Canada's 'housing bubble' deemed close to bursting

[Xelebes]

Originally Posted by lio45

I recall an English village for sale years ago (my gf at the time was the one who had sent me the link, I was starting in real estate then), something like 30 houses and a few commerces for a few million pounds, the cap rate was actually decent. Landlord is for once truly worthy of the literal name in that case -- I've always found it amusingly pompous in English, in French it's just "owner" -- as you own all the land and all the improvements. The entire population of the place rents from you.

Lord is an ancient word in English. It means "loaf-ward", a kenning on the concept of "custodian." Lord did become a rank, but only by the time the powers of England were sorting themselves out.

[csbvan]

Interesting juxtaposition between Canada and Australia:

https://pricetags.wordpress.com/2016/04/27/daily-scot-juxtaposition/

[ssiguy]

Australia is clamping down because they acknowledge that housing prices are killing the Australian dream of owning a home which was once considered an Australian birthright.

Australia's situation is more akin to Toronto's where you have high prices but this is particularly true in the 3 cities you would expect it. Sydney is a major financial centre with high wages, Melbourne is the nation's banking capitol and home to Australia's academic and media elite and Australia's largest manufacturing sector and both are corporate head office centres. Perth which has been riding the high commodity and very high wage wave.

In other words there are valid reasons, besides Chinese money laundering, why housing prices are so high and thus why curtailing foreign ownership will have less of an impact. This is akin to Toronto {Mel & Sydney} and Perth {Calgary} which has seen prices and sales fall significantly due to plunging commodity prices.

Sydney and Melbourne are basically like Toronto...............over priced but backed and cushioned by a diversified economy based on corporate headquarters, Canada's solitary financial centre, media and academic centre, and a large manufacturing base.

Vancouver is the outlier in the story. The city has almost no manufacturing, absolutely no head offices, and has only regional financial centres. Toronto is finance and head offices, Montreal is pharmaceuticals, aerospace, and head offices, Calgary is oil, Ottawa is government, and Vancouver is real estate.

In other words, just as Toronto and Montreal will do everything to protect manufacturing, Vancouver will do everything to maintain it's real estate industry. It is the very backbone of the economy now and the province knows it. They say they will now "study" the issue of foreign ownership which is a farce because there will be no action taken.

Affordability and restrictions on foreign ownership will never take place in Vancouver it is the city's dominant industry which is why the province is completely indifferent to the housing crisis, young people leaving, and a skilled labour force not willing to stay............all those things must take a back seat to keep the economy moving on it's only economic backbone...........real estate.

[Bcasey25raptor]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

Australia is clamping down because they acknowledge that housing prices are killing the Australian dream of owning a home which was once considered an Australian birthright.

Australia's situation is more akin to Toronto's where you have high prices but this is particularly true in the 3 cities you would expect it. Sydney is a major financial centre with high wages, Melbourne is the nation's banking capitol and home to Australia's academic and media elite and Australia's largest manufacturing sector and both are corporate head office centres. Perth which has been riding the high commodity and very high wage wave.

In other words there are valid reasons, besides Chinese money laundering, why housing prices are so high and thus why curtailing foreign ownership will have less of an impact. This is akin to Toronto {Mel & Sydney} and Perth {Calgary} which has seen prices and sales fall significantly due to plunging commodity prices.

Sydney and Melbourne are basically like Toronto...............over priced but backed and cushioned by a diversified economy based on corporate headquarters, Canada's solitary financial centre, media and academic centre, and a large manufacturing base.

Vancouver is the outlier in the story. The city has almost no manufacturing, absolutely no head offices, and has only regional financial centres. Toronto is finance and head offices, Montreal is pharmaceuticals, aerospace, and head offices, Calgary is oil, Ottawa is government, and Vancouver is real estate.

In other words, just as Toronto and Montreal will do everything to protect manufacturing, Vancouver will do everything to maintain it's real estate industry. It is the very backbone of the economy now and the province knows it. They say they will now "study" the issue of foreign ownership which is a farce because there will be no action taken.

Affordability and restrictions on foreign ownership will never take place in Vancouver it is the city's dominant industry which is why the province is completely indifferent to the housing crisis, young people leaving, and a skilled labour force not willing to stay............all those things must take a back seat to keep the economy moving on it's only economic backbone...........real estate.

Do you get a sick kick out of lying and distorting reality?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Companies_based_in_Vancouver

https://www.biv.com/article/2014/10/vancouver-leads-nation-head-office-growth/

We have more head offices than Montreal so get off you high horse.

[csbvan]

Some people's facts come from their own hyperbolic thought process. Conjecture=facts, right?

[rousseau]

Originally Posted by Bcasey25raptor

Do you get a sick kick out of lying and distorting reality?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Companies_based_in_Vancouver

I couldn't find a single manufacturer on that Wikipedia page. There surely must be some, as I didn't click on every single link. I did see a of couple forestry and mining companies.

Why would you post a link to a list of companies not in the manufacturing sector in response to a statement that there is almost no manufacturing in Vancouver?

[csbvan]

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/real-esta...ket-becoming-too-frothy/article29770023/

CMHC has now added Vancouver to the list of problematic housing markets, joining Toronto, Calgary, Regina and Saskatoon which were already deemed as being problematic.

[vanatox]

Originally Posted by Bcasey25raptor

Do you get a sick kick out of lying and distorting reality?

https://www.biv.com/article/2014/10/vancouver-leads-nation-head-office-growth/

We have more head offices than Montreal so get off you high horse.

