind, adding on another gimic (exhibition games featuring maple leaf flag waving tokenism) is the finishing touch on the above failures.

[elly63]

I guess we disagree as I see neither of those as a gimmick but a well calculated plan to have a positive effect for growth.

Why would we play American opposition? Because there is a large number of people out there who have only been exposed to the American product and believe it is far superior. If we are able to go head to head with them it disproves proves the fallacy that we have inferior athletes.

Now there are some who are such wannabees that nothing will ever convince them but others can be convinced. And afterwards, like a reformed smoker, they can become your best salesmen.

I think you are also missing the point that new leadership at the CIS is trying to make a change from the status quo. You're seeing it from a point of desperation, I am seeing it as a well thought out plan for growth and exposure. And I am not speaking about what was discussed in the past but what they learned from those discussions and will use to help create a better plan.

Was NCAA football creating a gimmick when they tried to create a way to crown a true national champion instead of the way it was previously done. They were just trying to correct what they saw as a problem.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by esquire

Canada must not be a very big hockey country by that measure given that millions of people who would be riveted by Canadian teams in the playoffs have tuned out completely this year.

Don't worry though, hockey is Canada's game and how dare anyone else even try to remotely lay claim to it. How dare they even attempt to think that Canadians wouldn't live and breathe hockey at all times through the year regardless of teams or players or interests.

Canadians are casual hockey fans when they want to be just like any other sport in any other country.

Originally Posted by Acajack

TBQH I've been progressively cooling on the NHL for quite some time, for a variety of reasons. Saying that this is the straw that broke the camel's back might be a bit much, as it's true that it's just a question of circumstance that all Canadian teams were out this year.

So do you like hockey or do you like Canadian teams? There is a difference. You can be absolutely in love with a sport or you can only watch it when Canadian teams are playing.

Originally Posted by Acajack

On the other hand, I happen to think that all-American NHL playoffs will be more common in the future and less of a newsworthy, exceptional thing.

Why does this matter? An overwhelming majority of the players are still Canadian. It's literally just where the games are being played that's different. All of this nonsense about Canadian teams winning the Cup is blown so out of proportion it's silly. Canadians cheering for Canadian teams doesn't make it any more likely that they'll win or not. It's mostly out of your hands. If anything, the parity that North American leagues create with the draft takes even more power out of the fan's hands by giving shit teams an equal shot at winning.

Originally Posted by Acajack

There will be ups and downs of course but the trendline (which was posted here in recent months) shows fewer Canadian teams qualifying for the playoffs on average as time goes on.

Because they're some of the worst managed teams in the League.

Originally Posted by elly63

Like the others above my interest in the NHL and most of the "Big Four" sports has dropped to near zero. Things like the Americanization of the coverage (whatever that means) over-saturation, corporatization (if that's even a word) and the overpaying of entitled spoiled athletes have made me lose interest over time.

That's the nature of North American franchise-led sports, though, in general. It's an exclusive club and one that you'll never be privileged enough to join. Canada isn't strong enough to have it's own major professional leagues on the same level and has to leech off of American interests to stay afloat and relevant.

This is why I find European football immensely more fascinating on a scale that North American leagues will never match. Two examples in England this year, Burton Albion and AFC Wimbledon, are smaller clubs that are climbing their way up to relevancy in the English system. One is a club so small that many never imagined they would ever compete in the 2nd tier, but they will be next season. The other is a fan-owned phoenix club that has risen from the ashes of their former club which was taken away from them. They, too, are climbing up the ladder, with promotion possible in a few weeks.

None of these things are possible in North America. It's where North American leagues lose out on maintaining interest in larger cities and smaller regions as a whole. You'll never be able to own a professional sports team in North America to the same degree, and even if you do (Roughriders or Packers) you'll never be able to ascend from such lows that these teams have in their small locales. European systems benefit wise management, fan support, solvent finances, and a plethora of other activities that teams in North America are protected from. Bad teams are bad and are punished, good teams are good and are rewarded. This is why a team like Leicester can win the biggest sports league in the world and why Canadian-based hockey teams are offered no benefit by being based in Canada.


wikipedia

[esquire]

Originally Posted by JHikka

Why does this matter? An overwhelming majority of the players are still Canadian. It's literally just where the games are being played that's different. All of this nonsense about Canadian teams winning the Cup is blown so out of proportion it's silly. Canadians cheering for Canadian teams doesn't make it any more likely that they'll win or not. It's mostly out of your hands. If anything, the parity that North American leagues create with the draft takes even more power out of the fan's hands by giving shit teams an equal shot at winning.

Reread elly's post about rooting interest. Most people aren't hardcore sports fans, it's really about something fun and entertaining that brings communities together. You can scoff at it if you want and deride people as fairweather hockey fans, but the ratings speak for themselves.

When I'm deciding what to do on a nice spring evening like tonight, the fact that neither of the teams playing hockey are from my city makes a huge difference. I'm sure tonight's game will be compelling and dramatic and all that, but I'm still not staying inside to watch. And the same can be said for literally millions of others.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by JHikka

None of these things are possible in North America. It's where North American leagues lose out on maintaining interest in larger cities and smaller regions as a whole. You'll never be able to own a professional sports team in North America to the same degree, and even if you do (Roughriders or Packers) you'll never be able to ascend from such lows that these teams have in their small locales. .

