LeBreton Flats 2.0 (RendezVous LeBreton) | Cancelled

[m3i6]

Devcore... why did you not also propose to bring in an NBA team. Even if the team never did materialize, at least it would have made your arena a more probably reality then only depending on the Sens as the main tenant.

[Horus]

Originally Posted by m3i6

Devcore... why did you not also propose to bring in an NBA team. Even if the team never did materialize, at least it would have made your arena a more probably reality then only depending on the Sens as the main tenant.

That would probably detract from the credibility of their bid, rather than add to it. The NBA has not shown any interest in expansion or franchise relocation lately, and even if they did, nobody is going to believe that Ottawa a credible choice when there are at least 2 (Seattle, Montreal) cities that are much more attractive an option.

As for the Eugene Melnyk stuff, there is no story there. Eugene has been outspoken about his team, but it's not been to the detriment of the league thus far. Any thought of an NHL-led conspiracy to bounce him as owner of the team is speculative at best.

Should Devcore win, they will make an effort to purchase the team in order to provide a tenant for their proposed arena. Despite what Melnyk says, he would absolutely sell the team for the right price. For now, he is taking the only position that he can reasonably take - that is to say he will not sell the team. What else is he supposed to say?

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by Horus

Should Devcore win, they will make an effort to purchase the team in order to provide a tenant for their proposed arena. Despite what Melnyk says, he would absolutely sell the team for the right price. For now, he is taking the only position that he can reasonably take - that is to say he will not sell the team. What else is he supposed to say?

That's on the speculative side too. We have no information about Devcore's financial arrangements; they have named several billionaires as partners but they have said nothing (they didn't even come to Ottawa during the lobbying phase) about how much they are willing to invest, whether they are drawing money from the corporate side (i.e. Power Corp). Certainly the Demarais family has been among the richest in Canada for decades and have shown zero interest in hockey, despite several expansion opportunities appearing, the sens being available out of bankruptcy a little over a decade ago, the Leafs and Habs both changing hands within the last few years. Frankly, there has been nothing stopping them from making a "reasonable offer" to Melnyk at any time, which would have been a lot easier before Melnyk had finalized his lebretton bid.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by m3i6

Devcore... why did you not also propose to bring in an NBA team. Even if the team never did materialize, at least it would have made your arena a more probably reality then only depending on the Sens as the main tenant.

Even in the unlikely scenario that Ottawa could land an NBA team, is there really a need for two 18,000-seat NHL/NBA calibre arenas in the Ottawa area?

[J.OT13]

Horus; is their actual interest in Montreal for an NBA team?

If Devecore wins, I don't think Melnyk will sell the team. He would keep the Sens, in Kanata out of spite (just to be clear, I have nothing against Melnyk or his tactics).

Another problem with Devecore's backers, the individuals (Desmarais, Laliberté), if one drops dead, then re-Imagined is screwed (something they bring up on Dragon's Den as a reason not to invest on a person). The Sens have companies as backers, not individuals, such as Brookfield (one of the largest office developers in the world).

[Kitchissippi]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Another problem with Devecore's backers, the individuals (Desmarais, Laliberté), if one drops dead, then re-Imagined is screwed (something they bring up on Dragon's Den as a reason not to invest on a person). The Sens have companies as backers, not individuals, such as Brookfield (one of the largest office developers in the world).

That only applies to special talent and skill, not money. I doubt those individuals are personally investing, it's likely that their holding companies will be the ones involved, which continue on as family inheritance.

The problem I see with the RV plan is that it relies heavily on condo development for most of the site, which may take over 30+ years to happen. From the point of view of the NCC, I would imagine that they would put high priority on filling the space along the parkway/Wellington corridor as soon as possible to paper over the bleakness of the landscape.

[Horus]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Horus; is their actual interest in Montreal for an NBA team?

There were a few pieces written after the Raptors most recent pre-season tour stop at the Bell Centre that perhaps Montreal would be an interesting market for the NBA. In a lot of ways, it was similar to the annual "Bring back Baseball to Montreal" stories that come out around the Jays pre-season games at the Big O. It might be idle musing by the Montreal press. In any case, Montreal probably makes a more compelling case for the NBA than Ottawa does.

Originally Posted by J.OT13

If Devecore wins, I don't think Melnyk will sell the team. He would keep the Sens, in Kanata out of spite (just to be clear, I have nothing against Melnyk or his tactics).

I wouldn't see Melnyk coming in as a tenant to the Devcore arena, nor would I see him considering taking ownership of the new Arena at the Devcore development, as has been suggested in this Citizen Article.

If Devcore were to win the bid, I believe Melnyk would sell the team if offered enough money. Whether or not the two groups would pursue that, is anyone's guess, but that same article suggests that Devcore would like to acquire the team.

[acottawa]

Maybe the NCC should just split the difference. Give half the site to Devcore for its pavilions and half to rendez vouz for their arena. Maybe a little competition between the condos and retail on both sides would be a good thing.

[HighwayStar]

Originally Posted by Kitchissippi

The problem I see with the RV plan is that it relies heavily on condo development for most of the site, which may take over 30+ years to happen. From the point of view of the NCC, I would imagine that they would put high priority on filling the space along the parkway/Wellington corridor as soon as possible to paper over the bleakness of the landscape.

