LeBreton Flats 2.0 (RendezVous LeBreton) | Cancelled

[Boxster]

"Stephen Willis, the NCC’s chief planner, predicted it could take three to five years before construction begins on LeBreton Flats"

Amazing bureaucracy!!! 3 to 5 means 5 or more given history.

Melnyk might never see the completed project.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by Boxster

"Stephen Willis, the NCC’s chief planner, predicted it could take three to five years before construction begins on LeBreton Flats"

Amazing bureaucracy!!! 3 to 5 means 5 or more given history.

Melnyk might never see the completed project.

Local MPs will want construction to start before the 2019 election.

[McC]

yes bureaucracy, but not just bureaucracy. The ORAP works have to be completed first and that and the site cleanup will take a substantial amount of time. Also, you're not going to build anything without plans and architecture done, and the detailed design work won't get underway until the deal and high-level financial arrangements are approved, so add time for that, too (and I'm talking about the work by the architects themselves, before the back and forth with the City and NCC bureaucracies).

[rocketphish]

Roy's take :-)

Senators owner Melnyk gets early nod on plan for LeBreton Flats arena

Roy MacGregor
OTTAWA — The Globe and Mail

Published Thursday, Apr. 28, 2016 4:40PM EDT | Last updated Thursday, Apr. 28, 2016 8:37PM EDT

Eugene Melnyk’s immediate response was much the same as everyone else gathered Thursday afternoon in that stuffy downtown conference room.

“Surprised.”

The National Capital Commission, the office that oversees government properties around Ottawa, had called the gathering to announce the winner of the bid to redevelop a downtown swatch of mud and crabgrass known as LeBreton Flats.

The Ottawa Senators owner had hoped his group might carry the day, but he knew he was up against billionaires who would consider him pocket change, up against promises so wild and extravagant that the competition at times seemed more like an election than a redevelopment plan.

Two years ago, the NCC invited proposals for the 21.6 hectares of barren land just to the west of Parliament Hill. Once bustling with lumber mills, railway spurs and working-class housing, LeBreton Flats sat vacant for decades, its soil contaminated, its future uncertain.

Four groups appeared serious about chasing the opportunity to redevelop the property along the Ottawa River. Then, last fall, two of the groups dropped away, leaving only Melnyk’s group, RendezVous LeBreton, and another entity calling itself Devcore Canderel DLS Group in the running.

The Melnyk proposal was always about moving his NHL team downtown and closer to potential ticket buyers from West Quebec and east of Ottawa, fans who balked at the annoying drive west to attend Senators games in suburban Kanata.

That the anchor for RendezVous LeBreton would be a hockey rink was a given. The unexpected was that the proposal from DCDLS was also centred around an NHL-size arena.

The NCC had sought a legacy proposal that would enhance the lands next door to the Canadian War Museum and within eyesight of the Peace Tower. They got two hockey rinks.

The puzzle was that only the Melnyk group had a hockey team. The other group had money – two key backers being Montreal billionaires André Desmarais and Cirque du Soleil co-founder Guy Laliberté.

Melnyk vowed that he would “never, never” sell his team. Others thought he might have no choice if the other group won the competition, built their rink and drew away the concerts and events that make Melnyk’s distant Canadian Tire Centre viable. It was regarded by some as a sports “hostile takeover” even though the DCDLS group insisted some arrangement beneficial to all might be reached.

Both groups knowing they would have to offer something other than a Tim Hortons to complement the rink proposal began expanding their plans to make them more attractive. Both had considerable residential and retail mix and additional facilities for seniors. One group offered a school. Both offered a new site for the Ottawa Public Library.

The DCDLS group then went a tad loopy. It would include a Ripley’s aquarium, a planetarium, a bandshell. It would have simulated indoor skydiving. It would build an automobile museum.

It seemed a hockey game might prove unplayable. there were so many bells and whistles in the plan.

Melnyk’s group remained rather more sensible and conservative, as a government town likes to see itself. It would put in a multiplex sports centre along with the NHL rink. It would restore a historic aqueduct. It would build a square large enough to hold outdoor events and concerts. And it would bury the coming light-rail transit line that had made the whole idea of redeveloping LeBreton Flats feasible in the first place.

The public response was significant. Many found the car museum a “contradictory message” for an area that was supposed to stress “green” sustainability.

