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  #221  
Old Posted Apr 28, 2016, 11:09 PM
Mrs Sauga Mrs Sauga is offline
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Shanghai may be a try hard city with over the top towers but the universal feedback ive heard from people whove actually visited and explored it is that its infrastructure makes New York look downtown 3rd world in comparison. Ironic, i know, but give credit where its due. Shanghai has a unique and impressive skyline.
Rousseau already stated Shanghai's skyline is impressive and unique. His argument is that its not iconic or beautiful. I think most would agree it's not really beautiful but I do think its iconic looking, especially in that pic he posted.
     
     
  #222  
Old Posted Apr 29, 2016, 12:06 AM
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  #223  
Old Posted Apr 29, 2016, 12:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Mrs Sauga View Post
Rousseau already stated Shanghai's skyline is impressive and unique. His argument is that its not iconic or beautiful. I think most would agree it's not really beautiful but I do think its iconic looking, especially in that pic he posted.
What skyline is all that beautiful? How is Toronto's skyline more "beautiful" than Shanghai's? They're both a giant collection of concrete and glass. Quite expressionless.

If you have a mountain range looming over your city, then maybe you have a "beautiful" skyline.
     
     
  #224  
Old Posted Apr 29, 2016, 12:49 AM
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What skyline is all that beautiful? How is Toronto's skyline more "beautiful" than Shanghai's? They're both a giant collection of concrete and glass. Quite expressionless.
Some skylines might be "collections" of brick and/or stone and/or copper roofs and/or church steeples, etc.

For example, you can't possibly say the Edinburgh skyline is just a bunch of concrete and glass.

     
     
  #225  
Old Posted Apr 29, 2016, 12:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Mrs Sauga View Post
Rousseau already stated Shanghai's skyline is impressive and unique. His argument is that its not iconic or beautiful. I think most would agree it's not really beautiful but I do think its iconic looking, especially in that pic he posted.
Iconic always carries a positive undertone, right? Something instantly recognizable but also nearly universally hated, can that be iconic too? (Not saying Shanghai's skyline is hated, just trying to refine my own definition of the word.)

It's impressive. By most metrics, it certainly belongs in a top ten.

It's not beautiful IMO (most of the tallest buildings are displays of horribly bad architectural taste and most of the rest is pretty nondescript) but the sheer mass of it all definitely earns it a slot among the world's biggest skylines.
     
     
  #226  
Old Posted Apr 29, 2016, 1:06 AM
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Some skylines might be "collections" of brick and/or stone and/or copper roofs and/or church steeples, etc.

For example, you can't possibly say the Edinburgh skyline is just a bunch of concrete and glass.
I was speaking on the subject of worlds best skylines, where glass and concrete towers dominate.

Debating which is the best skyline is like debating which shade of grey is the best.
     
     
  #227  
Old Posted Apr 29, 2016, 1:20 AM
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I was speaking on the subject of worlds best skylines, where glass and concrete towers dominate.

Debating which is the best skyline is like debating which shade of grey is the best.
More or less agree.

NYC for example has a big number of pre-WWII skyscrapers... (part of the reason it's IMO the best skyline in the world compared to a skyline that would have the same mass, but consisting nearly only of modern nondescript cookie-cutter condo towers.)








     
     
  #228  
Old Posted Apr 29, 2016, 1:41 AM
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Originally Posted by lio45 View Post
It's not beautiful IMO (most of the tallest buildings are displays of horribly bad architectural taste and most of the rest is pretty nondescript) but the sheer mass of it all definitely earns it a slot among the world's biggest skylines.
You don't like the Jin Mao Tower or SWFC? I personally think they're beautiful. The Shanghai Tower, while very impressive in scope and design, isn't as nice the the two former tallest towers, but it's still unbelievably cool to look at in person.

