General Update/Rumour thread [Urban Ottawa] - Page 237

Uhuniau · #**4721** Posted **Apr 5, 2016, 4:44 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by acottawa

It's really interesting to see what things were like before the NCC went on a demolition binge.

The pre-"urban renewal" Lowertown East is an amazing case of what could have been.

At least the "urban renewal" plan for that area never quite reached full flower.

McC · #**4722** Posted **Apr 5, 2016, 4:49 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by FutureWickedCity

My pick for ugliest building is the Colonel By Building at U of O... The smoke stack is certainly the worst component.
https://www.google.ca/search?q=universit...onel+by+building&imgrc=fWA-cDSW2w2tiM%3A

The power plant is a different building altogether.
https://goo.gl/maps/cnNcU19uvS42

Uhuniau · #**4723** Posted **Apr 5, 2016, 4:55 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by acottawa

I think more important than the age of the nieghbourhood layout (clearly many neighbourhoods built in the 50s were continuing projects halted by WWI or the Depression) is the age of the houses. Are the houses tightly-spaced with limited car infrastructure because it was expected most people would walk to the streetcar or the local shopping street (e.g. much of New Edinburgh) or are the houses loosely spaced with infrastructure set aside for cars because it was expected people would do their commuting and shopping by car (e.g. most of Overbrook). The former group seem to have had more luck with property values than the latter.

Good assessment. I'd divide neighbourhoods into three classes:

- The New Edinburghs: logical street layouts, mixed-use, built on the expectation that people WOULD walk for most purposes.

- The Kanatas: street layouts that only make sense to drivers, mass-segregated uses, main drags, "power centres" and office "campuses", built on the expectation that people WOULD drive for most purposes.

- The Overbrooks: logical street layout for the most part, semi-segregated land uses but still with main streets, built on the expectation that people WOULD drive for most purposes, but still laid out on the old walking principle.

We need to start building more suburbs on that third model. The official plans essentially call for that model. But we don't. Our developers don't propose them. City Hall doesn't insist on them. NIMBY chapters freak out if you propose building or retrofitting neighbourhoods to be more like them. And so Kanatas are all that ever gets proposed, approved, and built.

Uhuniau · #**4724** Posted **Apr 5, 2016, 4:55 PM**

Glad to see someone else appreciates the Carling substation!

YOWetal · #**4725** Posted **Apr 6, 2016, 3:13 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

Good assessment. I'd divide neighbourhoods into three classes:

- The New Edinburghs: logical street layouts, mixed-use, built on the expectation that people WOULD walk for most purposes.

- The Kanatas: street layouts that only make sense to drivers, mass-segregated uses, main drags, "power centres" and office "campuses", built on the expectation that people WOULD drive for most purposes.

- The Overbrooks: logical street layout for the most part, semi-segregated land uses but still with main streets, built on the expectation that people WOULD drive for most purposes, but still laid out on the old walking principle.

We need to start building more suburbs on that third model. The official plans essentially call for that model. But we don't. Our developers don't propose them. City Hall doesn't insist on them. NIMBY chapters freak out if you propose building or retrofitting neighbourhoods to be more like them. And so Kanatas are all that ever gets proposed, approved, and built.

Good explanation and analysis on the different types of suburbs.
My question is what do you see as the actual advantage of model 3 over model 2? In other words let's say we plop an Overbrook layout between Kanata and Stittsville, or wherever else they are building new neighbourhoods, what advantages does this provide for transit uses etc.?

As for the previous (ACOttawa) comment about property values New Edinburgh. vs Overbrook. I don't think there is any evidence this has anything to do with the layout. New Ed. is expensive because it is next to DFAIT, PM, DG etc. and Overbrook is next to Vanier. As a result New Edinburgh is zoned with Rockcliffe for schools and Overbrook is with Vanier.

Cre47 · #**4726** Posted **Apr 6, 2016, 2:34 PM**

Heard that the New Edinburgh pub will close this weekend, and it will be replaced by a Royal Oak.

A better place for the tallest in Gatineau could have been on the Waterfront, maybe just outside the Zibi limits but the lot under construction could have been another one. For the Guertin area, I hope this back and forth fiasco gets resolved soon, as the area especially along St-Redempteur and on the south side of the Allumettieres is just nasty

Uhuniau · #**4727** Posted **Apr 6, 2016, 3:52 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by YOWetal

Good explanation and analysis on the different types of suburbs.
My question is what do you see as the actual advantage of model 3 over model 2? In other words let's say we plop an Overbrook layout between Kanata and Stittsville, or wherever else they are building new neighbourhoods, what advantages does this provide for transit uses etc.?

