PHILADELPHIA | Highrise Development Thread IX

[jjv007]

Originally Posted by 1487

PA tax burden. There is a lot of talk about how bad things are here. Here are some facts that lead me to believe taxation isn't the primary reason for slow job growth in this state.

http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/growls/Pas-tax-burden----meh.html

Tell that to the large and small businesses that are leaving or considering leaving the state for locales they find more attractive business-wise. Yes, taxes are not the whole picture but they are a significant part.

[TempleGuy1000]

Originally Posted by jjv007

Tell that to the large and small businesses that are leaving or considering leaving the state for locales they find more attractive business-wise. Yes, taxes are not the whole picture but they are a significant part.

Yeah the Wallet Hub study isn't a reflection on business taxes. Though it does shed some light on the fact that if the state's fiscal picture really is that awful then raising certain taxes to fix the "structural deficit" might not be a bad idea.


Business tax wise: http://taxfoundation.org/article/2016-state-business-tax-climate-index

You can see in terms of the corprate tax rate we sit at a big ole 47 out of 50. So take for example NC. Professional Job growth is exploding there. They are 30th on Wallet E Hub's Study while we are 25th. But according to the Tax Foundation, they have the 7th lowest corporate tax rate, while we are 47th.

1487 is right though, it isn't all about taxes. People with money having less children combined with negative domestic migration and an overall aging population just puts us in a position where super sized growth isn't in our deck of cards.

Though it seems like every week some different group is rolling out their grand plan. This week it is the Greater Philadelphia Export Plan to be unveiled on Wednesday:

http://www.bizjournals.com/philadelphia/...league-world-trade-center-to-unveil.html
http://www.philly.com/philly/business/20...hat_ails_local_economy__study_urges.html

[summersm343]

Originally Posted by 1487

PA tax burden. There is a lot of talk about how bad things are here. Here are some facts that lead me to believe taxation isn't the primary reason for slow job growth in this state.

http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/growls/Pas-tax-burden----meh.html

Uh, this is residential and personal taxes. This has nothing to do with business taxes. PA and Philly have some of the worst business tax structures in the country, which is why job growth here is slow... not because of residential/property/personal taxes.

[Frontst17]

If you guys get bored...

http://datausa.io/profile/geo/philadelphia-pa/

[jjv007]

Originally Posted by summersm343

Uh, this is residential and personal taxes. This has nothing to do with business taxes. PA and Philly have some of the worst business tax structures in the country, which is why job growth here is slow... not because of residential/property/personal taxes.

Exactly, there's a distinct difference and comparing the two isn't really practically applicable.

[hammersklavier]

Originally Posted by 1487

PA tax burden. There is a lot of talk about how bad things are here. Here are some facts that lead me to believe taxation isn't the primary reason for slow job growth in this state.

http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/growls/Pas-tax-burden----meh.html

The problem is that seems to be an apples to oranges comparison. It's specifically the business tax burden people talk about -- especially the business tax burden in Philadelphia. Yes, it's all well and good we're dead average statewide for what appear to be individual taxes (and have the region's second-lowest individual tax burden, apparently), but what does that say about the wage tax or gross receipts or U&O? Nada.

[Philly-Drew]

Originally Posted by Frontst17

If you guys get bored...

http://datausa.io/profile/geo/philadelphia-pa/

Some interesting information there, enough to start a completely new thread. Thanks for posting.

Summer's and others, regarding the taxes, thanks for clarifying. You beat me to it.

[Milksteak]

Originally Posted by Frontst17

If you guys get bored...

http://datausa.io/profile/geo/philadelphia-pa/

This is awesome, very interesting that professional/scientific/tech services are only 6.5% of the industry share, tied with manufacturing.

Also, the language graph is very cool...who knew we had 205 Hmong speakers (even if the margin of error is 273 )

[1487]

Originally Posted by summersm343

Uh, this is residential and personal taxes. This has nothing to do with business taxes. PA and Philly have some of the worst business tax structures in the country, which is why job growth here is slow... not because of residential/property/personal taxes.

It's still a measure of relative tax burdens between the states.

[1487]

Originally Posted by hammersklavier

The problem is that seems to be an apples to oranges comparison. It's specifically the business tax burden people talk about -- especially the business tax burden in Philadelphia. Yes, it's all well and good we're dead average statewide for what appear to be individual taxes (and have the region's second-lowest individual tax burden, apparently), but what does that say about the wage tax or gross receipts or U&O? Nada.

Its a state by state comparison. Obviously it's not about Philly vs PA. I am aware of the difference between Philadelphia and PA. I was only providing the info that was covered in the link. PA taxes have been mentioned in these forums as onerous and a major reason for PA's population/job growth issues. According to THIS ranking PA is midpack and better than it's neighbors in terms of tax burden.

[McBane]

Philadelphia's resident population is growing. Despite being in a state with stagnate population growth. Residential growth and taxes are not the issue. We need jobs and better business tax structure in the city and the state.

[3rd&Brown]

Originally Posted by jjv007

Exactly, there's a distinct difference and comparing the two isn't really practically applicable.

It's a huge problem and unfortunately (at least in this regard), people are too self-interested to understand that sometimes more personal taxation can net net actually help with job growth. If the mix of taxes in Pennsylvania were different and a bit more oriented toward taxing say, property, and less toward taxing businesses (and to a lesser extent, income) it would go a long long way toward improving our competitiveness.

I say this as I type on my keyboard from NYC. I had to leave 3 years ago because I could not find a job in Philadelphia after searching for 1.5 years.

[UrbanRevival]

A nice write-up from ULI about recent residential trends in Philly. Also a few plugs about Dranoff's projects, including SLS:

At Home in Philadelphia’s Center City | By Bendix Anderson | April 11, 2016

Builders are competing to create the tallest residential structure in Philadelphia.

