Millennium Line - Evergreen Extension | Completed

[Aroundtheworld]

Originally Posted by BCPhil

So, pretty much right on time for the originally planned summer opening of the Evergreen line.



I think they could have easily built Brentwood station, and the rest of the guideway through that area, on the south side of Lougheed. At the time, it was entirely parking lots (and car dealership parking lots) lining that side of the street. They bought up a lot of rights to go over property and parking lots all along Lougheed (all the other Lougheed stations are on the side of the roadway).

But I think they were looking ahead to the potential of that location. By putting the station over the roadway, it preserves the property lines so density and build form can be maximized right up to the Lougheed. You can create a urban area that has a vibrant transit focused pedestrian quality while the buildings still have access to a major road. Away from Lougheed you can bring the pedestrian space back down to the streets.

I think the area around Brentwood (from Beta to Gilmore) actually has a better potential to be Burnaby's main "Downtown". It has a more complete street grid with smaller blocks. There are a lot more office jobs close to it (in Still creek and Canada Way area) and even some light industrial and BCIT is about 5 minutes away.

Metrotown is "bigger" today because it is on the main spine of the transit network, from Surrey to Downtown. But with the Millennium line extending to Coquitlam and through central Broadway (sooner or later) and maybe to UBC, that focus could change pretty quickly. Just think of all the employment centers located on a full Millennium line compared to the Expo line.

You may be on to something with Brentwood becoming more of a 'Downtown' than Metrotown. To build on your point, I think the extension of the Millennium Line to Central Broadway and UBC will have a bigger effect than anticipated.

When you look at the Skytrain maps, it becomes clear that if the Millennium Line is extended Central Broadway will be come as accessible (if not more) to the region than Downtown Vancouver. You will be able to access Central Broadway from the west, south (Richmond) and east (North Burnaby, Coquitlam) without a transfer. Once it the line is extended, we may see Central Broadway become like Toronto's Yorkville, a hub next near downtown (it sort of is already)

[Olden Retreiver]

Originally Posted by BCPhil

So, pretty much right on time for the originally planned summer opening of the Evergreen line...

...except that the station is still a construction zone with no fare gates installed. WCE passengers have to wend their way through the inefficient station layout, then make their way through the waiting crowd to tap in at the eastern and western extremities of the platform, then walk back again to a waiting position.

TransLink manages to abuse and offend a segment of their clientele who were previously well satisfied with their service.

[finalcoolman]

Originally Posted by Olden Retreiver

...except that the station is still a construction zone with no fare gates installed. WCE passengers have to wend their way through the inefficient station layout, then make their way through the waiting crowd to tap in at the eastern and western extremities of the platform, then walk back again to a waiting position.

TransLink manages to abuse and offend a segment of their clientele who were previously well satisfied with their service.

The Compass readers and TVM 's will be moved to their permanent positions within the actual lobby of the new station by the end of the month.

[BCPhil]

Originally Posted by Olden Retreiver

...except that the station is still a construction zone with no fare gates installed. WCE passengers have to wend their way through the inefficient station layout, then make their way through the waiting crowd to tap in at the eastern and western extremities of the platform, then walk back again to a waiting position.

TransLink manages to abuse and offend a segment of their clientele who were previously well satisfied with their service.

I imagine that by "Summer 2016" they meant August. Still summer and allows them to work out the kinks before the September crush (like the "Summer" launch of the Canada line). August is still 4 months away. A lot of finishing touches can be done in that time.

[xd_1771]

Does anyone remember if there were any local business complaints on North Road when the E-Line's elevated segment was being built up to Burquitlam?

As far as I'm aware the construction crews were able to keep a lane open and there were zero complaints from local businesses, but I'd like to be sure about that. You guys might be able to dig up this info for me (haven't had the time for that), it'll be useful in some myth-busting I'm looking to do over SkyTrain construction.

[finalcoolman]

Originally Posted by xd_1771

Does anyone remember if there were any local business complaints on North Road when the E-Line's elevated segment was being built up to Burquitlam?