The Desmarais-Laliberté group was also seen as “outsiders” despite having significant involvement of local investment and talent. The Melnyk group, despite the owner’s residence in Barbados, became the local choice.

It was, surely, pure coincidence that the announcement by the NCC board was preceded by a report on the ecosystem of Gatineau Park in which much talk had been about “invasive species.”

In the end, and to the surprise of many who thought the bells, whistles and deep pockets would prove too attractive, the commission went for the simpler plan. It voted to give the Melnyk group permission to enter negotiations, yet making it clear that should these negotiations falter the other group could still have its chance at LeBreton Flats.

But it will be a long time before anyone skates on LeBreton Flats. Difficult negotiations with First Nations will also be required. And negotiations with the federal government. And the cleansing of the soil is far from complete.

Ottawa Mayor Jim Watson was told it would be “three to five years” before a shovel even hits the ground.

Melnyk, however, says his team will play its first game downtown in October of 2021.

Winning the proposal to develop the lands, he said, has “solidified” the often-struggling franchise “for a long, long time.

“Now, more than ever, I feel we’ll bring that Stanley Cup here sooner than you think.”

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/ho...or-lebreton-flats-arena/article29790423/

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by rocketphish

Roy's take :-)

That's the perfect summary. I think I will share that when people from out of town ask.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by coladin

I don't think CTC would get many at all. Why would any promoter choose that arena over the new, downtown arena with LRT? It wouldn't take long for Melnyk to crumble, but I guess that is moot. I think they absolutely would have built the arena. Hockey is only 41 nights out of 365...and with the Cirque du Soleil connections there may have been a major tenant in this new arena that could have been more lucrative.

Anyways, at least something is getting done at Lebreton, wonder if they can tear down the mustard buildings while they are at it?

Also with CTC vs the LeBreton arena, CTC's location and set-up aren't as user-friendly as the suburban open field location might suggest. I think I like my chances of finding free parking and getting in and out of there quickly a lot more at LeBreton.

[OTSkyline]

I'm glad something is getting done (someday) and that SENS will be moving downtown.

What I don't like:
-3 to 5 years before anything starts construction? That's insane! Aren't they starting construction now on ZIBI and that was plagued with aboriginal affairs and issues from the get-go? Not sure why Lebreton would take that much longer.

-Other than the arena, there's nothing for me... I'm a single 25 year old. I won't be using the Sensplex or the Ability Centre, so other than going to concerts or games at the new CTC, guess I won't spend much time at Lebreton... Although almost overwhelming, the other group had a few different attractions that I could've visited. And I thought the other group's public spaces were better. The gathering spaces for events, bluesfest and Canada Day and that urban beach!! Nope, instead we're left with grass and a glorified underpass.

[phil235]

Originally Posted by OTSkyline

-Other than the arena, there's nothing for me... I'm a single 25 year old. I won't be using the Sensplex or the Ability Centre, so other than going to concerts or games at the new CTC, guess I won't spend much time at Lebreton... Although almost overwhelming, the other group had a few different attractions that I could've visited. And I thought the other group's public spaces were better. The gathering spaces for events, bluesfest and Canada Day and that urban beach!! Nope, instead we're left with grass and a glorified underpass.

The RV plan has the plaza with space for 28,000 in front of the arena. I expect that will be used quite often. In particular, I assume that it was designed with Bluesfest in mind.

[Arcologist]

A few random comments:

1) I'm not sure why Melnyk thinks having an arena downtown will suddenly bring home the Stanley Cup sooner than if the team were to stay in Kanata? My assumption is that he hopes revenues will increase, therefore he can spend more money on the team...

2) Seems totally stupid to NOT build the arena overtop of one of the LRT stations. Same with the new library.

3) RendezVous LeBreton is so tame, lacklustre, boring, sleepy... it has Ottawa written all over it, unfortunately.

4) If RV LB would remove some of the condos, and perhaps include a few of the attractions that Devcore was proposing, such as the aquarium and skyzone, then maybe, just maybe, it would become something a little more worthy of such a prominent site.

5) I guess in a few days' time we're back to the NCC Cone of Silence... Shhh

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by Arcologist

A few random comments:

1) I'm not sure why Melnyk thinks having an arena downtown will suddenly bring home the Stanley Cup sooner than if the team were to stay in Kanata? My assumption is that he hopes revenues will increase, therefore he can spend more money on the team...

