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  #6821  
Old Posted Apr 13, 2016, 5:02 PM
Liberty Wellsian Liberty Wellsian is offline
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Originally Posted by Future Mayor View Post
While cheaper per mile than streetcar, the service area, in Hatman's scenario above, seems very limited with only 2 stops between Central Station and the Medical Center.

The scenario you posted suggests that IF the average speed could be increased to 15 mph the trip could be made in 15 minutes, while not significant, each stop (two of them) for even one minute takes you back up to 17 minutes, at the 12 mph speed that takes you to 20 minutes. While I understand the desire to cut the travel time from Central Station to Medical Center. Is the cost of Gondola vs existing bus worth the amount of money that would be required to build the Gondola, while not serving any area between Main St and Presidents Circle?
I don't know but I would like to point out that we're still not talking about wait times. With a gondola you never have to wait for a bus to show up and you don't have to worry about missing it. It's ready when you are. Further, if you want to grab a coffee and a sandwich before boarding, no worries, the gondola won't leave without you.
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  #6822  
Old Posted Apr 13, 2016, 5:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Future Mayor View Post
Is the cost of Gondola vs existing bus worth the amount of money that would be required to build the Gondola, while not serving any area between Main St and Presidents Circle?
No. It's not.

But if certain things were to happen, such as the Medical Center continuing to grow, the University of Utah enrollment going up, the congestion around the University/Medical Center gets horrendous, and FrontRunner ridership doubles (due to higher frequency) - then the answer changes to Yes. And honestly, all those things seem likely to happen. So I think it's at least worthy of consideration, or even putting in as a placeholder in long-term planning.
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  #6823  
Old Posted Apr 13, 2016, 11:16 PM
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Great now we all want gondolas that we'll never get. THANKS GUYS!
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  #6824  
Old Posted Apr 14, 2016, 3:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Salty Laker View Post
Great now we all want gondolas that we'll never get. THANKS GUYS!
What are internet forums for, if not blue-sky thinking and vetting idealistic visions of the future?



Speaking of visions for the future, GO transit in Toronto has announced they are very seriously considering electrifying all their commuter rail lines. This would be the second major electrification project for commuter rail this century, along with CalTrans in San Francisco. Toronto is different, though, because their network of commuter rail lines cover 250 miles, and some lines don't see nearly enough train traffic to justify electrification - which, btw, will cost 1.4-1.9 BILLION Canadian Dollars over 10 years. And what does Toronto get for all this? 15-minute commuter rail service potentially all day long, and feel-good-points for being more green. Seriously, those are the two stated reasons for this huge expense.

I bring all this up because I want those two things as well. 15-minute all day FrontRunner service, and feel-good-points for being green. Plus the faster trip times and added reliability that electrification would bring as well. Our commuter rail corridor is 84-ish miles long (89 only if you count Union Pacific Trackage Rights up to Pleasant View). Electrification would certainly cost in the hundred of millions of dollars, but the fuel savings alone would pay that expense off over a long enough time. It's just the question of finding the initial capital.

One system electrifying may be a fluke, but two is a trend. It's pretty clear that diesel-powered/locomotive-pulled commuter trains are not the future of commuter rail, if it is to remain a competitive form of transportation. I really hope UTA is paying attention to these two projects and will follow their lead, sooner rather than later.
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  #6825  
Old Posted Apr 14, 2016, 6:36 PM
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Wasatch Wasteland Wasatch Wasteland is offline
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Originally Posted by Hatman View Post
One system electrifying may be a fluke, but two is a trend. It's pretty clear that diesel-powered/locomotive-pulled commuter trains are not the future of commuter rail, if it is to remain a competitive form of transportation. I really hope UTA is paying attention to these two projects and will follow their lead, sooner rather than later.
3 if you count Denver's electric commuter rail lines.
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  #6826  
Old Posted Apr 14, 2016, 7:27 PM
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Ah, yes. Denver. I still won't count Denver with the other two, though, because Denver's CRT lines are being designed from the outset with electrification. Another residual design element from the original thought that the CRT lines there would all be LRT. What I am more interested in are commuter rail lines that were never designed with electrification in mind, currently operate with diesel locomotives, and are upgrading to something new. Because FrontRunner will need to undergo the same transformation. Yes, it's only 8 years old, but the standard operating procedures, the design criteria, and operating culture that exists now is already pretty entrenched. Electrifying is a major upgrade, much more than stringing a wire over the track; substations need to be built, schedules need to be re-timed, signaling systems need to be upgraded for the new electrical signatures of the trains, new training and safety measures need to be installed, etc etc. But it is totally worth it, and UTA isn't saving any money by waiting on this.