I've come to really appreciate the different eras that each building represents; Jin Mao - the past, SWFC - the present, Shanghai Tower - the future. I think compliment each other well, but I definitely have my own biases. When I first moved here, only Jin Mao towered over Lujiazui, so there is an emotional connection to these buildings as I've been able to watch them rise over the years.


Some of my favourite views of the Lujiazui skyline with all three buildings prominently displayed.


newy by Andrew Rochfort, on Flickr



stretched out by Andrew Rochfort, on Flickr



bund view 2 by Andrew Rochfort, on Flickr



danny doc 5 by Andrew Rochfort, on Flickr



back to back by Andrew Rochfort, on Flickr



halfway by Andrew Rochfort, on Flickr
     
     
  #229  
Old Posted Apr 29, 2016, 1:50 AM
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I wonder if we'll ever bring warmth back to large urban architecture again. We don't necessarily have to face our buildings with stone or carve angels into their facades, but we've lost something after the Second World war that we can't seem to get back.

We are lucky that the Americans were able to translate classical architecture into skyscraper designs from 1900-1940.
     
     
  #230  
Old Posted Apr 29, 2016, 2:51 AM
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Question: Where are the bridges connecting both sides of the river?
Most of Shanghai's river crossings are tunnels due to the necessary clearance required for bridges (~45m) to allow for the passage of ocean-going ships. There are a total of 8 (I think) bridges that cross the Huangpu River, but many more tunnels than that.
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  #231  
Old Posted Apr 29, 2016, 3:03 AM
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The above pictures make me want to visit both Shanghai and Edinburg.

I almost feel that I should give New York a second chance after the above photos too. I've just never seen such a filthy city in a rich country.
     
     
  #232  
Old Posted Apr 29, 2016, 3:05 AM
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You don't like the Jin Mao Tower or SWFC? I personally think they're beautiful. The Shanghai Tower, while very impressive in scope and design, isn't as nice the the two former tallest towers, but it's still unbelievably cool to look at in person.
I find Jin Mao and SWFC very nice, but the Oriental Pearl is a big, honking blight on the landscape.
     
     
  #233  
Old Posted Apr 29, 2016, 5:20 AM
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Originally Posted by lio45 View Post
It's not beautiful IMO (most of the tallest buildings are displays of horribly bad architectural taste and most of the rest is pretty nondescript) but the sheer mass of it all definitely earns it a slot among the world's biggest skylines.
At least it's nicer than New York City. All those buildings in unpleasant brown brick drowning the city in balcony-less apartment blocks. And all those wannabe landmark commercial towers scattered around all fighting for attention so the eye has no pleasant spot to rest. At least most of Shanghai's big attention grabbers are in one clump.
     
     
  #234  
Old Posted Apr 29, 2016, 6:52 AM
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I find Jin Mao and SWFC very nice, but the Oriental Pearl is a big, honking blight on the landscape.
It's honestly no worse in person than the CN Tower is, plus it's extremely unique. It's also very popular here - you should see the number of people taking pictures of it every day, and it's always used in advertising material as it's a real symbol for Shanghai.
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  #235  
Old Posted Apr 29, 2016, 8:12 AM
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I'll just chime in my (hopefully) last words on the Shanghai debate. I think if we're going to compare Shanghai to New York, New York clearly has the better skyline, but it's also more matured and developed. Think of the buzz in Manhattan in the '20s and '30s with the Chrysler and Empire State Building going up, among others. It's skyline wasn't as built out as it is today, but it was still impressive and the start of something more impressive. It was the future.

Now the American century is over and you see a similar buzz to Shanghai that New York had 80 years ago and it too looks like the future, and it's impressive in its own way. I think some on here have a heavy Western bias, particularly toward pre-war architecture. Even I have that to some degree, but that doesn't mean that you can't look unbiased at things and notice that there are other ways of doing things that can be seen as impressive, beautiful, mighty, or iconic in its own way, and that's how I view Shanghai. It'll never literally be like New York or Chicago or other classic American cities, but it'll be it's own thing and I don't think that's any less impressive than the classics.