2) Seems totally stupid to NOT build the arena overtop of one of the LRT stations. Same with the new library.

3) RendezVous LeBreton is so tame, lacklustre, boring, sleepy... it has Ottawa written all over it, unfortunately.

4) If RV LB would remove some of the condos, and perhaps include a few of the attractions that Devcore was proposing, such as the aquarium and skyzone, then maybe, just maybe, it would become something a little more worthy of such a prominent site.

5) I guess in a few days' time we're back to the NCC Cone of Silence... Shhh

On 1), extra revenue would certainly help a lot of the back office stuff (trainers, coaches, medical staff) where Ottawa lags richer teams. It won't help the frequent turnover of coaches or the meddling by the owner or the stupid decisions by GMs.

On 2) I think the advantage of the location is that it a) spreads out the crowd between two stations and b) encourages people to hang around, which would increase the vibrancy of the area.

It's all about personal opinion I guess, but I personally never found many of the devcore attractions particularly exciting. They struck me as the kinds of things kids get dragged to on field trips.

[bartlebooth]

Originally Posted by Arcologist

A few random comments:

1) I'm not sure why Melnyk thinks having an arena downtown will suddenly bring home the Stanley Cup sooner than if the team were to stay in Kanata? My assumption is that he hopes revenues will increase, therefore he can spend more money on the team...

2) Seems totally stupid to NOT build the arena overtop of one of the LRT stations. Same with the new library.

3) RendezVous LeBreton is so tame, lacklustre, boring, sleepy... it has Ottawa written all over it, unfortunately.

4) If RV LB would remove some of the condos, and perhaps include a few of the attractions that Devcore was proposing, such as the aquarium and skyzone, then maybe, just maybe, it would become something a little more worthy of such a prominent site.

5) I guess in a few days' time we're back to the NCC Cone of Silence... Shhh

Funny, I thought the Devcore proposal was quintessentially Ottawa. I fully expected it to win. Painfully lacking in any quality that is urban. A bunch of single use zones separated from each other by a rail line. An area that would be dead most of the time. Very Ottawa. Sure, the attraction list was long (and I doubt those attractions could be sustained long term), but underneath all of that and in terms of urban design, it was fundamentally the same crap you see everywhere in this city.

RV has a good foundation from which a potentially active neighbourhood can grow. Is it perfect, no, but it is miles ahead of what Devcore had proposed in terms of offering a neighbourhood that has the potential to succeed.

The buildings in the concept renderings will change. Some will be better, some will be worse. I was much more concerned about the underlying plan and RV had the better one.

[J.OT13]

This is just awesome. As pointed by others, the NCC's evaluation raised every single point we've discussed, good and bad, for both proposals. Hands down, the right people won out at the end. This will be a true extension of the downtown fabric.

[FFX-ME]

Do you think they will reduce the insane number of condos that will never get built in 50 years and replace them with other attractions?

I feel like the RV plan is what was tried and failed for Lebreton, with the addition of an arena.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by FFX-ME

Do you think they will reduce the insane number of condos that will never get built in 50 years and replace them with other attractions?

I feel like the RV plan is what was tried and failed for Lebreton, with the addition of an arena.

Probably not. Condo apartment towers are where the money's at.

[rocketphish]

NCC won't release Lebreton Flats evaluation scores until cabinet sign-off

Don Butler, Ottawa Citizen
Published on: April 29, 2016 | Last Updated: April 29, 2016 6:13 PM EDT

The National Capital Commission is refusing to release the numerical scores an evaluation committee gave two competing bids for the redevelopment of LeBreton Flats, citing “commercial confidentiality.”

In fact, even the two development teams won’t be told their point totals until after the federal cabinet has signed off on an eventual deal.

The NCC announced Thursday that the five-member committee ranked the bid submitted by Eugene Melnyk’s RendezVous LeBreton group higher than another proposal from the Devcore Canderel DLS Group.

On that basis, the NCC board agreed to begin negotiations with the RendezVous group to develop the long-vacant land. The NCC would only negotiate with DCDLS if it was unable to reach an agreement with RendezVous.

