Stadiums and Arenas of Canada part 2

[Bluenote]

Originally Posted by JHikka

I don't think you completely understand the concept of how soccer stadiums can be built, and built, and added on to over time. BMO's lifespan is essentially endless if you're willing to renovate and update and add structures over time. How much space room does Regina and Winnipeg have in this regard?

As well, those stadiums are the only stadiums of reasonable size in those cities. Toronto has BMO, Rogers, Varsity, Uniprix, plus more in the GTA....BMO is a constant work in progress, whereas once Regina and Winnipeg are built they're built and that's about it.

So what would you like BMO to be? Bigger? If size is your thing I should make a point to note that the world's largest stadium by capacity is in North Korea.

IGF can be expanded quite a bit. Both end zones are hardly built yet. Mosaic has one end zone completely free.

Our old Winnipeg stadium was just like your BMO. Lots of additions. Eventually life caught up with it and now it's in the landfill where it belongs. BMO isn't going to be around in 50 years. You seem to think they will just keep adding to it forever. They won't. Just like Winnipeg Stadium wasn't added anymore. Same as mosaic 1.0.

And IGF is even built to have a roof. It's built right into the existing structure. Not sure about mosaic. But I doubt BMO has that option.

[king10]

Originally Posted by Bluenote

Your welcome.
What amazes me is where it's built n, in one of the most densely populated parts of Canada and all they can muster is this. They can build Skydome and Reno Maple Leaf gardens and yet they build this.
How can little Regina and Winnipeg build stellar stadiums with 1/10 the population.

because Ontario is in a fck ton of debt and doesn't want to throw money at a stadium for private use. and Toronto's transportation infrastructure is sorely lacking and billions need to be spent on that before a stadium for private use

also who are you referring to as "they"... public funds were put into skydome and look how much it sold for 15 years later. maybe there in is your answer, throwing millions at a public stadium is a shitty investment

MLG was reno'd with private funds

"they" are different people. even BMO was originally constructed with public funds then reno's were done with private funds.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Bluenote

IGF can be expanded quite a bit. Both end zones are hardly built yet. Mosaic has one end zone completely free.

Our old Winnipeg stadium was just like your BMO. Lots of additions. Eventually life caught up with it and now it's in the landfill where it belongs. BMO isn't going to be around in 50 years. You seem to think they will just keep adding to it forever. They won't. Just like Winnipeg Stadium wasn't added anymore. Same as mosaic 1.0.

I was thinking the same thing. IGF and NMS definitely have room for what I'd regard as easy expansion ("easy" in the sense that all you're doing is filling in a gap with more seating, with no significant amounts of demolition or reconstruction of existing parts of the stadium). I'd imagine that both could go from around 33,000 to around 40,000 without much trouble.

Beyond that you'd have to go into a larger scale of construction, but I'm not sure how that would be any different than what mistercorporate posted re: Anfield.

And yes, the old stadiums in Winnipeg and Regina are basically facilities that started small and expanded over time. The end result was a crappy mishmash of ancient old facilities with slightly newer and nicer ones plopped on top. It wasn't a nice combination. Mind you, I'm sure BMO will be better maintained than the old Winnipeg and Regina parks were, but there is something to be said for doing it properly from the very start.

All that said, BMO is fine for now, for the purpose it serves. But I don't see it being a long-term venue for either of its tenants.

[caltrane74]

How long is long-term? BMO field 10 years ago was a much smaller space and now it is large enough to go another 10 years, with probably another minor tweak on the north end of the stadium it will still be more than adequate for TFC. As for the Argos long term, they will be just hoping not to get kicked out of another stadium or end up playing their games at Central Tech when the lease is up.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by caltrane74

How long is long-term? BMO field 10 years ago was a much smaller space and now it is large enough to go another 10 years, with probably another minor tweak on the north end of the stadium. The Argos long term, will be just hoping not to get kicked out of another stadium or end up playing their games at Central Tech.

If TFC grows significantly, I could see them building a new stadium say around 15-20 years out rather than adding more to the BMO frankenstadium.

If the Argos ownership has any brains (which between Bell and Tanenbaum I'd guess they most certainly do), I'm sure they have already begun the first steps toward building their own stadium, perhaps a bit farther out in suburbia where their fanbase is apparently concentrated.

[caltrane74]

i wish the Argos would move to Newmarket.....now.

[mistercorporate]

Originally Posted by esquire

If TFC grows significantly, I could see them building a new stadium say around 15-20 years out rather than adding more to the BMO frankenstadium.

If the Argos ownership has any brains (which between Bell and Tanenbaum I'd guess they most certainly do), I'm sure they have already begun the first steps toward building their own stadium, perhaps a bit farther out in suburbia where their fanbase is apparently concentrated.

I'm not sure if any of you have seen the new York University stadium built for the Pan Am Games. It's quite large and attractive and there's so much space around it to build new stands. The only issue i could see is parking, but then it's next to a GO bus terminal and two subway stations are being built near it. If the Argos grow their attendance over the years then fine, but if not, it may make sense to invest in building a stand or two to make York a 20-25,000 seat stadium.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by caltrane74

i wish the Argos would move to Newmarket.....now.

And lose the only bright light in your city of sports losers?

[caltrane74]

Originally Posted by esquire

And lose the only bright light in your city of sports losers?