2 more important pieces of transit news I heard on the radio but didn't comment on here until now:

1) UTA scraps plans for ‘distance-based fares’

Honestly I'm surprised by this. They were pushing for it so long. They got the farepay card going, then they started upgrading their ticketing machines to the touch-screen variety so that all the pricing options could be displayed on a screen. I get people's preference for simplicity, but this still really hurts people who would use transit to travel short distances.

Would it make things overly complicated to switch to distance-based fares for FarePay cards only? They're already giving a discount to people using the cards. Why not simply make the discount proportional to the distance traveled, so that people can start trying out a distance based fare for themselves, so that next time there are surveys people can answer with real-life experience instead of hypothetical and scary change?

2) Funding Gap Closed For Jordan River Trail

Follow the link for the picture. I can't link it from my work computer. The picture is of the rendering for the 1,200 foot-long bridge that will be needed to complete the Jordan River Parkway trail between I-80 and North Temple. This is great news. I only hope they leave enough space beside the train trains to allow for future rail expansion, such as FrontRunner towards the airport or Tooele.
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  #6827  
Old Posted Apr 15, 2016, 4:18 PM
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  #6828  
Old Posted Apr 18, 2016, 3:13 PM
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This article in the tribune knows just how to say the right things to make me happy. Electrified and double-tracked FrontRunner. Free or very low-priced transit. Bicycle superhighways. Yes, please.

In the future, Utahns could see free transit, ‘bike superhighways’
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  #6829  
Old Posted Apr 19, 2016, 2:13 AM
Liberty Wellsian Liberty Wellsian is offline
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Originally Posted by Hatman View Post
This article in the tribune knows just how to say the right things to make me happy. Electrified and double-tracked FrontRunner. Free or very low-priced transit. Bicycle superhighways. Yes, please.

In the future, Utahns could see free transit, ‘bike superhighways’
I searched bicycle superhighway to get an idea of what separates this from a Bike path. I stumbled onto the Trampe Cyclocable. These would be awesome in a lot of places in SLC. Next to east high, the evenues, capitol hill, 100 s towards the U. The simplicity of it is brilliant.

Video Link
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  #6830  
Old Posted Apr 25, 2016, 3:47 PM
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So, Denver opened their "A" line to their airport over the weekend, and after seeing some videos of the thing in operation, I'm more impressed than I thought I would be. I had been skeptical that the line was designed with too much light rail influence, for several reasons. Like average speed. FrontRunner travels the 44 miles between SLC and Provo in 1 hour flat, averaging 44 miles per hour. Denver's A line, for all its fancy electric EMU's and double track, takes 37 minutes to go the 23.5 miles. 23.5miles/(37minues/60min/hours) = 38.1 mph. Or the sharp turns between the second and third stations (to get around an intermodal container yard) (see the video below at 6:45 and watch the cars on a regular surface street outrun the electric train).

But I think I will have to add this line to my list of favorites. A few design constraints notwithstanding, the thing is built like a High Speed Rail line, with separate catenary structures, long straightaways, and slab track - which is rails bolted to a concrete pad in the ground. That stuff is crazy expensive, but it is extremely durable and delivers an extremely smooth ride. Watching the train leave the third station, accelerate like only an electric train can, and hit max speed on the smooth slab track (see 10:00 in the video), I can't help but feel admiration and some jealousy.

It will be an amazing day when FrontRunner is finally double-tracked and electrified, and can accelerate as fast and operate as frequently as Denver's system.

Video Link
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  #6831  
Old Posted Apr 25, 2016, 3:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Liberty Wellsian View Post
I searched bicycle superhighway to get an idea of what separates this from a Bike path. I stumbled onto the Trampe Cyclocable. These would be awesome in a lot of places in SLC. Next to east high, the evenues, capitol hill, 100 s towards the U. The simplicity of it is brilliant.
That is a simple but sweet idea. SLC would definitely benefit from a broad implementation of Cyclocables. Do you know if it is free to use, or do you have to pay?
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  #6832  
Old Posted Apr 26, 2016, 2:24 AM
Liberty Wellsian Liberty Wellsian is offline
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That is a simple but sweet idea. SLC would definitely benefit from a broad implementation of Cyclocables. Do you know if it is free to use, or do you have to pay?
I don't know.

If it was done here I would hope that it would be free or at least be free with a transit pass or bike share membership.
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  #6833  
Old Posted Apr 26, 2016, 2:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Hatman View Post
That is a simple but sweet idea. SLC would definitely benefit from a broad implementation of Cyclocables. Do you know if it is free to use, or do you have to pay?
Before it was rebuilt due to new safety regulations in 2013, there was a small fee. Since 2013, it is free.