The evaluation committee awarded points based on eight criteria, with a maximum of 140 points at stake. The market rationale was the single most important criteria, worth up to 45 points. The development plan and the delivery model were each worth up to 30 points, with smaller numbers of points awarded for each proposal’s introduction, transportation and servicing plans, decommissioning and sustainability strategies, and risk assessment and mitigation strategies.

But when the Citizen asked the NCC to release those numbers Friday, the agency declined to do so.

“While one proponent clearly ranked highest and thus has won the right to negotiate first,” spokesman Nicholas Galletti said in an email, “it remains an open competitive process which must respect the commercial confidentiality of all participants.”

To ensure the continued fairness of the process, Galletti said, the detailed evaluation scores will only be released after a final agreement is reached and approved by the federal cabinet. Based on the latest NCC timetable, that could be as late as 2018.

In a followup email, Galletti said withholding the evaluation scores “is standard practice for competitive solicitation processes of this nature,” adding that the NCC was following the advice of its fairness monitor, Louise Panneton.

In an interview, Panneton said releasing the scores while the two proponents are still in a competitive process could potentially cause problems.

“Our advice to the NCC from a fairness perspective is: as long as the procurement process is in play, that type of information is information that’s commercially confidential to the proponent,” she said.

While the NCC plans to debrief both teams on their evaluations, that won’t occur until after the cabinet signs off on an eventual agreement, Panneton said.

“They’re really only going to find out their specific scores at that point.”

In large public projects that Panneton has been involved in, the standard has generally been not to release detailed evaluation scores at all.

“In many instances, based on our experience, they don’t even release the scores to the proponents,” she said. “They’ll release the rank, but not the scores.”

Ultimately, she said, whether the scores are made public at the end of the competitive process is a business decision.

The evaluation committee included architect Jack Diamond, planner Mark Conway, NCC chief executive Mark Kristmanson and two other NCC executives. It thoroughly evaluated both bids over two months before reaching agreement on the scores.

[email protected]
twitter.com/ButlerDon

http://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-news...evaluation-scores-until-cabinet-sign-off

[rocketphish]

Arena, high-rises focus of public concern about Melnyk LeBreton plan

Don Butler, Ottawa Citizen
Published on: April 29, 2016 | Last Updated: April 29, 2016 7:55 PM EDT

The main public objections to the highest-rated LeBreton Flats proposal were that it focuses too much on an arena, includes too many high-rises and condos, and lacks amenities that area residents will require.

The comments about the RendezVous LeBreton proposal are contained in a detailed report on the results of an online “consultation survey” conducted by the National Capital Commission between Jan. 26 and Feb. 8.

The NCC board voted Thursday to begin negotiations with the RendezVous group after it was awarded more points by an evaluation committee than a competing bid from the Devcore Canderel DLS Group.

Both bids remain in the running, however, and if negotiations with RendezVous go south, switching to the DCDLS proposal remains a live possibility.

Nearly 8,000 people completed the online survey, which asked participants to identify things they liked or disliked about the two redevelopment plans.

In the RendezVous plan, the “major event centre” was seen as both a positive and a negative by the public. Those who liked it thought relocating the Senators downtown would create an “entertainment hub” that would anchor the whole site and make the city core more vibrant. They also liked the arena’s proposed green roof.

Others thought the plan focused too much on the arena, saying LeBreton Flats needs an attraction that will appeal to a broader cross-section of the public than hockey fans.

Many liked the plan’s green space and public areas, particularly the restored aqueduct and riverfront area. Yet one of the main criticisms of the proposal was that it didn’t offer enough public space.

Another major complaint was that there were too many highrises and condos on the LeBreton site; one participant described it as “condo, highrise hell.”

Several respondents said the RendezVous proposal was lacking important amenities, such as a grocery store, schools and professional services.

But there was enthusiasm for the proposed Abilities Centre for disabled and able-bodied residents, the plan’s commitment to significant affordable housing and the idea of covering the LRT line that will bisect the site.

In the DCDLS bid, the proposed automotive museum was among the least popular features. Respondents said it had little relevance to Ottawa’s history or culture and didn’t align well with the overall image of an area focused on the environment.

Many also said they didn’t understand why DCDLS had included an NHL arena in its proposal, given that it had no team. There was concern that the proposal lacked affordable housing and some questioned the idea of having a French-language elementary school on the site.