For any of the pro sports teams that I support, I'd be perfectly happy with the Packers' success rate over the past 20 years:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...ackers_seasons

[HomeInMyShoes]

I was struck by this question.

Originally Posted by JHikka

So do you like hockey or do you like Canadian teams? There is a difference. You can be absolutely in love with a sport or you can only watch it when Canadian teams are playing.

I am probably in the rare camp of just loving hockey and really loving the NHL. Maybe that's because I've moved around so much and lived in a few NHL cities and a few non-NHL cities. It's my love of the game. So I'll watch the Rangers which everyone hates, because Lundqvist is great and I find the hockey stories in the playoffs really interesting. We've got Crosby trying to win another cup and this time Fleury's writing is on the wall as he's not even playing.

Ovechkin is trying to exorcise the playoff demons, but his team just isn't there yet even though they dominated the Eastern conference all year, but the Penguins dominated it when it mattered.

Tampa Bay is proving me wrong and winning without Stamkos. While the quality of opponents might not be Pittsburgh or Washington yet, they are not screwing around dispatching the opponents. It was a sweep against the Islanders if not for one bad game by Bishop.

San Jose might be exorcising their demons. St. Louis trying to do the same. I can't wait for that matchup if it happens and the converse series is interesting to me to boot. Rinne has been one of the best netminders over the years with nothing to show for it. Dallas is trying to prove a team with suspect defense can win when the offense is that crazy.

Canada might have tuned out, but every night I am checking the scores and am disappointed when there's no game to follow.

[rousseau]

Originally Posted by JHikka

This is why a team like Leicester can win the biggest sports league in the world...

I think the European football system is awesome too, and I love how organic the community involvement is at the levels under the elite level, but a point of clarification here: Leicester's win is like a moonshot from the Angolan space program. The reason that it's the greatest sports story of all time is that we'll never see the likes of it again.

The chances of a sad-sack team like the Leafs eventually winning the Cup (yeah, I know, stop laughing) are about 300 million times greater than a side like, say, Sheffield Wednesday ever winning the Premiership. The salary cap produces greater parity in North American sports, but in European football the sky's the limit when it comes to how much dough an owner is willing to blow.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by JHikka

Don't worry though, hockey is Canada's game and how dare anyone else even try to remotely lay claim to it. How dare they even attempt to think that Canadians wouldn't live and breathe hockey at all times through the year regardless of teams or players or interests.

Canadians are casual hockey fans when they want to be just like any other sport in any other country.


So do you like hockey or do you like Canadian teams? There is a difference. You can be absolutely in love with a sport or you can only watch it when Canadian teams are playing.


Why does this matter? An overwhelming majority of the players are still Canadian. It's literally just where the games are being played that's different. All of this nonsense about Canadian teams winning the Cup is blown so out of proportion it's silly. Canadians cheering for Canadian teams doesn't make it any more likely that they'll win or not. It's mostly out of your hands. If anything, the parity that North American leagues create with the draft takes even more power out of the fan's hands by giving shit teams an equal shot at winning.

I don't understand what's so mystifying about Canadians losing interest in a league where we're increasingly always on the outside looking in just when it starts to get interesting.

Europeans from all countries pay attention to the Champions League even if there are no teams from their country playing, but they've also got national leagues and championships taking place around the same time. Every year.

Right now there is no Canadian pro hockey team playing for anything meaningful at all. In any competition. (Arguably, it's been five years since it was last the case.)

And we are supposed to believe that this all of is inconsequential. OK, sure.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by rousseau

I think the European football system is awesome too, and I love how organic the community involvement is at the levels under the elite level, but a point of clarification here: Leicester's win is like a moonshot from the Angolan space program. The reason that it's the greatest sports story of all time is that we'll never see the likes of it again.

The chances of a sad-sack team like the Leafs eventually winning the Cup (yeah, I know, stop laughing) are about 300 million times greater than a side like, say, Sheffield Wednesday ever winning the Premiership. The salary cap produces greater parity in North American sports, but in European football the sky's the limit when it comes to how much dough an owner is willing to blow.

I also like the promotion-relegation system. Though I don't think we could ever switch to that with our leagues here in NA as the status quoi is too lucrative.

And sadly, I think it's days might be numbered in at least some European countries.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I don't understand what's so mystifying about Canadians losing interest in a league where we're increasingly always on the outside looking in just when it starts to get interesting.

Europeans from all countries pay attention to the Champions League even if there are no teams from their country playing, but they've also got national leagues and championships taking place around the same time. Every year.

Right now there is no Canadian pro hockey team playing for anything meaningful at all. In any competition. (Arguably, it's been five years since it was last the case.)

And we are supposed to believe that this all of is inconsequential. OK, sure.

At the end of the day I think it comes down to people having better things to do with their lives than to watch two months of playoff hockey each night every spring, but they will make an exception when their favourite team (usually the home team) gets in... if I watched all the playoff games every single year, I'd probably be divorced by now.

I think this is partly why Olympic hockey and the WJHC are such popular events... you can follow them closely without the massive time commitment that the NHL playoffs require (it helps that the latter is played when many people are off work/school).