General Updates and News

[Ziobrop]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

I thought the Joe Howe bldg (just past Province House in the pic) was being gutted and redeveloped? Looks pretty occupied.

It was. DOJ is in there

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by Drybrain

The argument that there's insufficient economic case for restoration doesn't wash at all, to me. They just didn't want to do it.

Well, there's not anything wrong with that.

The buildings were not registered heritage properties. As we have seen on here, there is hardly unanimous opinion that they should have been saved. At some point most buildings get torn down and new things get built. Halifax seems to have a larger than normal group of people who do not want anything to ever change.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

The buildings were not registered heritage properties. As we have seen on here, there is hardly unanimous opinion that they should have been saved. At some point most buildings get torn down and new things get built. Halifax seems to have a larger than normal group of people who do not want anything to ever change.

The current heritage regulations are out of step with the modern pace of development in the city. They worked okay when there wasn't much development pressure but today buildings are being torn down so quickly that the 1940's and 50's stuff won't even survive long enough to be registered unless something changes. Most of it is already gone or seriously compromised.

Good preservation would be very different from trying to ensure that nothing ever changes. There are lots of plain buildings and empty lots that could go without any loss of significant character, and there's lots of room for adaptive reuse of the old buildings. If the regulations were better the city would have the best of both worlds, with more development potential (through height/density bonuses) and more character preservation.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

Halifax seems to have a larger than normal group of people who do not want anything to ever change.

That very statement indicates that you have no understanding of heritage preservation whatsoever.

This is not breaking news, I realize, but sometimes the obvious must be stated.

[pchipman]

some news coverage on the possible Steele expansion:
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scoti...da-steele-auto-group-expansion-1.3558767

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

That very statement indicates that you have no understanding of heritage preservation whatsoever.

This is not breaking news, I realize, but sometimes the obvious must be stated.

What is not "breaking news" is that these are in no way, shape, or form, "heritage properties". The day they were built they were not anything special. They are currently one short circuit away from being a smouldering pile of rubble. A slum would be a term closer to correct than "heritage property".

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

What is not "breaking news" is that these are in no way, shape, or form, "heritage properties". The day they were built they were not anything special. They are currently one short circuit away from being a smouldering pile of rubble. A slum would be a term closer to correct than "heritage property".

Whether I agree or disagree with you, I always enjoy the wit in your responses.

[Drybrain]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

What is not "breaking news" is that these are in no way, shape, or form, "heritage properties". The day they were built they were not anything special. They are currently one short circuit away from being a smouldering pile of rubble. A slum would be a term closer to correct than "heritage property".

Regardless, heritage isn't really the issue here; it's whether the proposed use post-demolition is an improvement, which it decidedly is not.

[Nor'easter]

Playing devil's advocate here but if we can get a widening of Robie and possibly even North, and it all gets sold to a developer in 10 years anyway, is it really such a big deal?

I'm a big fan of Halifax, I like where things are heading and am looking forward to the future of the city. I wish that land was worthy of something more than a parking lot, but if it was, it's pretty safe to say the free market would have spoken differently. If our city continues to grow, eventually the scale will tip the other way and I'm sure Steele will be happy to sell for a handsome profit and move his dealership elsewhere.

[someone123]

Rising land prices probably would increase the pressure to build more than a parking lot on this land but the "free market" model fails to account for the fact that some land uses depress the value of other land nearby. It could be worse but a car dealership is not a great neighbour, and houses backing onto it with small yards probably won't be that desirable. Car-oriented development quickly kills pedestrian friendliness and pedestrian friendliness is one of the factors that drives up land values. It's also something that only exists in a tiny part of the city and it should be encouraged and protected.

The free market is also a bit of a misnomer here because there are all kinds of other factors at play. For example in this area it's much easier to create a parking lot than it is to develop buildings over four floors.

At the end of the day the city simply needs better urban planning if it's to reach its potential. An expanded car dealership just isn't an appropriate use for the fine-grained, pedestrian-oriented area around North and Robie. A laissez-faire faux free market approach based on leaving 1970's planning rules in place may sort of work in the long run but it would be much worse than many alternatives available.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by Drybrain

Regardless, heritage isn't really the issue here; it's whether the proposed use post-demolition is an improvement, which it decidedly is not.

Yeah, it's all just a pointless argument over semantics, really.

Whether something is deemed "heritage" or not isn't the point. If the building has significance to the community, whether it be for historical, aesthetic, or other reasons, it should be worth saving, even if it's just a facade. Whether it has a faulty electrical system (or whatever) is not really the issue, but it makes great messageboard fodder - a lazy argument that's much easier than actually addressing the issue.

However in a city like Halifax where there are no rules to keep this in check, it always just comes down to a simple, soulless business case. It is at the total discretion of the developer, and what kind of mark he/she wants to leave as a legacy. In most cases this legacy is a poor quality building and a healthy bank account - and it's sad that so many seem to be OK with their 'contribution' to the world.

