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  #5581  
Old Posted Apr 13, 2016, 8:43 PM
Tlphila Tlphila is offline
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Originally Posted by Milksteak View Post
You beat me to it, all the more reason to move into 1919 I suppose.

For real, smart move on Wawa's part, this is going to be a hopping location.
They must be kicking themselves for losing that Rittenhouse location!
     
     
  #5582  
Old Posted Apr 13, 2016, 8:55 PM
Londonee Londonee is offline
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They must be kicking themselves for losing that Rittenhouse location!
This is a good point.

Does anyone know or understand WaWa's shift BACK into Center City over the last few years? There was a time (like 4 years ago) where they couldn't sell/shutter their Center City businesses fast enough to funnel their money into their Suburban Super Pumper stations - which I found annoying and their excuse at the time (quality control), lame.

Now suddenly they're back in town with a vengeance - brand new stores, high profile locations, renovations - a 180degree shift and rededication to downtown. Younger management that took over perhaps? I'd be curious to understand the reasons behind this reversal.
     
     
  #5583  
Old Posted Apr 13, 2016, 9:05 PM
McBane McBane is offline
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Originally Posted by TempleGuy1000 View Post
Killer update^

May development flow up the El like a river of investment, opportunity, and recovery.
It's interesting how quickly development has flowed from Old City in the 90's up the El's path to Fishtown, Kensington, and beyond. Not sure if development will follow the river (Port Richmond) or continue up the El but it's interesting to watch.

On the other hand, I always felt like development in North and South Philly got to Broad Street last. For example, in South Philly, Bella Vista and Grad Hospital gentrified first while the blocks along and around Broad Street lagged behind. Same pattern further south with Point Breeze to the west and E. Passyunk to the east. Up north in Fairmount, development is finally reaching Broad Street. (I recognize that the Richard Allen homes is blocking development from NoLibs.) Even in these gentrified areas, Broad Street is not the dominant commercial street being flooded by hip restaurants, pubs, etc., it's still fast food restaurants, check cashing joints, and vacant buildings. Indeed when Tashan closed (777 S. Broad building), the location was cited as a major reason even though it sat on the intersection of Bella Vista and Grad Hospital.

It's just interesting how development followed the El but, along the BSL, development has lagged far behind areas immediately surrounding Broad that have long been gentrified.
     
     
  #5584  
Old Posted Apr 13, 2016, 9:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Londonee View Post
This is a good point.

Does anyone know or understand WaWa's shift BACK into Center City over the last few years? There was a time (like 4 years ago) where they couldn't sell/shutter their Center City businesses fast enough to funnel their money into their Suburban Super Pumper stations - which I found annoying and their excuse at the time (quality control), lame.

Now suddenly they're back in town with a vengeance - brand new stores, high profile locations, renovations - a 180degree shift and rededication to downtown. Younger management that took over perhaps? I'd be curious to understand the reasons behind this reversal.
Its not all just reopening...they closed the china town one a couple months back
     
     
  #5585  
Old Posted Apr 13, 2016, 10:44 PM
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Knight Hospitaller Knight Hospitaller is offline
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They must be kicking themselves for losing that Rittenhouse location!
I'll do it for them if they don't to it themselves. I spent a lot of money there.
     
     
  #5586  
Old Posted Apr 13, 2016, 11:24 PM
TempleGuy1000 TempleGuy1000 is offline
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Originally Posted by McBane View Post
On the other hand, I always felt like development in North and South Philly got to Broad Street last. For example, in South Philly, Bella Vista and Grad Hospital gentrified first while the blocks along and around Broad Street lagged behind. Same pattern further south with Point Breeze to the west and E. Passyunk to the east. Up north in Fairmount, development is finally reaching Broad Street. (I recognize that the Richard Allen homes is blocking development from NoLibs.) Even in these gentrified areas, Broad Street is not the dominant commercial street being flooded by hip restaurants, pubs, etc., it's still fast food restaurants, check cashing joints, and vacant buildings. Indeed when Tashan closed (777 S. Broad building), the location was cited as a major reason even though it sat on the intersection of Bella Vista and Grad Hospital.

It's just interesting how development followed the El but, along the BSL, development has lagged far behind areas immediately surrounding Broad that have long been gentrified.

I find it fascinating too. I think one of the reasons why S Broad has never gentrified as quickly as the outer neighborhoods is that there was something to work with in a neighborhood like Bella Vista. Established working class neighborhoods of red gravy. There is enough confidence now in South Philly that we are getting these pie in the sky proposal's at the corners of Washington, SLS is primed to be the tallest building on Broad St, and the numerous other projects. So I am bullish on S Broad. I wouldn't worry about 777 S. Broad having trouble filling their space. Restaurants are really hit or miss, there is a ton of competition around there. Something will go there eventually.

