New Downtown Calgary Arena

[Bigtime]

Originally Posted by artvandelay

I don't have much interest in living in a city with second rate facilities. Pretty soon we will have the worst football and hockey arenas in the country when we can afford to have world class venues. Both McMahon and the Saddledome are in need of replacement in the short term.

"World Class"

Drink!

[Innersoul1]

Originally Posted by Count Chocula

The field house should be where it was originally planned to be, Foothills Athletic Park. Or are we also planning to make McMahon into a heritage site as well? Stampede grounds are a waste of prime real estate and calgaryNEXT will follow suit. Yes, lets have 4 inner city stadiums, supporting one damned hockey franchise, and an even more pathetic Canadian football team. I love sports, but Calgary isn't the best city to enjoy them. Lets stop trying so hard to force Hockey and Football down peoples throats, but instead provide the necessary foundation so that we can develop the youth into whatever type of athlete they want to be. IMO keep the Flames where they are, keep McMahon where it is, build a Field House somewhere, to promote Rugby, Soccer, and Track/Field year round!!

Bold for a first post man. Welcome to the forum. Let's look beyond the Flames, Stampeders and concerts and just consider the idea of quality stadia and what that attracts. Does the Saddledome do its job? Yes it does. However, we need to look forward thinking at the other events that an arena supports, curling, junior hockey, lacrosse. All worthy sports that are well supported in this city.

I think that there is a lot to be said for building a quality venue that bucks the 20 year trend of stadia. If we can overbuild the international terminal at the airport to an extent we should be able to do the same with stadia. What I mean by this is a stadia that is build and situated with the future in mind. Where there is space and rough plans to expand in the future. While the Saddledome is a fantastic design it's shape and engineering mean that expanding the concourse and back of house services are next to impossible because they won't fit within the building without changing its shape.

I don't think that football and hockey are being shoved down any throats. They are popular and are supported by numerous fans. Building a third tier venue like a field house with hopes of attracting soccer, rugby and track and field events of any significance is a pipe dream. If we go with the suggestion that the field house should stay of Foothills then just keep it basic.

What we do need is an actual replacement for McMahon that has temporary field markings. That will attract actual sporting events that benefit the larger community. When was the last time that Calgary actually hosted a meaningful soccer or rugby game? We fail in that department due to a distinct lack of facilities.

It looks like we are going down the path to failed semi-pro soccer in this city with the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Premier_League. I remember watching the Calgary Kickers at Mewata back in the day. It would be great to even see the national team play her one day!

[Riise]

Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker

So when it is 10 or 20 acts bypassing Calgary instead of 3 or 4, could we agree the Saddledome is a bit outmoded? Even without the Flames there would be pressure to replace it. From a different crowd, but still.

The Dome's structural incompatibility, which is due to its design rather than age, is a better argument than other cities have shinier buildings.

[Luk_o]

Originally Posted by Count Chocula

The field house should be where it was originally planned to be, Foothills Athletic Park. Or are we also planning to make McMahon into a heritage site as well? Stampede grounds are a waste of prime real estate and calgaryNEXT will follow suit. Yes, lets have 4 inner city stadiums, supporting one damned hockey franchise, and an even more pathetic Canadian football team. I love sports, but Calgary isn't the best city to enjoy them. Lets stop trying so hard to force Hockey and Football down peoples throats, but instead provide the necessary foundation so that we can develop the youth into whatever type of athlete they want to be. IMO keep the Flames where they are, keep McMahon where it is, build a Field House somewhere, to promote Rugby, Soccer, and Track/Field year round!!

- 'Calgary isn't the best city to enjoy sports', so as a proclaimed sports fan you have no interest to improve the facilities for teams that a ton of people in this city do love.

- Nobody is even remotely lobbying to have McMahon labeled as a heritage site, and the Saddledome will be re-purposed and most likely torn down the road. There will be 1 arena and 1 stadium downtown.

- Nobody is forcing hockey and football down people's throats. Calm down.

- How are the Stamps a pathetic CFL team? Do you just mean that the CFL itself is pathetic and your not a fan?

Great first post...Way to blow things out of proportion, discredit two historic sports franchises that mean a lot to this city and focus on what you want, not what most sports fans in this city want.

[fusili]

Originally Posted by Luk_o

- 'Calgary isn't the best city to enjoy sports', so as a proclaimed sports fan you have no interest to improve the facilities for teams that a ton of people in this city do love. Sure, but let those teams pay for it. Lots of people also like movies. We aren't being asked to upgrade the theatres at Crowfoot.

- Nobody is forcing hockey and football down people's throats. Calm down. Just asking taxpayers to pay for it.
.

To play devil's advocate, see responses in bold.

[MichaelS]

Originally Posted by artvandelay

I don't have much interest in living in a city with second rate facilities. Pretty soon we will have the worst football and hockey arenas in the country when we can afford to have world class venues. Both McMahon and the Saddledome are in need of replacement in the short term.

When you say "we", who do you mean? Do you mean the provincial government about to post a record deficit? How about the federal one in a similar situation (unsure if it is record setting)? Or how about the municipal government with a very long list of unfunded infrastructure projects?

Or, do you mean the owners of the Flames?

[MalcolmTucker]

Harper's top year of deficit was more or less double this year's federal government deficit.

[odogfo]

I think I heard April 26

[odogfo]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

When is the contamination report due out for West Village? I thought I remember hearing March or April...

I think I heard April 26

[MichaelS]

Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker

Harper's top year of deficit was more or less double this year's federal government deficit.

