Stadiums and Arenas of Canada part 2

[Acajack]

Sens are going downtown baby!

[blueandgoldguy]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

I would definitely take the Saddledome over the Corel Centre if it was that close to downtown (we'll find out in two hours if the Corel Centre's location will be an issue for much longer). And I like the retro look and feel of McMahon. I'm fine with what we have now though.

What are the top 10 reasons why everyone is so keen on trading up these venues though?

Revenues * 10.

The Saddledome has by far the smallest lower bowl in the NHL. 6000 seats in total I believe. A typical modern NHL arena has 9000+ in the lower bowl. Here alone the Flames are losing out on a substantial amount of game revenue.

They also have most of their suites shoehorned into the lower bowl. Suite holders share concourse space and washroom facilities with the regular patrons so it lacks that exclusive feel that the corporate client desired. I suspect the Flames are not maximizing their revenues here because of this. Since Calgary has a large corporate base, I'm sure Flames owners want 100+ suites - at least 30 more than the current arena.

Add in another 1000 or so club seats (not sure what the current arena has....1500?); 500 - 1000 loge seats; increase the number of concessions and points of sale by 50 - 100%, increase advertising in the arena by 50 - 100% with greater opportunities (tvs in concourse, larger scoreboard, naming rights to concourses, more electronic ribbons) and I would guess a new arena could increase revenues by $20 - $30 million annually.

[blueandgoldguy]

Originally Posted by king10

Never said they would charge NHL prices. Just said they can charge higher prices than what they are charging now and still sell out. Simple supply and demand. Most of the merchandise is purchased outside of gameday anyways. Theres 9 games a year, sports apparel stores are open and selling their merchandise over 300 days a year.

Out of the new Reno's / new builds in the CFL only one team has increased capacity. It's the trend for a reason. Let demand outstrip supply. The bottom line will reflect that.

Capacity Reduction
Ivor Wynne (29,000) > THF (24,000)
Molson (25,000) >(23,500)
TD Place (30,000)> (24,000)
Rogers/ BMO (50,000) > (27,000)
Commonwealth (60,000) > (56,000)
BC Place (60,000) >(54,500)

Capacity Unchanged
Mosaic (33,000) > Mosaic 2.0 (33,000)

Capacity Increase
Canad Inns (30,000) > IGF (33,500)

Capacity reduction is hardly out of the ordinary.

I could eventually see the Bombers removing 2-3 sections in the north endzone of the stadium (eliminating 1000 or so seats) and constructing a tiered patio/bar area similar to the recent phenomena occurring in new CFL stadiums. Maybe a smaller version of what is being constructed in Regina.

Reduce capacity by 500 - 1000 and replace what are generally the poorest selling seats at IGF with a more desirable option.

There are two sections in the endzone currently designated as the student section. I could see the Bomber organization maintaining that with the traditional seating in those sections and then converting a few sections immediately next to that into a patio/bar area essentially extending the rowdy/student area into 4-5 sections.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by blueandgoldguy

Revenues * 10.

The Saddledome has by far the smallest lower bowl in the NHL. 6000 seats in total I believe. A typical modern NHL arena has 9000+ in the lower bowl. Here alone the Flames are losing out on a substantial amount of game revenue.

The irony of course is that the Flames shrank their lower bowl dramatically in the mid 90s in order to build skyboxes close to the ice. I'm guessing they probably didn't even pay for that "improvement" which is now being cited as a reason for building a new arena.

Here's how it looked as built:



Source: albertaonrecord.ca

Originally Posted by blueandgoldguy

I could eventually see the Bombers removing 2-3 sections in the north endzone of the stadium (eliminating 1000 or so seats) and constructing a tiered patio/bar area similar to the recent phenomena occurring in new CFL stadiums. Maybe a smaller version of what is being constructed in Regina.

Reduce capacity by 500 - 1000 and replace what are generally the poorest selling seats at IGF with a more desirable option.

There are two sections in the endzone currently designated as the student section. I could see the Bomber organization maintaining that the traditional seating in those sections and then converting a few sections immediately next to that into a patio/bar area essentially extending the rowdy/student area into 4-5 sections.

I doubt the Bombers will remove seating to make way for more clubs/patios as they've already installed a lot of premium seats, some of which goes visibly empty at games. I'm not sure that there's much more of a market for $100-$200 a game club seating sections.

If the Bombers actually had a decent winning season or two I'm sure those seats in the end zones would get snapped up.

[Horus]

Not a Canadian arena - but today it was announced that the new Arena in Detroit will be called the Little Caesars Arena. The Red Wings are expected to open it up for the 2017-18 season.


This does have implications for Canadian arenas however.

When the current arena in Detroit is demolished, this will give Quebec City the chance to rename the Centre Videotron to what it should rightfully have been called in the first place:

The Jos Louis Arena!

[HomeInMyShoes]

^Lol.

