New Downtown Calgary Arena

[joe498]

- CalgaryNext proposal torpedoed by city report that pegs total cost at $1.8B
- Actual price tag would be twice what Calgary Flames owners claimed last summer, city staff say

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/calgarynext-city-report-torpedoes-project-1.3545509

[evolv]

Originally Posted by Socguy

I'm on board with you. I also feel that occupying so much of the West Village with this proposal is a waste of what will become prime real estate.

Nor have I seen any arguments so far that would convince me that this city NEEDS to spend hundreds of millions to replace a functional arena, when the prime beneficiaries are billionaires.

Unfortunately, due to the remediation requirements, I don't see this land being used for anything other than what's there currently or the arena project. The scale of the arena project made this feasible but I doubt any residential developer will be able to incur the remediation costs.

They may want to turn it into a park...

[You Need A Thneed]

Several big deal breakers.

Overall Cost
Remediation Duration (can't even start construction for at least 6 years)
CRL not adequate to fund cost.
Feildhouse function likely somewhat compromised.

[Ramsayfarian]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

I searched, didn't find Murray (at least, not his real name) in it. I didn't try any of the other owners. You can search for yourself here:
https://offshoreleaks.icij.org/

That's not all the documents.

[Bigtime]

Don't worry guys, this was completely expected. Plan B probably moving along for a few weeks now.

[People.talking]

Originally Posted by Bigtime

Don't worry guys, this was completely expected. Plan B probably moving along for a few weeks now.

well that's good news

[Spring2008]

This is dead - build arena on Stamped Grounds/Railtown,
the stadium can be renovated. West Village will make sense in about 15 - 20 years when there's much less competing prime development land and with CRL going to actual neighbourhood improvements/infrastructure, not to an arena. Would also need to be more high-density throughout, does flames ownership even pay property taxes on arena/stadium and if so, how much more would they pay in taxes than they currently do?

[Socguy]

To the surprise of no one, it turns out the big pay-day for billionaires is a nearly 2 billion dollar hit to the taxpayer.

The proposed location was wrong. Better for the city if the arena was on the stampede grounds. Of course that will drive the Flames nuts. It was never really about the arena but all the $$$ ownership can make on the real estate surrounding it.

The supposed cost savings from making some mega-facility was not there either. Administration recommends splitting them up to save on cost.

Moving forward, the city should always first look to renovate the Saddledome. Age is irrelevant, as long as the bones are good, there is no reason the city EVER needs to replace that thing.

As for football stadium, IF the city decides to go ahead with the field house then it might make sense to use it to replace MacMahon.

[Socguy]

Originally Posted by Spring2008

... does flames ownership even pay property taxes on arena/stadium and if so, how much more would they pay in taxes than they currently do?

Not exactly sure what the deal is currently, but with NEXT proposal they were likely going to try and structure it similarly to Edmonton. Up north, the Oilers are going to pay rent in the new arena but that rent considered to be the teams contribution to building the arena. To put it another way, the team tells the public that they're contributing $200 million to the project but when you read the fine print you discover that all they're doing is paying the city rent for 20 years while offloading the maintenance and upkeep costs to the city. There would be no property tax collected by the city as they would own the building.

Of course, we'll never really know since this proposal never really got past back-of-the-napkin stage.

[tomthumb2]

Originally Posted by Bigtime

Don't worry guys, this was completely expected. Plan B probably moving along for a few weeks now.

I'm not so sure of that. Does Ken King have ANY credibility left?

[suburbia]

Originally Posted by Socguy

To the surprise of no one ... The proposed location was wrong.

Only a year ago 90% on this forum were saying West Village was the best location. Surprised it is not a surprise to those 90%.

[H.E.Pennypacker]

Originally Posted by joe498

- CalgaryNext proposal torpedoed by city report that pegs total cost at $1.8B
- Actual price tag would be twice what Calgary Flames owners claimed last summer, city staff say

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/calgarynext-city-report-torpedoes-project-1.3545509

Not surprised by this in the least.

Back to the drawing board Ken King and Company..

[artvandelay]

The report is full of holes and makes every assumption possible to inflate the cost of the Calgary Next project.

Not surprising though given what's leaked out the mayor's office. They seem to have an irrational dislike for this project.

[craner]

Originally Posted by Bigtime

Don't worry guys, this was completely expected. Plan B probably moving along for a few weeks now.

I suspect (& hope) you're right.
Kind of explains why "NEXT" never progressed past a few quick renders and sketches.

[craner]

Originally Posted by Spring2008

This is dead - build arena on Stamped Grounds/Railtown,
the stadium can be renovated. West Village will make sense in about 15 - 20 years when there's much less competing prime development land and with CRL going to actual neighbourhood improvements/infrastructure, not to an arena.

Pretty much sums up my thoughts.

[craner]

Originally Posted by Socguy

Moving forward, the city should always first look to renovate the Saddledome. Age is irrelevant, as long as the bones are good, there is no reason the city EVER needs to replace that thing.

But the roof shape and support strength are issues.

As for football stadium, IF the city decides to go ahead with the field house then it might make sense to use it to replace MacMahon.

From the report it doesn't sound like the City wants to combine the stadium and fieldhouse in a single facility. I think they would be open to renovating McMahon and building a separate fieldhouse on the adjacent Foothills athletic site.

[bt04ku]

Originally Posted by Spring2008

This is dead - build arena on Stamped Grounds/Railtown,

Huzzah!

the stadium can be renovated.

Rather see a tear down and rebuild. Such a massive footprint for such a terrible building. But whatever is cheapest I suppose.

does flames ownership even pay property taxes on arena/stadium and if so, how much more would they pay in taxes than they currently do?

They don't own the building, and didn't intend on owning CalgaryNEXT, so no. They paid for their management fee and that acts as their form of rent. Standard practice for most professional teams that dupe cities into construction: get all the benefits of ownership while not having to pay property taxes, pretty sweet gig. IIRC the Flames' deal was something like ~$200,000-400,000 a year to amateur sport in the city for management rights to the Saddledome, meanwhile the Habs pay ~$8M a year in property tax because they actually own the Bell Centre. Know what deal I'd rather have all else being equal.

[Pavlov]

Yikes, this has turned into a boondoggle.

If Railtown becomes plan B, I wonder if there is an opportunity right now for integration with a Green line station? Might be a silver lining at least.

[WhipperSnapper]

building new is soooo much easier and cheaper than renovating when you're doing more than just cosmetic changes (which the Saddledome needs)

[O-tacular]

Originally Posted by H.E.Pennypacker

Not surprised by this in the least.

Back to the drawing board Ken King and Company..

You mean back of the diner napkin?