Edmonton Construction 13 (November 2015)

[Mikemike]

Originally Posted by kcantor

you can't pick and choose only one side of the equation. yes, oliver is denser per m2 of asphalt but oliver is also a much heavier user per m2 of asphalt to the point where the replacement/repair cost per resident is likely similar to other neighborhoods. and before you counter with "but we walk more and drive less", those lanes deteriorate more from garbage trucks and bins and service vehicles etc. than they do from cars. which is also a reason to include lanes in all those neighborhoods that have them.

You know as well as I do that they don't repave streets with 3 times the population density 3 times as often.

But let's try this again.

Neighbourhood A has 36' wide streets and no alleys. The entire street is rehabilitated on the city's collective dime.

Neighbourhood B has 24' wide streets and 10' wide alleys. The alley have no curbs and no manholes to work around. Only the street is re-paved by the city. Not fair, is it?

Unless I missed where you advocated leaving the excess 12' of the wider street to fall apart, that would be fair too.

[s4.audios]

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't this a very similar dilemma to the new far out suburbs being costly to build and service and how inner city or mature neighborhood prop taxes are being allocated to the cost of the burbs? In a general sense back alleys are almost all in mature neighborhoods so it is really a vice versa dilemma. I live downtown and if part of my taxes go to help service the burbs then I better damn well see everyone's tax going to fixing my back alley also.

[SHOFEAR]

Originally Posted by 240glt

^ but I'm already paying an extra $400 a year levy on my property taxes for the neighbourhood reconstruction done at both properties, how is that different than asking owners to pay a portion of the alley reconstruction ? Eventually new neighbourhoods will need to be rebuilt and owners there will pay a levy when that is done

Not that I think this is ideal by any means but it's how it works now so I don't see a significant difference if alleys are added to the equation. I've been complaining about the Parkdale alley for years, and occasionally they'll attempt to fill the craters but it's terrible. I don't see anything getting done if they don't float a levy

We paid for the laneway behind the Icons with a local levy. All lanes should be done that way.....in fact all infrastructure rehab should be done what way....

Maybe then people will understand that the maintenance legacy of those mature neighborhoods are much more of a liability than new construction with vastly superior design and materials.

[CMD UW]

Fact is that it's the taxes from commercial and industrial properties that pay for the bulk of the costs. Residential mill rates (no matter if in existing or in new communities) don't cover much compared to the demand/use of services.

[kcantor]

Originally Posted by Mikemike

You know as well as I do that they don't repave streets with 3 times the population density 3 times as often.

But let's try this again.

Neighbourhood A has 36' wide streets and no alleys. The entire street is rehabilitated on the city's collective dime.

Neighbourhood B has 24' wide streets and 10' wide alleys. The alley have no curbs and no manholes to work around. Only the street is re-paved by the city. Not fair, is it?

Unless I missed where you advocated leaving the excess 12' of the wider street to fall apart, that would be fair too.

maybe you missed "which is also a reason to include lanes in all those neighborhoods that have them"? i was in fact agreeing with your conclusion, if not your rationale. there are many good reasons (all the way to less particulate matter in the air contributing to higher maintenance and cleaning and health issues on adjacent lands and occupants etc.) for the lanes to be paved in the first place as a part of good municipal infrastructure without having to invent silly comparables. and the city should be maintaining all of its infrastructure, not just some of it.

[big W]

Originally Posted by CMD UW

Fact is that it's the taxes from commercial and industrial properties that pay for the bulk of the costs. Residential mill rates (no matter if in existing or in new communities) don't cover much compared to the demand/use of services.

That's 100% correct. Residential Mill rates are about 35% of commercial mill rates in Edmonton. Or put this in another way that would make it easier for most to follow:

The average homeowner pays approximately $2,400 per year in property taxes. Manulife Place or a single off building downtown pays about as much as 2,500 homes a year in property taxes which is more taxes than entire subdivions in the City of Edmonton.

[240glt]

Originally Posted by SHOFEAR

We paid for the laneway behind the Icons with a local levy. All lanes should be done that way.....in fact all infrastructure rehab should be done what way....

Maybe then people will understand that the maintenance legacy of those mature neighborhoods are much more of a liability than new construction with vastly superior design and materials.