[esquire]

^ Oh that would be just glorious

[blueandgoldguy]

Originally Posted by esquire

The irony of course is that the Flames shrank their lower bowl dramatically in the mid 90s in order to build skyboxes close to the ice. I'm guessing they probably didn't even pay for that "improvement" which is now being cited as a reason for building a new arena.

Here's how it looked as built:



Source: albertaonrecord.ca




I doubt the Bombers will remove seating to make way for more clubs/patios as they've already installed a lot of premium seats, some of which goes visibly empty at games. I'm not sure that there's much more of a market for $100-$200 a game club seating sections.

If the Bombers actually had a decent winning season or two I'm sure those seats in the end zones would get snapped up.

For what it's worth the Bombers have sold out all of their club seats, loges and suites since the stadium opened in 2013. In fact, they added several loges in the second season around the lower bowl due to the demand for those types of seats. There still may be some excess demand there for those types of seating options.

With that being said I am not necessarily advocating for additional high end loge seating or club seating at Bomber games. Something like Hamilton's Coors Light Patio (rail seating at $566 for 10 games, general admission at $266 for 10 games) may be the way to go.

Trends seem to indicate that younger generations enjoy the social aspect of live sporting events more so than older generations and the recent construction of plazas, lounges and patios built right into arenas and stadiums reflects this interests. We are seeing it in the CFL with the construction of Mosaic 2, Tim Hortons Field and current renovation at TD Place. It's been happening in baseball for awhile as these enormous plazas in the outfield allow teams to sell thousands of additional ticket to high demand games for the pleasure of standing for 3+ hours while socializing with other fans. Rogers Centre followed suit a few seasons ago converting the centrefield restaurant, Windows into a tiered patio for Blue Jays games.

I also see this trend happening in other sports arenas as well - Sacramento's new basketball arena has an open end overlooking downtown which may serve as a gathering spot during the game; the renovations occurring at Dolphin Stadium in Miami has resulted in several patios throughout the stadium reflecting changing tastes.

OUtside the occasional game, I think the Bomber will continue to struggle selling seats in the north endzone and they will eventually adopt a model that will see a slightly reduced capacity at IGF while simultaneously turning the least desirable seating sections into one of the more appealing areas for the viewing public.

[esquire]

^ True enough, there is a trend in the industry to more of that sort of thing. I just noticed empty premium seating areas at Bomber games last year and received e-mails hyping premium seating on a per-game basis so I assumed they had some excess supply.

[king10]

Originally Posted by blueandgoldguy

for what it's worth the bombers have sold out all of their club seats, loges and suites since the stadium opened in 2013. In fact, they added several loges in the second season around the lower bowl due to the demand for those types of seats. There still may be some excess demand there for those types of seating options.

With that being said i am not necessarily advocating for additional high end loge seating or club seating at bomber games. Something like hamilton's coors light patio (rail seating at $566 for 10 games, general admission at $266 for 10 games) may be the way to go.

Trends seem to indicate that younger generations enjoy the social aspect of live sporting events more so than older generations and the recent construction of plazas, lounges and patios built right into arenas and stadiums reflects this interests. We are seeing it in the cfl with the construction of mosaic 2, tim hortons field and current renovation at td place. It's been happening in baseball for awhile as these enormous plazas in the outfield allow teams to sell thousands of additional ticket to high demand games for the pleasure of standing for 3+ hours while socializing with other fans. Rogers centre followed suit a few seasons ago converting the centrefield restaurant, windows into a tiered patio for blue jays games.

I also see this trend happening in other sports arenas as well - sacramento's new basketball arena has an open end overlooking downtown which may serve as a gathering spot during the game; the renovations occurring at dolphin stadium in miami has resulted in several patios throughout the stadium reflecting changing tastes.

Outside the occasional game, i think the bomber will continue to struggle selling seats in the north endzone and they will eventually adopt a model that will see a slightly reduced capacity at igf while simultaneously turning the least desirable seating sections into one of the more appealing areas for the viewing public.

qft

[FutureSmith]

Canadian Press
Published Thursday, April 28, 2016 6:10PM EDT

Ottawa Senators owner Eugene Melnyk has moved one step closer to developing a large patch of land in the national capital, not far from Parliament Hill, into a commercial centre that would include a new NHL arena.

The National Capital Commission has accepted a recommendation to negotiate with Melnyk's RendezVous LeBreton proposal, instead of a bid by rival Devcore Canderel DLS Group to develop the 21.6 hectare site in Ottawa's core.

Both proposals included a new arena, library and significant residential, commercial and retail space.

But Devcor's plan also proposed a number of attractions including an aquarium, a planetarium and museums.

RendezVous LeBreton was centred on the arena to bring the Senators to the downtown, away from their current location in the west Ottawa suburb of Kanata, along with a heritage aqueduct and a number of parks and open spaces.