N Broad is a completely different beast. While S Broad/South Philly was always working class, when North Philly was first urbanized, it was the wealthy who lived along N Broad. As Inga covered in an article recently, the mansion district in North Philly sits directly south of Temple's campus and consists of 70 something buildings on the national registry: North Philadelphia Mansion District 1985 Nomination Form . At this moment, there is more investment being put into the street between CC and Temple than there has been in nearly a century. the Gateway to N Broad Projects, the DL, the Blue Horizon, the new Temple facility at the former William Penn High School site, the mural lofts, possible penn state building, and the redevelopment of random buildings along the street are all fueling a major revival in the near future. It helps that there is already some great eats a long the way with Alla Spina, Osteria, SOUTH, Santucci's, and Jimmy G's. Restaurants thrive on N Broad because of the lack of competition in my opinion. N. Broad above Temple is basically the wild west.

So just to come to more of my point, development has indeed been lacking on the BSL but the times are-a-changin'
The real North Broad Miracle I noticed today was that the trees that were planted way way to late last fall are actually beginning to bud! I seriously thought they planted 500 trees and let them all die.
Nothing will ever look as cool as the original N. Broad: http://i.imgur.com/5TftiMR.jpg
     
     
  #5587  
Old Posted Apr 14, 2016, 12:59 AM
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North broad is exciting, from Temple on down, as you said. But I can't help but to feel that the light poles were a big "swing and a miss!", when really we needed a home run.

Looking up the street, when crossing Broad, The poles align in such a way that it looks like a wall, or a fence, running all the way up Broad.
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  #5588  
Old Posted Apr 14, 2016, 1:14 AM
Larry King Larry King is offline
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Originally Posted by Philly-Drew View Post
North broad is exciting, from Temple on down, as you said. But I can't help but to feel that the light poles were a big "swing and a miss!", when really we needed a home run.

Looking up the street, when crossing Broad, The poles align in such a way that it looks like a wall, or a fence, running all the way up Broad.
They're truly horrible. With the amount of hand wringing we do in philly over every little thing, I can't believe these were somehow designed, approved and installed so under the radar.. it's like one day they just showed up and now we have to deal with it for the next 30 years
     
     
  #5589  
Old Posted Apr 14, 2016, 1:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Philly-Drew View Post
North broad is exciting, from Temple on down, as you said. But I can't help but to feel that the light poles were a big "swing and a miss!", when really we needed a home run.

Looking up the street, when crossing Broad, The poles align in such a way that it looks like a wall, or a fence, running all the way up Broad.
The way the light poles line up, they make North Broad feel like a runway. They end up having the wrong impact on traffic, encouraging it to speed. I think the money could have been better spent on some well-groomed medians, maybe even trees down the middle. The poles would be cool if they complemented something else, like landscaped medians. But on their own, they don't really make sense. Especially since they're surrounded by ugly plastic bumpers.

They also could have put four at prominent corners, instead of down the median. Like the torches at Broad and Washington. Yeah, it was a big swing and a miss. I definitely think the right intentions were there, and maybe someday they'll work.
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  #5590  
Old Posted Apr 14, 2016, 1:47 AM
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They're truly horrible. With the amount of hand wringing we do in philly over every little thing, I can't believe these were somehow designed, approved and installed so under the radar.. it's like one day they just showed up and now we have to deal with it for the next 30 years
You are probably correct regarding the time estimate, but damn I hope ithey don't last that long. Once a few get hit by traffic, and a couple others burn out, maybe someone lobbies to take them down.

As you said, they were designed, approved and installed almost totally under the radar. Is there a budget set aside for maintenance on these poles? Who's budget will the maintenance come from?

I wish I knew more about the planning, the artist, and the approval process for them. Who's idea was it anyway?

At least this embarrassment doesn't go past Spring Garden.
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  #5591  
Old Posted Apr 14, 2016, 1:53 AM
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The way the light poles line up, they make North Broad feel like a runway. They end up having the wrong impact on traffic, encouraging it to speed. I think the money could have been better spent on some well-groomed medians, maybe even trees down the middle. The poles would be cool if they complemented something else, like landscaped medians. But on their own, they don't really make sense. Especially since they're surrounded by ugly plastic bumpers.
Exactly, trees and groomed medians. What a novel idea! Much better than the poles. They don't even light up well.
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  #5592  
Old Posted Apr 14, 2016, 1:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Larry King View Post
They're truly horrible. With the amount of hand wringing we do in philly over every little thing, I can't believe these were somehow designed, approved and installed so under the radar.. it's like one day they just showed up and now we have to deal with it for the next 30 years
They were actually pitched a few years before they were installed, and I think Inga even wrote an article about the renderings. An unfavorable one. North Broad isn't as organized as South, and I think the Avenue of the Arts just wanted to get their footprint on it. They looked at the torches at Broad and Washington, and this happened. Hopefully the cityscape will grow around these poles and they'll eventually blend in.
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  #5593  
Old Posted Apr 14, 2016, 1:58 AM
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I certainly recognize that Broad Street is gaining momentum. I'm only saying that the area roughly between 13th and 15th streets has developed more slowly than the neighborhoods directly to the east and west.