As far as I'm aware the construction crews were able to keep a lane open and there were zero complaints from local businesses, but I'd like to be sure about that. You guys might be able to dig up this info for me (haven't had the time for that), it'll be useful in some myth-busting I'm looking to do over SkyTrain construction.

Yes, the Tri-City news ran a couple of articles nine-months apart, although they are both mainly about the same business complaining; Euro Food @ 555 North Road.

http://www.tricitynews.com/news/parking-...ales-for-some-coquitlam-stores-1.1876771

http://www.tricitynews.com/news/north-road-business-slumps-due-to-evergreen-construction-1.1893524

[Kisai]

Originally Posted by finalcoolman

Yes, the Tri-City news ran a couple of articles nine-months apart, although they are both mainly about the same business complaining; Euro Food @ 555 North Road.

http://www.tricitynews.com/news/parking-...ales-for-some-coquitlam-stores-1.1876771

http://www.tricitynews.com/news/north-road-business-slumps-due-to-evergreen-construction-1.1893524

Removing on-street parking is the cost of doing business in a city. On-street parking only exists only until a bus-lane or the city sticks something like a bike lane or streetcar through it. Which is inevitable.

This is not the same reason the Cambie Street corridor was such a mess (as people couldn't drive to the businesses.) How much has the Canada Line subway sections improved business since? I guess it would depend on how reliant the customers were previously on their cars.

If they lost money, that was their decision. They could have justified just closing the store for two months or hired a shuttle-bus.

From the second article

because they can't find parking on a side street or because a small lot at the side of the mall is full.

Oh, so there IS a parking lot, well then the problem isn't the Evergreen construction, it's their landlord.

[BCPhil]

Originally Posted by Kisai

Removing on-street parking is the cost of doing business in a city. On-street parking only exists only until a bus-lane or the city sticks something like a bike lane or streetcar through it. Which is inevitable.

This is not the same reason the Cambie Street corridor was such a mess (as people couldn't drive to the businesses.) How much has the Canada Line subway sections improved business since? I guess it would depend on how reliant the customers were previously on their cars.

If they lost money, that was their decision. They could have justified just closing the store for two months or hired a shuttle-bus.

From the second article

Oh, so there IS a parking lot, well then the problem isn't the Evergreen construction, it's their landlord.

That's a bit harsh. How many people could really just stop working for 2 months with no income? If government actions are causing harm to a person or business, there should be compensation. Even in some of the libertarian laissez faire states in the US they set up compensation boards to help mitigate any losses as a direct result of LRT construction.

However, correlation is not causation. I'm not sold on the logic behind a food store making a whole lot of extra money at Christmas (and complaining about it days before Christmas) and losing a few parking spots makes that much of a difference (and still complaining about it months later). It's more likely that their "senior clients" are just getting too old to shop (or sadly dying), and the younger clientele are just more interested in the Save On across the street.

At least on Cambie street, the governments took a lot of steps to try to mitigate any damages. They ran advertising campaigns on behalf of the Cambie village and opened up usually restricted parking for the businesses.

But this business in Coquitlam is probably one of the only along Evergreen line that lost any form of access. Almost every other business on North Road has dedicated parking lots. I imagine this business got away in zoning with a smaller parking lot than needed because they were guaranteed on street parking.

[Kisai]

Originally Posted by BCPhil

That's a bit harsh. How many people could really just stop working for 2 months with no income?

I'm not heartless, but sometimes the kind of complaints I see in the newspaper, be it Malcom's insane ramblings or someone who is a NIMBY complain about something they oppose because they hadn't the fore-through (see the Arbutus corridor garden squatters) to think a few years ahead instead of a few days.

[BCPhil]

Originally Posted by Kisai

I'm not heartless, but sometimes the kind of complaints I see in the newspaper, be it Malcom's insane ramblings or someone who is a NIMBY complain about something they oppose because they hadn't the fore-through (see the Arbutus corridor garden squatters) to think a few years ahead instead of a few days.

Arbutus corridor garden squatters weren't really losing their gardens in exchange for something that benefited the public domain. CP running trains on a spur they previously abandoned to intentionally annoy local residents to extort a higher price from the city for the land doesn't really equal a new transit line.