Though my gut tells me you are correct, I think it would be very shortsighted and sad. While that giant, shiny car museum will create a visual impact when driving by, I can hardly see it being a major draw. So the space is filled, and the landscape less bleak... but will people flock to it at 7:30 on a Tuesday night?

[TransitZilla]

Originally Posted by acottawa

Maybe the NCC should just split the difference. Give half the site to Devcore for its pavilions and half to rendez vouz for their arena. Maybe a little competition between the condos and retail on both sides would be a good thing.

I've thought the same thing. Especially since the RFP was split into the core parcels and the "option lands". Maybe one group will get the option lands and the other will get the rest? We shall see.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Horus

There were a few pieces written after the Raptors most recent pre-season tour stop at the Bell Centre that perhaps Montreal would be an interesting market for the NBA. In a lot of ways, it was similar to the annual "Bring back Baseball to Montreal" stories that come out around the Jays pre-season games at the Big O. It might be idle musing by the Montreal press. In any case, Montreal probably makes a more compelling case for the NBA than Ottawa does.



I wouldn't see Melnyk coming in as a tenant to the Devcore arena, nor would I see him considering taking ownership of the new Arena at the Devcore development, as has been suggested in this Citizen Article.


If Devcore were to win the bid, I believe Melnyk would sell the team if offered enough money. Whether or not the two groups would pursue that, is anyone's guess, but that same article suggests that Devcore would like to acquire the team.

Yeah, I bet that if Melnyk's bid is not chosen, a considerable amount of time, energy and money will be spent by Devcore trying to get the Sens to play at LeBreton, either by buying the team or getting Melnyk to reconsider playing in someone else's building.

And if that doesn't work out, I can see Devcore dropping the arena plan (or maybe downsizing it in a big way) and making excuses and apologies to the NCC ("it just wasn't mean to be").

It sucks but this sort of thing happens all the time.

[J.OT13]

If Devecore wins, I doubt the place will look anywhere near to what they have shown us.

[zzptichka]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Yeah, I bet that if Melnyk's bid is not chosen, a considerable amount of time, energy and money will be spent by Devcore trying to get the Sens to play at LeBreton, either by buying the team or getting Melnyk to reconsider playing in someone else's building.

And if that doesn't work out, I can see Devcore dropping the arena plan (or maybe downsizing it in a big way) and making excuses and apologies to the NCC ("it just wasn't mean to be").

It sucks but this sort of thing happens all the time.

Why would Devcore even put any energy into purchasing the team? They'd make an offer, get a NO, shrug and just build condos around their plazas. That would save them a ton of money.
Pretty sure that was their plan all along.

[Horus]

Originally Posted by zzptichka

Why would Devcore even put any energy into purchasing the team? They'd make an offer, get a NO, shrug and just build condos around their plazas. That would save them a ton of money.
Pretty sure that was their plan all along.

They kind of have to try to get the team into their arena. Their bid contained an NHL-sized arena, which they indicated was for use by the Senators. If they win the bid and then drop the arena, that's a pretty significant bait-and-switch, is it not?

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by Horus

They kind of have to try to get the team into their arena. Their bid contained an NHL-sized arena, which they indicated was for use by the Senators. If they win the bid and then drop the arena, that's a pretty significant bait-and-switch, is it not?

A sensible strategy from their perspective.

[HighwayStar]

Originally Posted by Horus

They kind of have to try to get the team into their arena. Their bid contained an NHL-sized arena, which they indicated was for use by the Senators. If they win the bid and then drop the arena, that's a pretty significant bait-and-switch, is it not?

But who cares? Once they've won... they've won.

The citizenry of Ottawa is extremely passive and any controversy will die out within minutes. The cynic in me says this entire endeavour is about individual money and political connections.... what is best for the people of this city is purely secondary.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by HighwayStar

But who cares? Once they've won... they've won.

The citizenry of Ottawa is extremely passive and any controversy will die out within minutes. The cynic in me says this entire endeavour is about individual money and political connections.... what is best for the people of this city is purely secondary.

And I thought I was cynical.

But this is the last chance to build an NHL arena downtown. It has to happen this time or never.

[AndyZagg]

For RV, having the team downtown increases the value of the team by hundreds of millions. And for Devcore it increases the value of the land because it draws in so many people to the restaurants and businesses. It is valuable for either and both groups to have the team there. So they will find a way to get it done one way or the other.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by AndyZagg

For RV, having the team downtown increases the value of the team by hundreds of millions. And for Devcore it increases the value of the land because it draws in so many people to the restaurants and businesses. It is valuable for either and both groups to have the team there. So they will find a way to get it done one way or the other.

A huge chunk of the value of the team is in the building and ancillary revenues. Teams that don't own their own arenas (Florida, Tampa, Columbus, etc) are near the bottom of team valuations. Sens are not going to move downtown to be a tenant in a devcore arena. If devcore wins some arrangement may be possible (like they sell or lease part of the land to the Sens), but may not be likely. .

[phil235]

Originally Posted by acottawa

A huge chunk of the value of the team is in the building and ancillary revenues. Teams that don't own their own arenas (Florida, Tampa, Columbus, etc) are near the bottom of team valuations. Sens are not going to move downtown to be a tenant in a devcore arena. If devcore wins some arrangement may be possible (like they sell or lease part of the land to the Sens), but may not be likely. .

Franchise values have more to do with the market they play in than with arena ownership. A lease with good terms can be as valuable to a team as owning the building.