I looked in the past but I have never been able to confirm the numbers in this article... bad journalism. I've followed for many years the FP500 and I would be very surprised that suddenly Vancouver is ahead of Montreal in the number of headquarters among the first 500 companies based on revenue.

Totally different story here:

http://www5.statcan.gc.ca/cansim/a47?whe...ETRIEVAL&action%3Aa47=Appliquer&viewId=1

Based on stat Canada, Vancouver is third in the number of head offices, after Toronto and Montreal, and in fourth place in the number of head office employment. This is not surprising since Vancouver head office tend to be smaller.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by vanatox

I looked in the past but I have never been able to confirm the numbers in this article... I've followed for many years the FP500 and I would be very surprised that suddenly Vancouver is ahead of Montreal in the number of headquarters among the first 500 companies based on total revenue.

Totally different story here:

http://www5.statcan.gc.ca/cansim/a47?whe...ETRIEVAL&action%3Aa47=Appliquer&viewId=1

Those statscan figures are more consistent with what I've always heard.

[vanatox]

Ok I had a look...

I counted 53 head offices in 2014 among the first 500 for Vancouver (CMA), not 95... compared with 74 for Montreal (CMA)...

This ranking change a lot each year since it is based on revenue.

http://www.financialpost.com/news/fp500/2014/index.html

[ssiguy]

But look at the SIZE of the corporations. Not one company in the TSX top 40 has their head office in Vancouver.

[LeftCoaster]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

But look at the SIZE of the corporations. Not one company in the TSX top 40 has their head office in Vancouver.

Telus Corporation
Teck Resources Limited
Silver Wheaton Corp.
Goldcorp Inc.
Eldorado Gold Corp.
First Quantum Minerals Ltd.

All on the S&PTSX60 as of Q1 2016.

It's not a huge list but come on man, you don't even try to make true statements.

Vancouver is expected to have the fastest growing economy in Canada for the next 4 years (that's as far as the forecasts go), so clearly things aren't as bad as you make it out there.

[CanSpice]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

But look at the SIZE of the corporations. Not one company in the TSX top 40 has their head office in Vancouver.

You said "absolutely no head offices", which is demonstrably false. Stop shifting the goalposts, especially when you've just scored an own goal.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster

....Vancouver is expected to have the fastest growing economy in Canada for the next 4 years (that's as far as the forecasts go), so clearly things aren't as bad as you make it out there.

Strip out real estate chicanery and I wonder where that ranking would be.

[GreaterMontréal]

Less head offices from 2012 to 2014 for To-Mtl-Van-Cal, more more employment, bizarre non ?

[Rico Rommheim]

So Quebec's highest earning corp. is a Dep operation based in Laval. And this is larger revenues than the entire TD banking empire. How Quebecois...


Also interesting to see that Scotia Bank is still listed as HQ'ed in Halifax. And BMO in Montreal.

[GreaterMontréal]

Originally Posted by Rico Rommheim

So Quebec's highest earning corp. is a Dep operation based in Laval. And this is larger revenues than the entire TD banking empire. How Quebecois...


Also interesting to see that Scotia Bank is still listed as HQ'ed in Halifax. And BMO in Montreal.

CDPQ + 58.9% , profit $23B

2.5x more than RBC, at $8.3B

CDPQ is now worth more than $250B. ($248B in december 2015)

[casper]

Originally Posted by rousseau

I couldn't find a single manufacturer on that Wikipedia page. There surely must be some, as I didn't click on every single link. I did see a of couple forestry and mining companies.

Why would you post a link to a list of companies not in the manufacturing sector in response to a statement that there is almost no manufacturing in Vancouver?

Let me help out.......

First off that wiki page is only for companies based in Vancouver. Vancouver is pretty small and very built out. That basically means high density and expensive, not where your usually find much manufacturing. Most manufacturing is going to be in the subburbs (Burnaby, Richmond, Delta etc.). You will get a better feeling looking at the other pages. A good example of a company that would be missing is Ebco Industries (they built power turbins and large parts for ships etc.) They are based in Richmond. I think Seaspan in North Vancouver is another ship building that can not be neglected. The lower mainland also still has a lot of forest products based manufacturing, e.g., paper and manufactured wood products.

But just looking at the Vancouver list and excluding software you have:

Allied Shipbuilders (They repair and manufacture ships)

AVI Sound International (They make speakers)

Avigilon (Security system gear)

Brodie Bicycles (They make bicycles)

Canfor (The manufacture wood products and some paper)

Dairyland Canada (now part of Agrifoods International they process milk and make cheese) As it turns out food is the largest sub-sector of manufacturing in the world. BC has its fair share.

Daiya (dairy alternatives)

EnWave (Microwave based dehydration machines)

Granville Island Brewing (they make beer)

HTnaturals (clothing)

I could continue on but hopefully that is a start.

[casper]

Originally Posted by CanSpice

You said "absolutely no head offices", which is demonstrably false. Stop shifting the goalposts, especially when you've just scored an own goal.

The TSX 40 is also not the best definition to look at. There are several family empires based in Vancouver that are fairly significant in size. The Pattison Group is a good example.

[giallo]

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster

Telus Corporation
Teck Resources Limited
Silver Wheaton Corp.
Goldcorp Inc.
Eldorado Gold Corp.
First Quantum Minerals Ltd.

All on the S&PTSX60 as of Q1 2016.

It's not a huge list but come on man, you don't even try to make true statements.

Vancouver is expected to have the fastest growing economy in Canada for the next 4 years (that's as far as the forecasts go), so clearly things aren't as bad as you make it out there.

ssiguy only speaks in hyberbole.