Stadiums and Arenas of Canada part 2

[elly63]

Originally Posted by cjones2451

I think it depends on attendance this year for both TFC and the Argos. If it is pushing capacity then it is possible, but I think they will take a year off due to the Grey Cup / Winter Classic. I don't think they want TFC opening on the road for a 3rd year in a row due to construction.

Agree

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Bluenote

Either way glad they are saving the old barn. It actually has life left unlike our old barn in Winnipeg which was a disaster even in 1974 lol

True. Winnipeg Arena was one of the very last of the MLG style cruciform layout hockey arenas built in North America... within 10 years it was all round seating bowl styles. Winnipeg Arena wasn't all that well maintained either... by the 90s it was a hot mess. A far cry from what Rexall is.

[blueandgoldguy]

Originally Posted by Oilkountry

emotional that's forsure. It was such a great building I'm so glad they are re purposing it vs demolition. What a waste that would be. Reading about the construction of that building was fascinating. The roof was built to withstand more weight than most arenas today. One thing i found interesting was when they were removing the roof support in construction, the roof was supposed to drop 15 inches in the centre. But it didn't budge a inch. And when they hoisted the centre hung for the first time ...dropped the 15 inches

farewell rex!

The lower bowl had noticeably more seats before the suite expansion in the 90s. The current lower bowl is small by comparison.

[blueandgoldguy]

Originally Posted by Oilkountry

I agree. Both rexall and the Saddledome have decades of use left in them. Rexall has been showings it's age with leaks the last few seasons but could definitely serve another 42 years. As for the dome there is legit concerns with the roof design and missing out on shows but from a hockey standpoint again, this building could carry the flames well beyond 2050s. What people forget sometimes is that these are concrete buildings. The structures themselves will never go anywhere as long as they are maintained spending half a billion dollars to gain a 3-4 million a season in Premium gate revenue just seems like bad business to me, Hence why they hit the city up so hard.

As for rexal being designed after pacific I can only imagine this is accurate. Rexall looks like a more modern pacific coliseum. it was one of the first buildings I can think of that had an open concourse. either than that the 2 didn't have much differences in the original design

They will be gaining a lot more than 3 - 4 million per season. The new arena will have approx. 4000 seats in premium sections. Add in additional concessions, more opportunities for advertisements/corporate sponsorships and the new building will probably generate $20 - $30 million in additional revenues each year.

[mistercorporate]

by TravelPat on RPB Forum:

[king10]

Originally Posted by cjones2451

i just read an article by dan ralph and he was saying the argos are paying for $10m of the $20m to fit into bmo and paying for their dressing room as well.

So for all tfc fans bemoaning the "free ride" the argos are getting, they are putting something substantial into to cost of this. I get that they are upset that the pitch may be at risk, and i get that, and they may be not cfl fans, but to consistently bad mouth the cfl and their "old" fans is just petty and juvenile.

I have said before that i am fans of both leagues (both viewed as small and underdogs by many) and wish them both success.

Lastly, i know mlse has put a ton of money into bmo for "primarily" tfc but if there was no possibility of a winter classic for the leafs, i don't think the investment would have been nearly as much.

qft

[king10]

BMO looks great. really hope they do something permanent to fill in that north endzone though. whether it be next year or the year after.

[Bluenote]

Originally Posted by king10

BMO looks great. really hope they do something permanent to fill in that north endzone though. whether it be next year or the year after.

That is the most bargain basement field I have seen. Heck even the old Bombers Stadium was better. Sorry it does nothing for me. Just looks like they through some covers over the stands. Stands that don't even match to boot.

Flame away. But let's face it. This isn't a nice stadium.

[mistercorporate]

I agree, 3 sides look bad. This stadium makes more sense when you consider it as a stadium designed to be easily and affordably expanded with only one side completed (the East stand). If they grow their properties enough that they get 30,000 seats filled 20 times a year even with jacked up prices, they will begin investing on a 40,000 expansion at minimum cost. The flexible "bones" they've built for the roof structures and the open North stands leaves room for affordable expansion even upto 60,000 seats in the distant future (by some estimates). This way MLSE can expand and repair as needed over several decades without depending on government handouts. This stadium has the longterm potential to become their biggest cash cow.

[Corndogger]

Originally Posted by Bluenote

That is the most bargain basement field I have seen. Heck even the old Bombers Stadium was better. Sorry it does nothing for me. Just looks like they through some covers over the stands. Stands that don't even match to boot.

Flame away. But let's face it. This isn't a nice stadium.

Thanks for saying that. I don't get how anyone can be excited about that stadium. And yes the stands look stupid. I hope CSEC doesn't use this stadium to justify the crappy facility they want to build in Calgary.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by mistercorporate

I agree, 3 sides look bad. This stadium makes more sense when you consider it as a stadium designed to be easily and affordably expanded with only one side completed (the East stand). If they grow their properties enough that they get 30,000 seats filled 20 times a year even with jacked up prices, they will begin investing on a 40,000 expansion at minimum cost. The flexible "bones" they've built for the roof structures and the open North stands leaves room for affordable expansion even upto 60,000 seats in the distant future (by some estimates). This way MLSE can expand and repair as needed over several decades without depending on government handouts. This stadium has the longterm potential to become their biggest cash cow.