Here's one sorry stretch of Broad that's just blocks from $750,000 homes to the east (Bella Vista) and west (Grad Hosp). And as you get further from Broad, closer to the rivers, it only gets nicer. I'm sure there's plenty of explanations.

And I'm not trying to dig Broad Street. It's just an interesting observation.
     
     
  #5594  
Old Posted Apr 14, 2016, 2:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Philly-Drew View Post
Exactly, trees and groomed medians. What a novel idea! Much better than the poles. They don't even light up well.
Agreed! The renderings made them look so much cooler before they were installed, but the renderings were all from the air, and I'm sure they look kinda neat from Billy Penn

Trees and landscaping seems like such an easy fix and I don't know why the city doesn't get behind that. I mean you plant some maple trees, they grow fast, and take care of themselves for the next 30 years. Plant some hostas and daffodils, and they keep expanding on their own. All you have to do is weed the median weekly, which you can get volunteers to do (I'd gladly do it), and you're done.

I don't hate these posts. I think if buildings start growing around them, they'll eventually blend. But I'm not an idiot, I know why they happened. These things were straight up pork spending.
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  #5595  
Old Posted Apr 14, 2016, 2:04 AM
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I certainly recognize that Broad Street is gaining momentum. I'm only saying that the area roughly between 13th and 15th streets has developed more slowly than the neighborhoods directly to the east and west.

Here's one sorry stretch of Broad that's just blocks from $750,000 homes to the east (Bella Vista) and west (Grad Hosp). And as you get further from Broad, closer to the rivers, it only gets nicer. I'm sure there's plenty of explanations.

And I'm not trying to dig Broad Street. It's just an interesting observation.
I've always wondered that myself. In most cities, the boom would be along the transportation lines and main avenues, and then trickle outward. In Philadelphia, Market and Broad have always suffered, at least since the 1920s. I don't get it.
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  #5596  
Old Posted Apr 14, 2016, 2:24 AM
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I've always wondered that myself. In most cities, the boom would be along the transportation lines and main avenues, and then trickle outward. In Philadelphia, Market and Broad have always suffered, at least since the 1920s. I don't get it.
I think it's because of subway access. Most of the city is poor and the poor can easily get to anywhere with subway access.
     
     
  #5597  
Old Posted Apr 14, 2016, 2:34 AM
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I think it's because of subway access. Most of the city is poor and the poor can easily get to anywhere with subway access.
You're probably right. That's unfortunate because subway access should be a commodity. I mean when you look at cities selling rail, cities like Portland end up on top, and all they have is light rail. Meanwhile, SEPTA's massive, and its subway lines aren't anything to crap on.

I think people are slowly wising up to what a diamond-in-the-rough Philadelphia really is. That probably isn't great for me and my cheap Center City rent, but it's good for the city.
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  #5598  
Old Posted Apr 14, 2016, 4:44 AM
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I've always wondered that myself. In most cities, the boom would be along the transportation lines and main avenues, and then trickle outward. In Philadelphia, Market and Broad have always suffered, at least since the 1920s. I don't get it.
The current Building boom in Philaldephia seems very specific to me.

The build happens where real estate is cheap and tax abatements are in place . Thats why imo thousands of units get built in the shadows of the Badlands(Northern Lib + now creeping into Kensington) . Meanwhile higher priced but shoddy stretches of Broad Street + Market East still lag.
     
     
  #5599  
Old Posted Apr 14, 2016, 11:07 AM
Tlphila Tlphila is offline
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The current Building boom in Philaldephia seems very specific to me.

The build happens where real estate is cheap and tax abatements are in place . Thats why imo thousands of units get built in the shadows of the Badlands(Northern Lib + now creeping into Kensington) . Meanwhile higher priced but shoddy stretches of Broad Street + Market East still lag.
This is a great point. I think another aspect is that on Broad + Market you have had these mega lots owned by various different large entities; Often times large parking operators who go with what is profitable at the time. As in when no one gave an f about the city they simply utilized their property as vibrancy killing parking lots / garages... Now that ppl want to live in town again we have Parkway and their ilk starting to develop some of their lots, such as their twin development on North Broad.

About once a week I drive around the frontier areas of gentrification and it is truly shocking to me where the development is going.. I mean the area of Kenzo above Lehigh is in my mind w/o a doubt the place to buy.. Houses are dirt cheap, great bones up there, old warehouses everywhere, the el, easy I95 access. When I was up there yesterday I saw at least 10-15 rowhouse renovations in process. The small flippers and artist are looking north as finding a deal in Fishtown for a small timer is near impossible at this point. Interesting times to be in Philadelphia indeed.
     
     
  #5600  
Old Posted Apr 14, 2016, 12:11 PM
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Somerset station area is a no brainer, though we need more police enforcing the law, Indiana avenue is still an open air drug bazaar west of the el, 24 hours a day it's crazy

I'm picking up building permits for some new houses by Norris square this week, it's all going to happen up there berks to somerset
     
     
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