Speech pattern and typographical variations across Canada

[Loco101]

Originally Posted by lio45

Do you guys consider "lil' shits" to be a standard semi-affectionate descriptor for turbulent kids?

I had never heard that previously... Our upstairs tenants in Lévis have two elementary school aged boys, who are generally pretty adorable, and lately my gf texted me that we'd have to put a lock on her shed (which didn't lock) because the lil shits went in there and messed with her stuff.

I thought she was pretty angry with them (in my mind, I had read that as "the little pieces of 🞵🞵🞵🞵 did XYZ") but apparently it's not that bad in terms of meaning.

Since then of course it's become a running gag between us... for example, since our tenants have stuff that's theirs in the shed, I was asked to explain to them that we had added a lock (I'm pretty much always the official translator) so of course I reported to my gf that I had informed them she had complained about their "little 🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵 🞵🞵 🞵🞵🞵🞵 kids" going in there, etc.

I'm just wondering if it's widespread, or just very regional... and as a non-native speaker, I'm surprised that there's apparently a pretty major difference between calling someone a lil' 🞵🞵🞵🞵 and calling someone a 🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵 🞵🞵 🞵🞵🞵🞵.

My wife is a teacher and sometimes when she gets home after a day her students were bad she'll tell me that they were lil' shits. I also find it means the same as calling them lil' rascals or lil' brats. I think the term is used in most places where English is spoken but I've never really looked into it.

[Loco101]

Originally Posted by hipster duck

People do that? I can't imagine somebody from Ganonoque affecting a British accent.

OTOH, the other night I went to an event the other night where one of the speakers was an academic who grew up in "Toron-toe". She made a point of emphasizing her consonants. She also prefaced her speech by talking about how she had overcome "adversity" as a woman and person of colour, despite the fact that her parents were both doctors and she had attended some kind of international school. It was barfworthy, really.

Aww, the poor thing.

I have found that many wealthier Torontonians speak that way to try to make themselves appear above the crowd.

[Loco101]

Originally Posted by Bcasey25raptor

The accent these people have is very pronounced and strong, something i'd expect out of an American comedy poking fun at Canadians. I always assumed that was mostly exaggerated but in fort mac the individuals there speak a very strong almost comical accent. Maybe it's the influence of newfoundland, I don't know.

I live in Northern Ontario and don't really find their accents unusual. Definitely Atlantic influence in some of the people but for the ones born there I find them to be exactly the same as someone in Timmins. Fort Mac and Timmins are resource based cities and not places with universities. People aren't trying to prove something when they talk and are just themselves.

Oh, and another thing. Both cities are far away from the U.S. border which sort of makes them different from much of where most Canadians live.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by Loco101

Aww, the poor thing.

I have found that many wealthier Torontonians speak that way to try to make themselves appear above the crowd.

There is a difference between speaking as a well-educated, upper class Torontonian to the manor born and affecting a British accent. I have known people who affected British accents (one born and raised in Winnipeg, the other a woman from Perth who had an accent that roamed from the Rideau Valley to the Home Counties to someplace in Australia, depending on how many drinks she had in her. Both came across as twats.

[rousseau]

Originally Posted by hipster duck

well frankly i question your ability to check your privilege since you failed to acknowledge that you are typing from the unceded territory of the anish'naabe mississauga first nations and that you are their guest

secondly you will note that i have dispensed with conventions of grammar or capitalization since the english language is a tool of oppression and structures and privileges patriarchal white anglo saxon thinking

finally i question your use of an excel spreadsheet to catalog your offenders as we all know the spreadsheet is a modernist cartesian grid system of organization similar to the cadastral land map that was invented by white male settlers to erase indigenous cultures and ways of knowledge

My acknowledgement of the problematic nature of my location, my language and my software go without saying, and should have been taken as read. But of course these are futile gestures if you're not even a breatharian.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by Loco101

I live in Northern Ontario and don't really find their accents unusual. Definitely Atlantic influence in some of the people but for the ones born there I find them to be exactly the same as someone in Timmins. Fort Mac and Timmins are resource based cities and not places with universities. People aren't trying to prove something when they talk and are just themselves.

Oh, and another thing. Both cities are far away from the U.S. border which sort of makes them different from much of where most Canadians live.

With the exception of Windsor, Ontario, I've never seen it suggested that proximity to the border influences one's Canadian accent.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by hipster duck

People do that?

No, they don't.

But if they did, it would be a case (pretty much the only one) of that accent getting negative attention.

The French accent isn't perceived as negatively as it used to be here.

[Stingray2004]

Curious... do any Québécois here detect an accent from those residing on Saint Pierre et Miquelon? If so, is it more of a mainland France accent... or somewhere in between mainland France/Québec?