And Malcom's ramblings are just his biased, uninformed, misleading opinions and not someone's livelihood going down the toilet. I would never compare someone who has actually accomplished something tangible like set up a small business and is in the process of losing it due to actions beyond their control with someone who rants on the internet and compares Translink to the Nazi party.

The only thing they all have in common is that they disagree with you.

And even then, there is no indication that the owners of the business on North Road is against the Evergreen line. They are just saying they were told one thing and something different happened; they felt mislead and it cost them financially. Are their damages legit? I don't know, but I wouldn't brush them off as NIMBYs. Beyond that, they seem to be the only ones significantly harmed by construction; so if anything, their damages might have just been an oversight that needs correcting.

[queetz@home]

Originally Posted by BCPhil

And even then, there is no indication that the owners of the business on North Road is against the Evergreen line. They are just saying they were told one thing and something different happened; they felt mislead and it cost them financially. Are their damages legit? I don't know, but I wouldn't brush them off as NIMBYs. Beyond that, they seem to be the only ones significantly harmed by construction; so if anything, their damages might have just been an oversight that needs correcting.

I know this doesn't directly answer Daryl's question but there are residents that were "affected" by the Evergreen Line construction. The most prominent among them was Marketing Professor Lindsay Meredith....

From the Straight....

Lindsay Meredith, a Simon Fraser University marketing professor, lives a few blocks downhill from the Clarke and Seaview intersection and the huge black asphalt patch to repair the sinkhole. He blames the Evergreen Line tunnel trouble for an unwelcome change to the ravine on his property. One stream slowed to a trickle and another swelled beside it. A bank that should have been dry after the summer drought became waterlogged.

“I put in thousands of hours and wrecked my back down here, and thousands of dollars,” Meredith said. “Well, you can see what’s happened: bridges over empty chasms, fundamentally.

“I haven’t heard any 🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵 apologies yet. I certainly heard no promises about, ‘Yeah, we’re going to fix this for you.’ ”

[Monolith]

They are testing a six car Mk1 train today near Coquitlam Centre.


Taken by me.

It is so glorious to hear the wonderful sound of the Mk1 LIMs in Coquitlam.

[BCPhil]

Originally Posted by Monolith

They are testing a six car Mk1 train today around Coquitlam Centre. Sorry, no pics.

It is so glorious to hear the wonderful sound of the Mk1 LIMs in Coquitlam.

Are they testing them at a higher speed yet?

[Monolith]

Originally Posted by BCPhil

Are they testing them at a higher speed yet?

The speed was variable at the sections of track that I could see. It seemed to be traveling at a good clip at one point.

[officedweller]

BIV article:

Evergreen Line delay costs lead to mediation, B.C. government hiding info on costs, changes and challenges
https://www.biv.com/article/2016/4/evergreen-line-delay-costs-lead-mediation-bc-gover/

Cross posting to the Broadway Extension thread as it also cites a couple FOI released documents about that project.

[WarrenC12]

Well, the fact that everybody is so secretive about this doesn't sound like it's good news.

In my experience (not in transportation), the government takes the lowest bidder, and then the discussions begin about how the contractor can add scope (and price) to the deal to try and eke out some profitability for themselves.

[officedweller]

Yeah, they'd be arguing over the "cause" of the various cost increases, with the contractor arguing they result from changes in the work, but changes should all be priced in advance of authorization.

[mrtinvan]

and then the discussions begin about how the contractor can add scope (and price) to the deal to try and eke out some profitability for themselves.

I've worked on civil (Private) contruction jobs where the only profit we have made is through change orders. There is always something that the client is going to want to change or add and at that point contractors margins tend to go up 10% over standards...

[BobLoblawsLawBlog]

Does anyone know why new Skytrain station platforms are always separated? I prefer when the station has the platform in the middle because it makes things less confusing.

Are divided platforms cheaper?

[Jebby]

Originally Posted by BobLoblawsLawBlog

Does anyone know why new Skytrain station platforms are always separated? I prefer when the station has the platform in the middle because it makes things less confusing.

Are divided platforms cheaper?

Yes, they likely are cheaper since you don't have to split the guideway before entering the station.

Simpler design, more standard guideway parts = cheaper