How can they be a bright light when nobody cares about them? The Raptors and the Jays are where it's at in Toronto these days bud. Nobody cares about the Argos unless they live in the boonies..

[esquire]

Originally Posted by mistercorporate

I'm not sure if any of you have seen the new York University stadium built for the Pan Am Games. It's quite large and attractive and there's so much space around it to build new stands. The only issue i could see is parking, but then it's next to a GO bus terminal and two subway stations are being built near it. If the Argos grow their attendance over the years then fine, but if not, it may make sense to invest in building a stand or two to make York a 20-25,000 seat stadium.

Universities in Canada don't seem to have much of an interest in teaming with pro sports organizations... even the ones that do host CFL teams on their campuses (U of C, U of M, McGill) seem reluctant at best.

U of M and the Blue Bombers were kind of forced into a marriage by government, and this is in a place where the CFL carries a lot of weight. I doubt York could or would really be pushed in that direction even though it would seem to make sense and could be mutually beneficial. I'm not sure why the Universities are so down on it.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by caltrane74

How can they be a bright light when nobody cares about them? The Raptors and the Jays are where it's at in Toronto these days bud. Nobody cares about the Argos unless they live in the boonies..

You are hilarious. Shouldn't you be lining up at a OVO pop-up store somewhere?

[mistercorporate]

Originally Posted by caltrane74

How can they be a bright light when nobody cares about them? The Raptors and the Jays are where it's at in Toronto these days bud. Nobody cares about the Argos unless they live in the boonies..

While I agree with you that in the city itself, much of the sports support is for the Jays and Raptors, they along with the Leafs and TFC also rely on strong small town support/attendance. The Leafs, Jays, Raptors and TFC behave like Southern Ontario teams more than anything. I've met people from remote Northern Ontario who travel down for the occasional Raptors game and many TFC regulars also come from Barrie, St. Catharines and Waterloo. To minimize their contribution would be disrespectful, even if the Argos are the only team with predominantly out of town support (Oshawa, Oakville, Newmarket, etc.).

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by mistercorporate

I agree, 3 sides look bad. This stadium makes more sense when you consider it as a stadium designed to be easily and affordably expanded with only one side completed (the East stand). If they grow their properties enough that they get 30,000 seats filled 20 times a year even with jacked up prices, they will begin investing on a 40,000 expansion at minimum cost. The flexible "bones" they've built for the roof structures and the open North stands leaves room for affordable expansion even upto 60,000 seats in the distant future (by some estimates). This way MLSE can expand and repair as needed over several decades without depending on government handouts. This stadium has the longterm potential to become their biggest cash cow.

I admit that BMO looks really weird in those photos. But the renders I've seen of inside the stadium itself look good. That's what counts - not the view when you're zooming by on the Gardiner.

[elly63]

Originally Posted by esquire

I doubt York could or would really be pushed in that direction even though it would seem to make sense and could be mutually beneficial. I'm not sure why the Universities are so down on it.

Argos, CSA lock up stadium deal with York
Western University The Gazette October 20, 2004

[esquire]

Originally Posted by elly63

Argos, CSA lock up stadium deal with York
Western University The Gazette October 20, 2004

I didn't say there weren't any exceptions. But by and large the universities don't seem eager to get into stadium deals with pro teams.

What kind of a reception do you think the Argos would get if they went back to York to try and team up on a stadium expansion project along the lines of what mistercorporate suggested? Probably not all that warm would be my guess.

[mistercorporate]

Originally Posted by esquire

I didn't say there weren't any exceptions. But by and large the universities don't seem eager to get into stadium deals with pro teams.

What kind of a reception do you think the Argos would get if they went back to York to try and team up on a stadium expansion project along the lines of what mistercorporate suggested? Probably not all that warm would be my guess.

If they put a substantial deposit down in advance and sign the necessary contracts, then all will likely be forgotten. York is a very money-minded university, I doubt emotions and ego will come into play, especially considering the new revenue from underutilized weekend parking and pub/restaurant/retail store income (some of which are managed by the university). Their arrangement with Tennis Canada with the Rexall Center has been mutually beneficial. Besides, both parties would have completely new management teams. This is all speculative but there's nothing to be lost by trying.

[king10]

Originally Posted by mistercorporate

I'm not sure if any of you have seen the new York University stadium built for the Pan Am Games. It's quite large and attractive and there's so much space around it to build new stands. The only issue i could see is parking, but then it's next to a GO bus terminal and two subway stations are being built near it. If the Argos grow their attendance over the years then fine, but if not, it may make sense to invest in building a stand or two to make York a 20-25,000 seat stadium.

other issue is it has a running track which is crap for sight lines

[esquire]

Nothing new here, I just liked this pic of IGF during last season's Grey Cup from a news story about the Bombers' annual report being released:


Source: winnipegfreepress.com

[Bluenote]

How much has BMO cost from day one. Not just this Reno all of them. I bet it's pretty damn close to IGFs price. So when you look at it that way it's a better idea to just build fresh and not create another Winnipeg Stadium.
And don't forget IGF had stupid cost over runs. So it could be had for even cheaper I would guess in the GTa area. Plus construction costs would I assume be cheaper as a longer season for building ?

[Bluenote]

Originally Posted by esquire

Nothing new here, I just liked this pic of IGF during last season's Grey Cup from a news story about the Bombers' annual report being released:


Source: winnipegfreepress.com

I just love this stadium. It just looks so big league. Still my favourite in all the cfl.