I would imagine it would depend on the city it is built in and whether they have the funds to provide it as an amenity or would need to charge a fee, or even if it's provided by a private entity, which would most likely charge, unless they could figure out a way to advertise to you while you're riding up the hill.
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  #6834  
Old Posted May 2, 2016, 6:50 PM
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FrontRunner will run on Sunday for the first time ever, thanks to the air show at Hill Air Force Base:

https://www.ksl.com/index.php?nid=151&si...offers-first-sunday-service-for-air-show

I hope UTA will be able to track where people are actually going on that Sunday, to see if they pick up any non-airshow related riders. As I remember it, UTA didn't run TRAX on Sundays until the LDS church paid them to run on general conference weekends. UTA then realized that most of the people using TRAX were not going to conference, gave Sunday service a second look, and decided to keep it permanently.

So if you want Sunday FrontRunner service, be sure you ride FrontRunner June 26 to anywhere but Clearfield!
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  #6835  
Old Posted May 5, 2016, 4:32 AM
Twothirty8 Twothirty8 is offline
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New Zeland is switching to all electric vehicles and 80% of all energy created by renewables. The Kiwis have some great ideas. Why can't Utah do it? Where do we submit this kind of stuff so that government officials will see it?

Govt driving the switch to electric vehicles - Scoop
https://apple.news/
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  #6836  
Old Posted May 5, 2016, 2:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Twothirty8 View Post
New Zeland is switching to all electric vehicles and 80% of all energy created by renewables. The Kiwis have some great ideas. Why can't Utah do it? Where do we submit this kind of stuff so that government officials will see it?

Govt driving the switch to electric vehicles - Scoop
https://apple.news/
Because sometimes government officials get blinded by existing tax revenue, jobs and donations by goal and oil companies, rather than looking at the big picture.
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  #6837  
Old Posted May 5, 2016, 4:15 PM
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Utah does better than other states in terms of environmental awareness. We may be a red state that believes mankind is free to burn and pollute at will, but we do also have extreme local pollution that forces people to deal with the consequences of their air-polluting actions. And sometimes this does lead to action - in a limited but foundational way.

For example, I recently purchased a battery-electric lawn mower from the Utah Department of Environmental Quality, through their CARROT program. (CARROT: Clean Air Retrofit, Replacement, and Off-road Technology)
It was sort of like a Cash-For-Clunkers program for lawnmowers, where you could bring in your old gas-fired lawnmower (and trimmer) and get a battery-electric one for 75% off the purchase price - which in this case, meant the $400 lawn mowers were $100 (with similar discounts for the trimmers).The old gas-fired equipment was then recycled. It was pretty amazing to drive out to the DEQ (near the 1940 W TRAX station) and see all the cars line up to trade in their old lawn mowers. Recycling dumpsters were filled with old, rusty, oily mechanical lawn mowers, and rows and rows of pallets of new, electric lawn mowers stood ready to be delivered. I didn't have to get out of my car; so many volunteers were there to take the old lawn mower out and put the new one in that they made a rule not to get out of your car to help. It was just drive up, show your pre-registration and receipt, let the 'pit crew' change out your lawn mower, and drive away, happy in the knowledge that your lawn will no longer be a source of air pollution.

And this is not trivial; according to their website, a lawnmower run for an hour produces as much pollution as a car does over 160+ miles. Smaller engines burn fuel less efficiently as bigger engines, and so while gas-fired lawnmowers use less fuel, they produce even more pollution. This is the same reason that an electric car that is charged from a coal-fired power plant is still significantly less polluting than a gas-fired car. It's economies of scale, energy style.

The CARROT program does other things as well. Their website has links to things like a school bus replacement program. I think that with the proper funding, this type of thing could easily become like New-Zealand's program, where people trade-in their gas-fired cars (to be recycled) and receive electric ones. The program is in place, it just needs to be expanded.
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  #6838  
Old Posted May 5, 2016, 7:54 PM
Liberty Wellsian Liberty Wellsian is offline
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I have to admit I love to grill. Charcoal
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  #6839  
Old Posted May 5, 2016, 8:28 PM
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Grilling is cool. Owning/driving old cars is cool. Having a real fire in a fireplace for a special occasion is cool.
It's when you become dependent on these types of things for everyday use that it becomes uncool. If everyone cooked with charcoal all the time, that wouldn't be cool. If people were dependent on gas-fired cars or wood-fired stoves... well, many people today are, and we know what the results are.
I'm totally for freedom and choice and all that, but I feel very strongly that the default option should be a non-polluting option.
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  #6840  
Old Posted May 5, 2016, 9:38 PM
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GreenBike just opened a new station at Whole Foods at Trolley Square. That is now 33 stations and 300 bikes. Next stop in that direction, IMO, 9th & 9th and Liberty Park.

I like that they are at Trolley now, but I think they need another station of two, west of Trolley. The two closest stations are at the Public Safety Building and one at 5th E and 3rd S. Maybe somewhere around Smiths Market place, west side, or somewhere else on 5th or 6th between 3rd E and 5th E.

https://greenbikeslc.org/
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