But there was also a long list of things in the DCDLS plan the public liked, including a proposed urban beach, a grocery store, a YMCA, a library and a Ripley’s aquarium.

Respondents thought the proposed Canadensis Walk, a kind of linear park that would be the central spine of the project, was aesthetically pleasing, though some disliked the name.

As with the RendezVous plan, the public had a split opinion of the proposed green space, with many praising its extent and ambience, but others saying there wasn’t enough and a few complaining there was too much.

[email protected]
twitter.com/ButlerDon


Comments about the RendezVous LeBreton plan:

• “I believe the relocation (of the Senators) from Kanata to LeBreton will liven up the downtown core, giving Ottawa the downtown ‘vibe’ the city has been lacking.”

• “The entire project seems devoid of public life outside of a hockey game … There is a lack of personality.”

• “This bid simply looks horrifying, the renderings look like the (worst) parts of Toronto.”


On the Devcore Canderel DLS plan:

• “Will turn Ottawa into a vibrant capital city, and a major international tourist destination. i.e. No longer ‘Ottawa, the city that fun forgot.'”

• “All the public facilities are bunched together in a row. I can foresee a lot of dead, cold space with nobody around most of the time.”

• “It seems to be a place to spend money, not a place to live. Doesn’t seem feasible to me unless everything is commercialized and private, or designed as a facade for advertisement. Ridiculous, to be blunt.”

http://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-news...ublic-concern-about-melnyk-lebreton-plan

[silvergate]

Originally Posted by OTSkyline

I'm glad something is getting done (someday) and that SENS will be moving downtown.

What I don't like:
-3 to 5 years before anything starts construction? That's insane! Aren't they starting construction now on ZIBI and that was plagued with aboriginal affairs and issues from the get-go? Not sure why Lebreton would take that much longer.

-Other than the arena, there's nothing for me... I'm a single 25 year old. I won't be using the Sensplex or the Ability Centre, so other than going to concerts or games at the new CTC, guess I won't spend much time at Lebreton... Although almost overwhelming, the other group had a few different attractions that I could've visited. And I thought the other group's public spaces were better. The gathering spaces for events, bluesfest and Canada Day and that urban beach!! Nope, instead we're left with grass and a glorified underpass.

Yeah but as a young person I'd rather see a cool area develop than an urban dead zone. Devcore gave us zero potential down the line. Once you've seen the attractions that's it, you never want to go back. At least rendez-vous plans for an actual community that spreads across the whole area...

[phil235]

Good to see generic expert for hire Ian Lee is strongly in favour of putting city money towards clean-up for the Lebreton development, apparently because it is "a disgrace". Funny how he was vehemently opposed to Lansdowne, which was quite the jewel before redevelopment. Couldn't be because Lansdowne was a block from his house.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/ottawa-lebreton-taxpayers-brownfield-cleanup-1.3559582

[passwordisnt123]

Originally Posted by FFX-ME

Do you think they will reduce the insane number of condos that will never get built in 50 years and replace them with other attractions?

I feel like the RV plan is what was tried and failed for Lebreton, with the addition of an arena.

What's an "insane" number of condos? Ever wonder why people like hanging out in Toronto or downtown Vancouver or Montreal? It's mainly because there's lots of amenities and restaurants and shops around. Ever wonder how they stay open and do business? Because there's a lot of people who live nearby in buildings that house many people.

I don't get how somebody can frequent the Skyscraperpage forum and not get that condos are the things that make these places work. Without condos and people living nearby, what you end up with is Downtown Ottawa north of Laurier street after 6 pm on a weeknight: Dead, desolate, sad.

[YOWflier]

Originally Posted by passwordisnt123

what you end up with is Downtown Ottawa north of Laurier street after 6 pm on a weeknight: Dead, desolate, sad.

I don't wish to interfere with your loathing, but I'd be remiss if I didn't point out that the same is true of every CBD (i.e. the area you describe) everywhere.

Take a walk through the CBD of Montreal, Toronto, heck, even bloody mid/downtown Manhattan after business hours and you could fire off a shotgun without hitting anyone.

As Uhu correctly pointed out at some point in the past, there are areas of "downtown" that aren't dead after business hours. Try going there.