[kwoldtimer]

If there were such a thing as the perfect example of the Canadian English accent, who would exemplify it? I'm thinking it would be someone of British heritage, old money, probably coming out of UCC or LCC and educated at least in part at UofT or McGill.

Could it be Conrad Black?

I wonder if any descendants of the Eaton family still live in Canada and, if so, what they sound like? Or perhaps a Southam or a Molson?

[lio45]

Originally Posted by Stingray2004

Curious... do any Québécois here detect an accent from those residing on Saint Pierre et Miquelon? If so, is it more of a mainland France accent... or somewhere in between mainland France/Québec?

I'm pretty sure they'd sound totally like "generic France French" (northern) to the average Québécois.

I have never met anyone from there, and I've also never been to either Newfoundland or PMS, though I'd love to visit these places.

I suppose I could look up examples of their speech online and I'd be able to give you a more definitive answer

[Loco101]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

With the exception of Windsor, Ontario, I've never seen it suggested that proximity to the border influences one's Canadian accent.

I didn't really mean accent but the way they speak. I find that in Fort Mac and in Timmins a lot of people speak more slowly and in a kind of more relaxed manner.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by Loco101

I didn't really mean accent but the way they speak. I find that in Fort Mac and in Timmins a lot of people speak more slowly and in a kind of more relaxed manner.

Probably a small town thing, no? In Toronto, speaking slowly costs you money!

[Loco101]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

Probably a small town thing, no? In Toronto, speaking slowly costs you money!

Timmins and Fort Mac are both cities and regional centres and not small towns. But the rest of Northern Ontario with exception to a few people in the larger cities is the same.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by Loco101

Timmins and Fort Mac are both cities and regional centres and not small towns. But the rest of Northern Ontario with exception to a few people in the larger cities is the same.

Sorry, I've been to Timmins. It is "small town", even if not "a small town". Everything I've ever seen about Fort McMurray, which I've not been to in over 30 years, suggests it is of a similar condition. Keep in mind that I also think of K-W as "small town", although in the process of graduating out of the club.

[Loco101]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

Sorry, I've been to Timmins. It is "small town", even if not "a small town". Everything I've ever seen about Fort McMurray, which I've not been to in over 30 years, suggests it is of a similar condition. Keep in mind that I also think of K-W as "small town", although in the process of graduating out of the club.

Oh okay, fair enough.

[wg_flamip]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

Re Brampton, I find that young ethnic GTA is sounding less and less Canadian. It's not a new thing by any means, but to me the divergence is becoming more pronounced, so to speak.

I'm trying to put my finger on what you mean by "young ethnic GTA." Someone like Jagmeet Singh maybe?

• Video Link

Or these young people?

• Video Link

Their accents aren't the stereotypical Canadian one, but they're thoroughly of Canada IMO. Canadian raising remains intact, "sorry" and "sari" are not homophones, and the Canadian shift is strongly on display. The GTA is kind of a ground zero for the Canadian shift where front lax vowels (short "i", "e" and "a") are lowered/retracted; it has slowly spread across the country, but is most completed in young people in Toronto and environs. There has been a similar (and somewhat related) vowel shift occurring in California independently of what's happening here. Since we get a lot of our media from California, we may mistake the Canadian shift for an American import.

Of course, you also get splashes of "ethnic flavour" in various pockets of the GTA as well (here, for example), but the base remains firmly Canadian in character.

[kwoldtimer]

Good explanation. The Sikh chap is a better example, to my ear, but clearly an educated person so not as strong an accent as you would get, for example, from an ethnic teenager living in the city. Perhaps some of it fades out as people reach adulthood?

P.S. Do not call me "brah". I am not your "brah" nor do I wear a "brah".

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

With the exception of Windsor, Ontario, I've never seen it suggested that proximity to the border influences one's Canadian accent.

Denizens of Charlotte County NB (especially Deer & Campobello Islands) can have a very pronounced "down east" Maine accent.

[Andy6]

Around the Sault, I used to notice what sounded like a Michigander twang in some working class people. Can't say I have of late, but cross-border ties are a lot weaker these days.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by Andy6

Around the Sault, I used to notice what sounded like a Michigander twang in some working class people. Can't say I have of late, but cross-border ties are a lot weaker these days.

Cross border ties are dwindling here too (especially with the new border restrictions since 9/11), so I expect the down east accent in Charlotte County will gradually wither away, to be replaced by "standard Canadian".

The only exception to this might be Campobello Island, which is essentially an exclave, and is only accessible from the mainland by two ferry rides (with Deer Island in the middle), and in the winter time is only accessible by a one hour drive through Maine and a trip across the international bridge at Lubec.

By any measure (FDR included), Campobello should belong to the USA, but I'm glad it's Canadian. It's a delightful island.........