Let's say for the sake of argument that TFC catches fire at the box office and starts selling out all the time with a major increase in demand for boxes and premium seats. Maybe not to Jays or Leafs levels but to a degree that goes well beyond what BMO can handle.

Does it make sense at that point to keep bolting on more parts to BMO, a stadium which was by all accounts built as a low-budget basic facility, or at that point does team management cut bait and simply start work on a new stadium built to meet the team's needs from the ground up?

[mistercorporate]

Originally Posted by esquire

Let's say for the sake of argument that TFC catches fire at the box office and starts selling out all the time with a major increase in demand for boxes and premium seats. Maybe not to Jays or Leafs levels but to a degree that goes well beyond what BMO can handle.

Does it make sense at that point to keep bolting on more parts to BMO, a stadium which was by all accounts built as a low-budget basic facility, or at that point does team management cut bait and simply start work on a new stadium built to meet the team's needs from the ground up?

Yes. Half the stadiums in the Premiership are built using that model, most of them far uglier than BMO from that perspective. The objective is scalability, cost effectiveness, fan experience (boxy enclosed outdoor stadiums are much louder and atmospheric). This is standard practice and one of the reasons this stadium is getting buzz in MLS. Others are more slick in design but this one has great street presence and follows old-world traditions, giving fans and players in North America a different experience. Driving down the Gardiner now, BMO stands with as much presence and heft as Rogers Centre.

Here's Anfield Stadium, considered by most to be the most atmospheric stadium in the Premiership and which uses an older iteration of the same construction techniques adopted by BMO Field. This is its 45,000 seat configuration, you can see how different stands were clumsily expanded over the years with different techniques, giving it a frankenstein appearance:



Here is a render of the new 59,000 seat expanded configuration, still incorporating some of those older upgrades but maintaining the same design aesthetic and atmosphere. This time the stands use the exact same construction/expansion techniques used in the new BMO Field. This is evidence that for MLSE, the design is meant to provide an authentic and world class atmosphere for fans and players alike and not for purposes of design aesthetic (Anfield is currently one of the ugliest major stadiums in the UK):

[HomerSPC]

Originally Posted by mistercorporate

What in the world... How do they plan on incorporating those seats on the left?

[mistercorporate]

Originally Posted by HomerSPC

What in the world... How do they plan on incorporating those seats on the left?

Like BMO it is a phased expansion. Once this configuration fills out they'll knock down the lower section and add a new larger lower stand below the rear seats. The ultimate Frankenstadium but best atmosphere for a stadium in the entire Premiership, they've been upgrading like this, one section, one phase at a time since 1884.

[HomerSPC]

Originally Posted by mistercorporate

Like BMO it is a phased expansion. Once this configuration fills out they'll knock down the lower section and add a new larger lower stand below the rear seats. The ultimate Frankenstadium but best atmosphere for a stadium in the entire Premiership, they've been upgrading like this, one section, one phase at a time since 1884.

And they manage to finish it in the summer break? That's crazy.

[Bluenote]

Originally Posted by Corndogger

Thanks for saying that. I don't get how anyone can be excited about that stadium. And yes the stands look stupid. I hope CSEC doesn't use this stadium to justify the crappy facility they want to build in Calgary.

Your welcome.
What amazes me is where it's built n, in one of the most densely populated parts of Canada and all they can muster is this. They can build Skydome and Reno Maple Leaf gardens and yet they build this.
How can little Regina and Winnipeg build stellar stadiums with 1/10 the population.

[caltrane74]

Yeah, but Toronto has 3 stadiums/Arenas. Not to mention all the athletic facilities like the velodrome, aquatic centre, and tennis centre. Things other big cities in Canada will never have.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by Bluenote

Your welcome.
What amazes me is where it's built n, in one of the most densely populated parts of Canada and all they can muster is this. They can build Skydome and Reno Maple Leaf gardens and yet they build this.
How can little Regina and Winnipeg build stellar stadiums with 1/10 the population.

I don't think you completely understand the concept of how soccer stadiums can be built, and built, and added on to over time. BMO's lifespan is essentially endless if you're willing to renovate and update and add structures over time. How much space room does Regina and Winnipeg have in this regard?

As well, those stadiums are the only stadiums of reasonable size in those cities. Toronto has BMO, Rogers, Varsity, Uniprix, plus more in the GTA....BMO is a constant work in progress, whereas once Regina and Winnipeg are built they're built and that's about it.

So what would you like BMO to be? Bigger? If size is your thing I should make a point to note that the world's largest stadium by capacity is in North Korea.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by JHikka

I don't think you completely understand the concept of how soccer stadiums can be built, and built, and added on to over time. BMO's lifespan is essentially endless if you're willing to renovate and update and add structures over time. How much space room does Regina and Winnipeg have in this regard?

The lifespan of any sports venue is essentially endless if you're willing to renovate and update and add structures over time.

[caltrane74]

That's why, I find it odd to complain about BMO, it started out as a $65 million dollar stadium 8 years ago. After all the improvements, it is now the largest stadium built for soccer in the MLS and can continue to be upgraded further. If MLS can one day rival the NBA/NFL/MLB the stadium can be built to those same standards as arenas in those leagues. If not, but there is a loyal following for the Toronto team, there maybe incremental improvements, just don't expect another $150 million dollar shellout on a stadium that was basically financed with Raptors and Leafs profits.