It's all a liability, new or old, central or suburban. At one point or another it'll all need to be rehabbed

Typically the city requires alleys to be improved by developers proposing major developments as part of their DP package. Why would they not have done that for your building ?

[SHOFEAR]

Originally Posted by 240glt

It's all a liability, new or old, central or suburban. At one point or another it'll all need to be rehabbed

Not really. Drainage in old neighborhoods —. No major overland route (how many hundreds of millions are being spent to add dry ponds and storage in those older neighborhoods because there is not a series of storm ponds to buffer the flow to an environmentally responsible pre development flow to the receiving water body??) curbs with small grades that don't properly convey flow to catch basins causing potholes and road failures. depth of roadway structure, — pipes, separate sidewalks, horribly inefficient grids that cause these neighborhoods to have a higher ratio of road area to lot area.....

I'm all for allowing people to live in wherever they want, but lets be consistent in ensuring they are responsible for the costs associated with their choices.

Typically the city requires alleys to be improved by developers proposing major developments as part of their DP package. Why would they not have done that for your building ?

I don't think this was the case 9 years ago or so when they first started to build. Either way, it seems much more sensible to distribute this cost to all property owners who border the lane than to force one development (and the people buying in it) to burden the entire cost.

[240glt]

Originally Posted by SHOFEAR

Not really. Drainage in old neighborhoods —. No major overland route (how many hundreds of millions are being spent to add dry ponds and storage in those older neighborhoods because there is not a series of storm ponds to buffer the flow to an environmentally responsible pre development flow to the receiving water body??) curbs with small grades that don't properly convey flow to catch basins causing potholes and road failures. depth of roadway structure, — pipes, separate sidewalks, horribly inefficient grids that cause these neighborhoods to have a higher ratio of road area to lot area.....

I'm all for allowing people to live in wherever they want, but lets be consistent in ensuring they are responsible for the costs associated with their choices. [/i]

no one pays the full cost of their choices. You, me, everyone else is subsidized significantly through other revenue streams

And yes even those new efficient subdivisions will be inefficient and dilapidated at some point. At my Parkdale house, they redid all the infrastructure (and residents pay a portion of it) but the area is experiencing significant densification, which the city wants. Infrastructure needs to be upgraded to accept the capacity.

[Daveography]

FYI I just got confirmation from another source on the JW Marriott tower, it will be approximately 195m above grade, 56 stories. I don't know why there is a discrepancy in the DP, and couldn't get an answer on that particular question.

[Coldrsx]

Mr. Burns excellent.

[Black Star]

Good news......Im rounding it up to 200 meters

[vaportrail]

Originally Posted by Daveography

FYI I just got confirmation from another source on the JW Marriott tower, it will be approximately 195m above grade, 56 stories. I don't know why there is a discrepancy in the DP, and couldn't get an answer on that particular question.

The answer is that the folks at the city generally aren't overly concerned with the accuracy of relatively inconsequential minutiae in development descriptions. At least not to the extent that some of us are.

[Coldrsx]

^they most certainly are, come on now.

[vaportrail]

^ No, they most certainly are not.

No doubt city employees do what's necessary to complete each part of the development application lifecycle and do so with requisite attention to detail. The written description we see online is nowhere near the top of the attention-to-detail list. I state this based on direct experience and interaction with folks from planning on various vagaries and minor inaccuracies in such descriptions.

[Coldrsx]

Sorry, I thought you meant during review, yes, the more informal descriptions seem to have less attention.

[Hallsy's Toupee]

Edmonton cyclists feel squeezed by High Level Bridge barriers
New barriers placed inside existing rail, squeezing space for cyclists.
http://www.metronews.ca/news/edmonton/20...ueezed-by-high-level-bridge-barrier.html

[Makenosmallplans]

Originally Posted by Hallsy's Toupee

Edmonton cyclists feel squeezed by High Level Bridge barriers
New barriers placed inside existing rail, squeezing space for cyclists.
http://www.metronews.ca/news/edmonton/20...ueezed-by-high-level-bridge-barrier.html

This is true. and as the article points out, worse because only one side of the bridge is open. even when both sides are open it will be much tighter.

[itom 987]

^ That looks awful.

[240glt]

Gezus, it looks like a prison wall

Drove across the HLB last weekend. That fence is definitely imposing. It looks even worse with the drooping cables, which apparently are done that way specifically to make them harder to climb