Really? Yikes. Does anybody ever plan to pay any of this back? If not, and nobody thinks that is a problem, maybe another billion for this project is no big deal

[suburbia]

Originally Posted by Riise

The Dome's structural incompatibility, which is due to its design rather than age, is a better argument than other cities have shinier buildings.

How does that impact hockey? Because it is the hockey that is being put out in front in the pitch.

No matter how this ends, I think the preferential lease for these types of buildings should be changed, so that the massive dollars made on events are more equitably distributed. Currently the preferential lease, under the guise of supporting hockey, is used so that massive concert and event profits are hoarded by the "entertainment group".

[MalcolmTucker]

Originally Posted by MichaelS

Really? Yikes. Does anybody ever plan to pay any of this back? If not, and nobody thinks that is a problem, maybe another billion for this project is no big deal

Government debt isn't like household debt. It is a problem when you have too little or too much!

The GreenLine LRT will be 100% borrowed. WestLRT was paid for out of savings. The LRT extension to 162nd Ave was paid for out of in year cash flow.

Does it make a difference which is used? Not really.

As long as you are avoiding borrowing for operating costs on a cycle basis you're in the clear as you can always stop capital spending, and if you built useful things you can then sell them if you are truly screwed.

[MalcolmTucker]

Originally Posted by suburbia

How does that impact hockey? Because it is the hockey that is being put out in front in the pitch.

No matter how this ends, I think the preferential lease for these types of buildings should be changed, so that the massive dollars made on events are more equitably distributed. Currently the preferential lease, under the guise of supporting hockey, is used so that massive concert and event profits are hoarded by the "entertainment group".

The assumption that these facilities anywhere (save for the O2, Madison Square Garden, and the Air Canada Centre) make enough money to cover their capital cost is dubious at best.

[suburbia]

Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker

The assumption that these facilities anywhere (save for the O2, Madison Square Garden, and the Air Canada Centre) make enough money to cover their capital cost is dubious at best.

Oh I agree with that, but the city should be getting more rent for the Saddledome as is given how much the Flames make off it. The ownership make more from concerts / events then the Flames games, but the lease is based just on the Flames games.

[sammyd]

Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker

Harper's top year of deficit was more or less double this year's federal government deficit.

what's your point? When did it occur? During the worst recession since the Great Depression. You may have noticed all governments worldwide went to stimulus spending to avoid catastrophe? And who came out best and first? Take this to another thread.

[dazzlingdave88]

Originally Posted by sammyd

what's your point? When did it occur? During the worst recession since the Great Depression. You may have noticed all governments worldwide went to stimulus spending to avoid catastrophe? And who came out best and first? Take this to another thread.

You need to calm down. Your bias is showing.

[Count Chocula]

Please see bold below.

Originally Posted by Luk_o

- 'Calgary isn't the best city to enjoy sports', so as a proclaimed sports fan you have no interest to improve the facilities for teams that a ton of people in this city do love.

Calgary isn't the best city to enjoy spectating sports when they only cater to hockey and football fans. Edmonton hosted WOMENS FIFA 2015 and World Track and Field championships in 2001. If you build it, they will come

- Nobody is even remotely lobbying to have McMahon labeled as a heritage site, and the Saddledome will be re-purposed and most likely torn down the road. There will be 1 arena and 1 stadium downtown.

That was a joke since the saddledome has aquired heritage status

- Nobody is forcing hockey and football down people's throats. Calm down.

Actually they definitely are by not tending their efforts to other sports. Soccer has always had a higher enrollment for kids than hockey, in the past 15 years. Instead of nurturing talent, we discard the possibilities.

- How are the Stamps a pathetic CFL team? Do you just mean that the CFL itself is pathetic and your not a fan?

Let be honest, the CFL is more of an American influenced phenomenon, than a recognized global sports federation. 60-70% of the players are from the States. No one will outmatch the States in football in any way, shape or form. Canada, as whole has a better chance at rugby on a global scale. Cheering for a winning team globally is far more cohesive than the divisive nature of the CFL.

Great first post...Way to blow things out of proportion, discredit two historic sports franchises that mean a lot to this city and focus on what you want, not what most sports fans in this city want.

This city is young, and is being pulled in two directions. For one I would like it to be recognized on a world-scale as a vibrant, bustling, inclusive, sustainable municipality. For that to happen we need to be open minded. Calgarians tend to live in their own universe, moreso now than ever.

[DizzyEdge]

Just curious if Calgary is still a young city, it's only 7 years younger than the confederation of Canada.

[MalcolmTucker]

Originally Posted by sammyd

what's your point? When did it occur? During the worst recession since the Great Depression. You may have noticed all governments worldwide went to stimulus spending to avoid catastrophe? And who came out best and first? Take this to another thread.

Hey, it was someone else who asked a question about the deficits at different levels of government. Also interesting: the provincial deficit sounds like it won't be a record either. We will know tomorrow for sure.

But yeah, whether private, public, or a mix, this thing will be debt financed. A government or corporation financing something isn't a moral failing or dangerous.

[CalgaryAlex]

Originally Posted by Count Chocula

Please see bold below.

So you are living in a dream world in which soccer and rugby are hugely popular spectator sports, which have been largely neglected by a million screaming fans in Calgary simply because the Flames/Stampeders organizations (if not them, then what Fifth Column is currently shoving hockey and football down our throats?) didn't create, fund and promote world-class teams that play in... what leagues? The MLS, where every current team plays in a city with at least double the metro population of Calgary?

If Calgary had the critical mass necessary to make these two sports profitable, then we would already have profitable teams playing here. You're really making a fuss about nothing, it seems to me.