The condominiums and hotel rooms at the SLS Lux Philadelphia Hotel and Residences will loom 556 feet (169 m) over the Center City neighborhood when it finally opens in 2017.

“It will be an exclamation point over downtown,” says Carl Dranoff, president of Dranoff Properties, the lead developer for the 42-story tower.

...

http://urbanland.uli.org/industry-sectors/residential/home-philadelphias-center-city/

[Outta here]

Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown

It's a huge problem and unfortunately (at least in this regard), people are too self-interested to understand that sometimes more personal taxation can net net actually help with job growth. If the mix of taxes in Pennsylvania were different and a bit more oriented toward taxing say, property, and less toward taxing businesses (and to a lesser extent, income) it would go a long long way toward improving our competitiveness.

I say this as I type on my keyboard from NYC. I had to leave 3 years ago because I could not find a job in Philadelphia after searching for 1.5 years.

..... ..... I say this as I type on my keyboard from South Jersey ....

[hammersklavier]

Originally Posted by 1487

Its a state by state comparison. Obviously it's not about Philly vs PA. I am aware of the difference between Philadelphia and PA. I was only providing the info that was covered in the link. PA taxes have been mentioned in these forums as onerous and a major reason for PA's population/job growth issues. According to THIS ranking PA is midpack and better than it's neighbors in terms of tax burden.

You're continuing to miss the point. It's measuring SOMETHING COMPLETELY DIFFERENT than what the main issue is. It's fine that our personal tax burdens are perfectly average nationwide ... that tells us nothing about business taxes, much like how the mollusks tell us nothing about pinecones.

[llamaorama]

It's easy to imagine a scenario where increasing personal taxes(property, sales, income/wages) becomes politically difficult and the city turns to corporate and business taxes to get revenue.

But this seems like a disaster in the making because it betrays what a city fundamentally is. A healthy city is a hive of entrepreneurial and institutional activity big enough to create a energetic culture that attracts people. Therefore heavily taxing business and other activities is counterproductive and destroys the magical synergy that makes a city buzz, but taxing people that really want to be in the city is very effective, and taxing property that is permanently located in the city is even more effective.

And, since personal taxes can be made very progressive, it doesn't have to negatively impact the city's most vulnerable populations. Who, despite what gentrification critics claim, would probably be better off if the city and public schools weren't flat broke and could do more to help. For instance, essential goods like bread or milk would be sales tax exempt, property tax breaks for landlords who own affordable housing, and of course any income or wage tax would be in marginal brackets.

[3rd&Brown]

Originally Posted by llamaorama

It's easy to imagine a scenario where increasing personal taxes(property, sales, income/wages) becomes politically difficult and the city turns to corporate and business taxes to get revenue.

But this seems like a disaster in the making because it betrays what a city fundamentally is. A healthy city is a hive of entrepreneurial and institutional activity big enough to create a energetic culture that attracts people. Therefore heavily taxing business and other activities is counterproductive and destroys the magical synergy that makes a city buzz, but taxing people that really want to be in the city is very effective, and taxing property that is permanently located in the city is even more effective.

And, since personal taxes can be made very progressive, it doesn't have to negatively impact the city's most vulnerable populations. Who, despite what gentrification critics claim, would probably be better off if the city and public schools weren't flat broke and could do more to help. For instance, essential goods like bread or milk would be sales tax exempt, property tax breaks for landlords who own affordable housing, and of course any income or wage tax would be in marginal brackets.

This is not hypothetical. That is the point we're making. This is what the state of Pennsylvania has been doing for years, hence it's lack of competitiveness when it comes to business growth.

[Plokoon11]

We should all play some good old fashioned Sim City and try these tax experiments.

[summersm343]

Economy League, World Trade Center unveil export plan to boost Phila. jobs, revenue

Increasing the Greater Philadelphia region's export intensity could bring billions of dollars in new economic activity and nearly 40,000 additional jobs to the region, which has persistently lagged in economic growth, according to a new plan devised by business leaders in the region.

Philadelphia had the slowest employment growth between 2010 and 2015, making it the slowest-growing economy among the 10 largest U.S. metropolitan areas, according a report unveiled Wednesday by the Economy League and the World Trade Center of Greater Philadelphia, citing data from the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics.

"This stubbornly sluggish growth has kept Greater Philadelphia from realizing its greatest potential and left its communities with fewer resources to ensure prosperity and opportunity for all," according to the plan.

The export plan is a year-long effort led by the Economy League and the World Trade Center, which brought together economic development and trade experts in the region to develop a "customized strategy for export-led growth."

“We have grown [employment since 2010],” Sevin said, “but we’re growing at a slower rate than other East Coast areas, like Boston and New York. That’s why this is so urgent.”

The plan found that increasing the Philadelphia region's export intensity "to the average for the 100 largest U.S. metros" would translate to $6.3 billion in new economic activity annually and create an additional 35,000 jobs.

http://www.bizjournals.com/philadelphia/...ue-world-trade-center-export-philly.html

[summersm343]

GSI Health moves to Center City

GSI Health, maker of cloud-based patient-tracking platform GSIHealthCoordinator, plans to open its new offices at BNY Mellon Center -- 1735 Market St. -- on Thursday, chief executive LeRoy Jones says in a statement.

Jones said the new offices will be a base for GSI's "distributed teams to build sophisticated, tightly integrated software systems." The company, previously based in the city's Chestnut Hill section, says it employs 50, and plans to add 25 more this year.

Read more at http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/inq-p...-to-Center-City.html#YCZsmoHZtyo3OBO6.99