I love the Toronto skyline, but I think putting it ahead of Shanghai in rank is a little bit ridiculous. Sydney's pretty and has a more balanced skyline, but take away the Opera House and it's kinda unimpressive. Someone might have said that already, though. Melbourne has some funky skyscrapers that are fairly cutting edge my Western standards, but for whatever reason when I try to picture the Melbourne skyline, I draw a blank. I think as the building boom there continues to fill things in, it'll start to have a more "iconic" skyline. But right now I'd almost say Auckland's skyline is more recognizable.

I would say that pound-for-pound, Americans still build the best quality skylines, but the Chinese are quickly catching up with growing skylines in Shanghai, Guangzhou, Hong Kong, etc.
     
     
  #236  
Old Posted Apr 29, 2016, 3:11 PM
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Whether it's attractive or not is one thing (I'd say architecturally not so much, a few exceptions aside - but the sheer mass of towers, the height, the lights combine to make it into something beautifully gargantuan & chaotic), but I don't see how one could say that Shanghai's skyline isn't one of the most instantly recognizable in the world. If nothing else the Oriental Pearl Tower is an obvious icon of the city in much the same way as the CN Tower, Berlin Tower, or Space Needle are for their's.



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Originally Posted by hipster duck View Post
I wonder if we'll ever bring warmth back to large urban architecture again. We don't necessarily have to face our buildings with stone or carve angels into their facades, but we've lost something after the Second World war that we can't seem to get back.

We are lucky that the Americans were able to translate classical architecture into skyscraper designs from 1900-1940.

There's no reason to think that the style of stripped-down, functional modernism that has ruled the past half-century+ of architecture will continue on unabated forever. That has never been the case with any earlier style. Sooner of later we'll see a popular reaction against it, and armed with computer aided design and new technologies (3D printing and the like), I expect we'll see more and more of this: 




Though I don't know if you'd call that "warm" per se - it's still of today's impersonal, supersized scale, most importantly. The warmth that is derived from streetscapes of narrow, human-scaled structures hand-built of earthen materials on the other hand just won't work with modern economic conditions and technology, and individual infill projects aside, is never likely to be repeated again on a mass scale. 
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  #237  
Old Posted Apr 29, 2016, 4:41 PM
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Astronaut Tim Kopra just tweeted a photo of Vancouver from International Space Station.



     
     
  #238  
Old Posted Apr 29, 2016, 4:53 PM
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Originally Posted by MonkeyRonin View Post
Whether it's attractive or not is one thing (I'd say architecturally not so much, a few exceptions aside - but the sheer mass of towers, the height, the lights combine to make it into something beautifully gargantuan & chaotic), but I don't see how one could say that Shanghai's skyline isn't one of the most instantly recognizable in the world. If nothing else the Oriental Pearl Tower is an obvious icon of the city in much the same way as the CN Tower, Berlin Tower, or Space Needle are for their's.






There's no reason to think that the style of stripped-down, functional modernism that has ruled the past half-century+ of architecture will continue on unabated forever. That has never been the case with any earlier style. Sooner of later we'll see a popular reaction against it, and armed with computer aided design and new technologies (3D printing and the like), I expect we'll see more and more of this: 




Though I don't know if you'd call that "warm" per se - it's still of today's impersonal, supersized scale, most importantly. The warmth that is derived from streetscapes of narrow, human-scaled structures hand-built of earthen materials on the other hand just won't work with modern economic conditions and technology, and individual infill projects aside, is never likely to be repeated again on a mass scale. 
WTF is that?!?
     
     
  #239  
Old Posted Apr 29, 2016, 6:15 PM
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WTF is that?!?

Conceptual supertall proposal by Mark Foster Gage. http://www.dezeen.com/2015/12/14/mark-fo...ed-skyscraper-new-york-west-57th-street/
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  #240  
Old Posted Apr 29, 2016, 6:20 PM
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I like gargoyles but this is awful.
     
     
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