It means a neighbourhood is better placed to accommodate market and social demands now, but adapt to different ones in the future.

The suburban design we have been building since the 1950s, and which we continue to build, is not going to be able to adapt to anything without serious pain and upheaval. We are not willing to pay those political or financial costs, so those suburbs are essentially frozen in time. They are Peter Pan neighbourhoods.

Quote:

As for the previous (ACOttawa) comment about property values New Edinburgh. vs Overbrook. I don't think there is any evidence this has anything to do with the layout. New Ed. is expensive because it is next to DFAIT, PM, DG etc. and Overbrook is next to Vanier. As a result New Edinburgh is zoned with Rockcliffe for schools and Overbrook is with Vanier.

Those older neighbourhoods are pricey because they are close to downtown, have houses that were built to nice standards that meet the test of time, and are close to other, non-residential uses.

And yet, the developers insist that there is no market for new residential neighbourhoods that satisfy that final demand. It's baffling. I would love to have had the option of buying a home in New New Edinburgh. (Newer Edinburgh: Now even newedinburghier!). But I didn't. No one in Ottawa is building good new neighbourhoods. Just more suburban garbage. The street layouts and housing styles change from decade to decade as planning and architectural fads come and go, but the basic topology remains the same.

citydwlr · #**4728** Posted **Apr 6, 2016, 4:55 PM**

New shop in the glebe, Stomping Ground, coming soon:

Quote:

RT @joemammacycles: Exciting new things this summer in the #glebe. Welcome stompingground to our block! #Ottawa… https://www.instagram.com/p/BD1EAfUj0UL/

[Source]

From what I can tell, it's taking over 728 Bank St (the old Bank Street Framing store).

Also, it think Anthony's pizzeria opened it's Glebe location a few weeks ago across the street (in the old Naji's restaurant):

Quote:

A big thank you to all of the customers and staff that helped me open #anthonys in #theglebe it… https://www.instagram.com/p/BCn1AuKoqb-/

[Source]

Good to see more businesses moving into the area!

J.OT13 · #**4729** Posted **Apr 11, 2016, 3:46 PM**

Could be seen as another hit to Devecor's LeBreton Flats proposal.

Mathieu Bélanger
Le Droit

Publié le 16 mars 2016 à 21h05 | Mis à jour le 16 mars 2016 à 21h05

Parachutisme intérieur chez Top Karting

L'entreprise Top Karting, située dans le parc industriel Richelieu, dans le secteur Hull, se dotera d'un site de parachutisme intérieur comme il n'y en a très peu en Amérique du Nord, d'ici décembre prochain.

Le conseil municipal de Gatineau a approuvé, mardi, ce projet qui devrait permettre de positionner la ville tout en haut de la liste des endroits les plus prisés par les parachutistes professionnels sur le continent, assure le propriétaire de Top Karting, Jacques Bélanger.

«C'est un projet très structurant qui va nécessiter des investissements de 15 millions $, a affirmé M. Bélanger, en entrevue avec LeDroit. Ça va permettre de créer entre 25 et 30 emplois à Gatineau, soit une masse salariale de 1 million $, uniquement pour ce projet. Le site sera ouvert à longueur d'année et va permettre d'attirer des parachutistes de partout.»

Quasi exclusivité nord-américaine

M. Bélanger soutient que sa nouvelle attraction sera «presque exclusive». Il affirme qu'il n'y a que trois sites de parachutisme intérieur en Amérique du Nord de l'ampleur de celui qui sera construit à Gatineau. «Il y en a un à New York et un autre à Los Angeles du même type, dit-il. C'est beaucoup plus gros que ce qu'on retrouve au SkyVenture, à Laval. C'est une installation du calibre de celles utilisées par les parachutistes professionnels qui font de la compétition avec des figures imposées.»

Les Forces armées canadiennes pourront même louer l'endroit afin de faire de la formation pour leurs membres, ajoute M. Bélanger. «Les gens qui voudront venir vivre cette expérience seront aussi toujours les bienvenus, précise-t-il. Ça va attirer des gens de partout, autant de Gatineau que de l'Ontario et du nord-est des États-Unis. Les sauteurs professionnels pourront venir s'entraîner chez nous. Pour eux, c'est surtout intéressant pendant l'hiver, alors qu'il fait trop froid pour sauter en parachute à l'extérieur.»