Once the NCC board votes to accept the highest-ranked proposal, negotiations could begin to secure a development agreement, which requires approval from the federal cabinet.

http://www.ctvnews.ca/sports/senators-ow...y-nod-on-new-arena-development-1.2879605

[eemy]

A rendering of the proposed arena that is part of the Rendezvous proposal; the graphic part would change depending on the event taking place at the arena:



from the Ottawa Citizen

[Corndogger]

Originally Posted by esquire

^ Even CanadInns is sort of a lateral move as for years it held 33,675 except for the last 15 years or so when seat replacement drove capacity down to 29,500.

I do think corndogger has a point though, I think there is some merit to charging an affordable price point and filling the joint vs. attempting to charge a premium ticket price. I get that maximizing revenue (and by extension profits) is the name of the game for teams, but encouraging people to come out and become a fan has to factor in there somewhere. Plus there is the fact that a full house does wonders for atmosphere and perception.

I guess I'm old school in that attending live games is a big part of the deal for me. I'd rather watch from even the nosebleeds in person than on TV. Making tickets harder or more expensive to come by just drives down my interest.

Not only does it drive down interest it drives down support for building the facility in the first place. If people think they'll never be able to afford to go to a game they won't care if the team gets a new stadium or not. That attitude will be even worse than what it is for building a new arena.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Horus

Not a Canadian arena - but today it was announced that the new Arena in Detroit will be called the Little Caesars Arena. The Red Wings are expected to open it up for the 2017-18 season.


This does have implications for Canadian arenas however.

When the current arena in Detroit is demolished, this will give Quebec City the chance to rename the Centre Videotron to what it should rightfully have been called in the first place:

The Jos Louis Arena!

If Vachon wants to become a sponsor, Bob's your uncle!

[Corndogger]

Originally Posted by FutureSmith

Canadian Press
Published Thursday, April 28, 2016 6:10PM EDT

Ottawa Senators owner Eugene Melnyk has moved one step closer to developing a large patch of land in the national capital, not far from Parliament Hill, into a commercial centre that would include a new NHL arena.

The National Capital Commission has accepted a recommendation to negotiate with Melnyk's RendezVous LeBreton proposal, instead of a bid by rival Devcore Canderel DLS Group to develop the 21.6 hectare site in Ottawa's core.

Both proposals included a new arena, library and significant residential, commercial and retail space.

But Devcor's plan also proposed a number of attractions including an aquarium, a planetarium and museums.

RendezVous LeBreton was centred on the arena to bring the Senators to the downtown, away from their current location in the west Ottawa suburb of Kanata, along with a heritage aqueduct and a number of parks and open spaces.

Once the NCC board votes to accept the highest-ranked proposal, negotiations could begin to secure a development agreement, which requires approval from the federal cabinet.

http://www.ctvnews.ca/sports/senators-ow...y-nod-on-new-arena-development-1.2879605

What was "wrong" with the other proposal? On paper it sounds way better if they want to turn the other area into a true entertainment/tourist district. Aquarium, etc. would ensure people coming to the area 365 days per year. I heard on the radio this afternoon that they plan on having this done by 2019. Sounds fast or did I mishear?

[FrankieFlowerpot]

BMO Update - the finishing touches are being done ahead of the TFC home opener next Saturday night

http://urbantoronto.ca/forum/threads/tor...s-mlse-gensler.8777/page-63#post-1110835

You can see the Fieldturf endzone in the north end.

[Horus]

Originally Posted by Corndogger

What was "wrong" with the other proposal? On paper it sounds way better if they want to turn the other area into a true entertainment/tourist district. Aquarium, etc. would ensure people coming to the area 365 days per year. I heard on the radio this afternoon that they plan on having this done by 2019. Sounds fast or did I mishear?

This article posted by rocketphish in the Ottawa forum should sum it up.
http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showpost.php?p=7425023&postcount=1427

[McC]

Originally Posted by Corndogger

I heard on the radio this afternoon that they plan on having this done by 2019. Sounds fast or did I mishear?

That's more like when they're aiming to have all of the negotiations, approvals, financing lined up so shovels can get in the ground. The Senators' folks have talked about an opening faceoff downtown in 2021, but I think that could easily slip by a year or two. The negotiations will be complicated, the site cleanup extensive, and dealing with the NCC on design issues can be a prickly and lengthy affair (though they've been slowly getting better on that front).

[Marshsparrow]

Originally Posted by McC

That's more like when they're aiming to have all of the negotiations, approvals, financing lined up so shovels can get in the ground. The Senators' folks have talked about an opening faceoff downtown in 2021, but I think that could easily slip by a year or two. The negotiations will be complicated, the site cleanup extensive, and dealing with the NCC on design issues can be a prickly and lengthy affair (though they've been slowly getting better on that front).

This won't happen anytime fast...

[king10]

Originally Posted by FrankieFlowerpot

BMO Update - the finishing touches are being done ahead of the TFC home opener next Saturday night

http://urbantoronto.ca/forum/threads/tor...s-mlse-gensler.8777/page-63#post-1110835

You can see the Fieldturf endzone in the north end.

looks like they matched the colour pretty similar to the grass, which is a good thing