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

Whether something is deemed "heritage" or not isn't the point. If the building has significance to the community, whether it be for historical, aesthetic, or other reasons, it should be worth saving, even if it's just a facade. Whether it has a faulty electrical system (or whatever) is not really the issue, but it makes great messageboard fodder - a lazy argument that's much easier than actually addressing the issue.

Oh, come ON.

That is EXACTLY the kind of mindset that keeps NS stuck in the mud. "Don't ever change ANYTHING, because it is of some degree of importance to someone somewhere". No — wonder we have such a mishmash of old crummpy buildings and cartpath streets.

However in a city like Halifax where there are no rules to keep this in check, it always just comes down to a simple, soulless business case. It is at the total discretion of the developer, and what kind of mark he/she wants to leave as a legacy. In most cases this legacy is a poor quality building and a healthy bank account - and it's sad that so many seem to be OK with their 'contribution' to the world.

It is hilarious to see you using an argument of a newly built "poor quality building" to somehow try to defend keeping these old falling-down places on May St. Have you ever heard the expression "I have eyes, but they cannot see..."?

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by someone123

Car-oriented development quickly kills pedestrian friendliness and pedestrian friendliness is one of the factors that drives up land values.

A car dealership in the middle of a dense part of the city is not exactly "car-oriented development". Maybe if they build a cafe inside the showroom it will suddenly be considered compliant with the Toderian Code.

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by Nor'easter

Playing devil's advocate here but if we can get a widening of Robie and possibly even North, and it all gets sold to a developer in 10 years anyway, is it really such a big deal?

I'm a big fan of Halifax, I like where things are heading and am looking forward to the future of the city. I wish that land was worthy of something more than a parking lot, but if it was, it's pretty safe to say the free market would have spoken differently. If our city continues to grow, eventually the scale will tip the other way and I'm sure Steele will be happy to sell for a handsome profit and move his dealership elsewhere.

Exactly. This is all such a ridiculous kerfuffle that it could only happen in Hali-hipsterville.

[Jonovision]

A slightly more robust awning is being installed to replace the scaffolding on the Chives building.

[Drybrain]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

Exactly. This is all such a ridiculous kerfuffle that it could only happen in Hali-hipsterville.

You don't really think that ONLY Haligonians would have a problem with two dozen inner-city houses for a parking lot, do you?

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by Drybrain

You don't really think that ONLY Haligonians would have a problem with two dozen inner-city houses for a parking lot, do you?

It's not a parking lot, it is a car dealership/serivce center. A very profitable and successful business that employs probably 50 or more people, in a location many customers find extremely convenient. It's not like they are tearing down old architecturally-designed mansions on Young Ave.

[pblaauw]

Originally Posted by pblaauw

The 'For Sale' signs are gone from the property(ies?) surrounding the Eastlink store. The unsightly premises citation is still tacked to the Spring Garden side.

When I went by on the bus today, there was a CAT excavator on the South Park side of the lot.

[Metalsales]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

It's not a parking lot, it is a car dealership/serivce center. A very profitable and successful business that employs probably 50 or more people, in a location many customers find extremely convenient. It's not like they are tearing down old architecturally-designed mansions on Young Ave.

I 100% agree. I see no issue with this. This is a business in a very central location, trying to expand.

I hear a lot of people on here making negative comments when a business chooses a location in a business park or outside the core, but now a business wants to be there and expand, and it is all negative feedback. This location is very convenient, especially for those who work in the core

Yes they are tearing down some houses, but honestly, nothing of any significance to Halifax. There are many more of these all over Halifax. They are being paid well for their properties and it is the owners choice to sell or not

[OliverD]

Originally Posted by Metalsales

I 100% agree. I see no issue with this. This is a business in a very central location, trying to expand.

I hear a lot of people on here making negative comments when a business chooses a location in a business park or outside the core, but now a business wants to be there and expand, and it is all negative feedback. This location is very convenient, especially for those who work in the core

Yes they are tearing down some houses, but honestly, nothing of any significance to Halifax. There are many more of these all over Halifax. They are being paid well for their properties and it is the owners choice to sell or not

I can see both sides of the argument here.

The location is definitely convenient for people who live on the peninsula. It's also not entirely out of place, as that area seems to be directly adjacent to that commercial corridor that stretches between Robie/Massachusetts and Windsor.

On the other hand, a car dealership is not a particularly attractive business and it certainly doesn't enhance a neighborhood from a pedestrian's POV.

Are we sure what Steele's intent is for the land? The Honda dealership is definitely on the small side but it looks like they would triple the footprint. Perhaps they want to have two dealerships on the site? The cost of acquiring all of this land and tearing down buildings also seems quite high for a single dealership.

It's also worth pointing out that in some city cores car dealerships blend in better. They store cars both underground and on their roof (the new Audi dealer has indoor storage for example), they have minimal setbacks from the road, etc. I don't think it would be unreasonable for Halifax to want car dealers in this neighborhood to not resemble the typical dealerships that are on Kempt Road.

Another article about this was just posted this morning: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scoti...-halifax-north-end-development-1.3559876

The article mentions that the typical cluster of dealerships is convenient for customers but that's really only when buying. In terms of servicing it isn't necessarily true, especially if the cluster is located on the outskirts of a town.