Tunnel de verre et vent de 200 km/h

Le site sera aménagé sur le terrain derrière l'édifice qui abrite le Top Karting. «Ce n'est pas très grand, mais c'est surtout la structure qui est impressionnante, explique M. Bélanger. Il s'agit d'un gros tunnel de verre de 16 pieds de diamètre qui fera environ trois étages de haut. À l'intérieur, le vent soufflera à plus de 200 km/h afin de reproduire un vrai saut en parachute à l'extérieur.»

M. Bélanger est convaincu que son produit, jumelé à ce qu'il offre déjà avec sa piste de course intérieure, permettra d'améliorer l'offre touristique de Gatineau. «Ça va attirer des gens qui vont peut-être vouloir rester ici une journée de plus pour venir chez nous, dit-il. Ce sont des gens qui mettent de l'essence dans leur voiture, mangent au restaurant et dorment à l'hôtel. Les gens vont découvrir qu'il y aura une nouvelle destination récréotouristique totalement intégrée à Gatineau.»

http://www.lapresse.ca/le-droit/actualit...achutisme-interieur-chez-top-karting.php

MountainView · #**4730** Posted **Apr 12, 2016, 2:00 AM**

Interesting that there are only two facilities of the caliber that they are proposing in North America. Did Devcore have a proposed parachute facility in their Lebreton proposal?
Nevertheless, good news for the region.

YOWetal · #**4731** Posted **Apr 12, 2016, 9:01 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

It means a neighbourhood is better placed to accommodate market and social demands now, but adapt to different ones in the future.

The suburban design we have been building since the 1950s, and which we continue to build, is not going to be able to adapt to anything without serious pain and upheaval. We are not willing to pay those political or financial costs, so those suburbs are essentially frozen in time. They are Peter Pan neighbourhoods.

Those older neighbourhoods are pricey because they are close to downtown, have houses that were built to nice standards that meet the test of time, and are close to other, non-residential uses.

And yet, the developers insist that there is no market for new residential neighbourhoods that satisfy that final demand. It's baffling. I would love to have had the option of buying a home in New New Edinburgh. (Newer Edinburgh: Now even newedinburghier!). But I didn't. No one in Ottawa is building good new neighbourhoods. Just more suburban garbage. The street layouts and housing styles change from decade to decade as planning and architectural fads come and go, but the basic topology remains the same.

Please elaborate how does this model respond better to social needs and make it more adaptable. I really see it as mostly Esthetic.

As for New New Edinburgh isn't that basically what they are doing in the Oblate lands? Grid pattern. Mixed use main street etc. Put this in Orleans and the cost could be reasonable. Would this be an improvement in your opinion?

zzptichka · #**4732** Posted **Apr 12, 2016, 1:46 PM**

That iFly thing was in Devcore proposal purely for the WOW factor. In reality it's such a minor feature it can be built in any existing mall with some open space area.

Uhuniau · #**4733** Posted **Apr 12, 2016, 2:23 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by YOWetal

Please elaborate how does this model respond better to social needs and make it more adaptable. I really see it as mostly Esthetic.

Grid-pattern streets like Bank, the Somerset-Wellington-Richmond axis, the Rideau-Montreal one, were, in the beginning, mostly residential. They became main streets with numerous non-residential uses - commercial, industrial, institutional, because they could. As main streets, with through traffic, their location, orientation, and the topology of their traffic, made them attractive for people to convert residential uses to other uses. (It didn't hurt that this happened before the era of zoning-fetishism.)

Curlicue subdivision streets simply can't do that. The topology isn't there. The form isn't there. You are never going to have a home on a side cul-de-sac or loop convert to business use - even if layers of zoning and other over-regulation disappeared - in the same way that residential uses on main streets, or even on side blocks just of main streets will do over time.

The difference is not esthetic. It is topological and functional.

Quote:

As for New New Edinburgh isn't that basically what they are doing in the Oblate lands? Grid pattern. Mixed use main street etc.

yes, except that as a modern "dropped-in" development, the modern layers of zoning and other covenants will also serve to freeze this project in time, no matter how traditional the grid.

Quote:

Put this in Orleans and the cost could be reasonable. Would this be an improvement in your opinion?

Yes. Traditional town layouts are always better than post-war curlicue 🞵🞵🞵🞵.