Canadian LRT/RT projects U/C - Page 28

bomberjet · #**541** Posted **Apr 18, 2016, 8:58 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by ssiguy

Are these Montreal LRT lines going to be real rapid transit like Calgary's CTrain or just glorified streetcars like Toronto's Finch LRT?

Calgary's C-train is glorified streetcars.

GreaterMontréal · #**542** Posted **Apr 18, 2016, 9:04 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by bomberjet

Calgary's C-train is glorified streetcars.

The Champlain-South Shore LRT will be rapid transit with 2 tracks running side by side. The downtown-YUL line, probably single track

the ridership projection on Champlain is 90,000 ppd, by 2021. The South Shore line could see up to 130,000 ppd, maybe more, we'll see.

You Need A Thneed · #**543** Posted **Apr 18, 2016, 9:08 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by bomberjet

Calgary's C-train is glorified streetcars.

Outside of the downtown area, not even close.

Chadillaccc · #**544** Posted **Apr 18, 2016, 9:13 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by bomberjet

Calgary's C-train is glorified streetcars.

Maybe for like 10% of the system. I imagine you've never actually been on it, since it's recognized as the 2nd fastest (average speed) mass transit system in the country, behind the Skytrain.

Cyro · #**545** Posted **Apr 18, 2016, 9:17 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by bomberjet

Calgary's C-train is glorified streetcars.

.....................

Yes, I rarely login to SSP after 4:18pm heheh but when I do it's for a really good reason...

caltrane74 · #**546** Posted **Apr 18, 2016, 11:45 PM**

LRT Construction photos - Kitchener

reaperexpress at UT

P0per at Urbantoronto

caltrane74 · #**547** Posted **Apr 18, 2016, 11:56 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by bomberjet

Calgary's C-train is glorified streetcars.

Hey what's wrong with Streetcars, almost every main street in downtown Toronto has a streetcar service with the exception of Bay Street and those streets with subway service. I'm telling you guys, you will never love a bus the way you love a streetcar.

Speaking of Streetcars - Streetcar number 4419 has shipped from Sudbury to Toronto, there has been a massive delay with the streetcars and service is only available on two routes with the new rides, for a least the next little while.

www.blogto.com

Innsertnamehere · #**548** Posted **Apr 19, 2016, 12:55 AM**

Thunder Bay, not Sudbury.

Metro-One · #**549** Posted **Apr 19, 2016, 1:00 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by caltrane74

Hey what's wrong with Streetcars, almost every main street in downtown Toronto has a streetcar service with the exception of Bay Street and those streets with subway service. I'm telling you guys, you will never love a bus the way you love a streetcar.

Speaking of Streetcars - Streetcar number 4419 has shipped from Sudbury to Toronto, there has been a massive delay with the streetcars and service is only available on two routes with the new rides, for a least the next little while.

www.blogto.com

Streetcars are fine, but not when they are your backbone system

caltrane74 · #**550** Posted **Apr 19, 2016, 1:11 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Metro-One

Streetcars are fine, but not when they are your backbone system

So better to have buses rumbling through our downtown? No way!!!

caltrane74 · #**551** Posted **Apr 19, 2016, 1:12 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

Thunder Bay, not Sudbury.

Lol! That's my subconscious speaking.

Metro-One · #**552** Posted **Apr 19, 2016, 1:17 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by caltrane74

So better to have buses rumbling through downtown? No way!!!

You are missing the point, if Toronto had no subway / or Go, and only had streetcars, well, they would be no better than driving.

For example, in Vancouver, the Canada Line and the Evergreen Line have been built as true metros (grade separated). At one point they were not going to be so, and having your trunk lines as at grade streetcars is a huge mistake.

caltrane74 · #**553** Posted **Apr 19, 2016, 1:30 AM**

Streetcars served as the backbone of Toronto transit since when Toronto had 10X less people than Edmonton or Calgary. They were the catalyst for tight urban growth right up until Toronto was basically the same size as Edmonton/Calgary, when buses took over (on the outskirts of downtown at least) and streetcar lines ripped out (like on Dupont/Annette/Bay). On top of that it was the Toronto Streetcar network's profitability that basically financed the Toronto subway. Imagine if those other Streetcar lines were not ripped out where we would be today, thankfully new streetcar lines were added to make up for those mistakes.

gentlepuppies · #**554** Posted **Apr 19, 2016, 1:40 AM**

The only advantage of at-grade LRT/streetcars over trolley buses has little to do with actual performance, but rather the fact that land values/development potential go up near a rail transit station.

Pollution: LRT same as trolley buses
Speed on a dedicated right-of-way: LRT same as trolley buses
Speed in shared traffic: LRT is stuck on a track while buses can go around obstacles.
Assessibility: both require platforms for level access; BRT buses typically have guiding devices for precision docking at platforms
Capacity: LRT > trolley buses, but the ridership loads we typically deal with never approach the levels where it even makes a difference. Most passengers would prefer higher-frequencies of lower-capacity vehicles
Capital Cost: LRT many times more expensive than trolley buses mainly due to required infrastructure
Operational Cost: LRT slightly cheaper than buses mainly due to less drivers

eemy · #**555** Posted **Apr 19, 2016, 2:40 AM**

Trolley buses can drive around obstructions?

nephersir7 · #**556** Posted **Apr 19, 2016, 3:33 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by GreaterMontréal

The downtown-YUL line, probably single track

You're most likely wrong on that. It would make no sense.

blacktrojan3921 · #**557** Posted **Apr 19, 2016, 4:50 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by caltrane74

Hey what's wrong with Streetcars, almost every main street in downtown Toronto has a streetcar service with the exception of Bay Street and those streets with subway service. I'm telling you guys, you will never love a bus the way you love a streetcar.

Speaking of Streetcars - Streetcar number 4419 has shipped from Sudbury to Toronto, there has been a massive delay with the streetcars and service is only available on two routes with the new rides, for a least the next little while.

www.blogto.com

When streetcars make sense and work, they work. When they don't work, you only need to look at the DC Streetcar to find out why they don't work for some cities. Or at least when they planned in a piss poor fashion lol

SFUVancouver · #**558** Posted **Apr 19, 2016, 6:16 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeremy_haak

Trolley buses can drive around obstructions?

Sure. They have battery packs in them. The new ones in Vancouver can detour the better part of a kilometer in a pinch, from what the manufacturer promises. Even Vancouver's old ones, which are now in some city in Argentina, could detour as required - easily a city block or more.

gunnar777 · #**559** Posted **Apr 19, 2016, 6:28 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by GreaterMontréal

The Champlain-South Shore LRT will be rapid transit with 2 tracks running side by side. The downtown-YUL line, probably single track

the ridership projection on Champlain is 90,000 ppd, by 2021. The South Shore line could see up to 130,000 ppd, maybe more, we'll see.

Do you mean that the south shore portion will be double-tracked, as in 2 tracks running in each direction to provide local and express services, and the yul portion will have a single track running in either direction?
I don't think the city/province nor La Caisse would invest in a single, bidirectional track for this project.

ssiguy · #**560** Posted **Apr 19, 2016, 7:54 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeremy_haak

Trolley buses can drive around obstructions?

Yes they certainly can. If a trolley bus has to go around an obstruction it can dislodge from the overhead catenary and run on battery and then get back onto the catenary when it has cleared.

As for the CTrain.............except for downtown where it is still in it's own ROW, the Ctrain is very fast and reliable. High speed mass transit does not require total grade separation.