SkyCity Centre Winnipeg | 45F | 575 Ft | 175.26 M | Cancelled

[esquire]

The whole grocery store thing is overstated as a factor in downtown residential IMO.

When I lived downtown I had a car and typically drove to Superstore or Extra Foods to grocery shop. Safeway in OV was walking distance so I most often just went there. Maybe a couple of months I'd pop into Family Foods on Donald to pick up some stuff to tide me over, although I rarely spent more than $50 in a single shop there.

However, without a car you can still easily get what you need at Family Foods, Giant Tiger and The Forks. Maybe not as much variety or the low prices you get in the burbs, but I wish the constantly bandied about idea that there is nowhere to get food downtown would just die already since it is so blatantly false. In any event, many downtowners drive a few KMs to get their groceries just like everyone else.

[Urban recluse]

Originally Posted by jimj_wpg

I get an error page:

"Offline
Please try loading the page again after activating mobile data or connecting to a Wi-Fi network.

Click here to try again."

It looks like you were posting from a mobile device. I took out the "m." portion but now just get a blank page.

I am on my laptop right now, and it works.

[TimeFadesAway]

Originally Posted by esquire

The whole grocery store thing is overstated as a factor in downtown residential IMO.

Exactly. I live on Waterfront and in the winter I drive once a week...a 7 minute drive to No Frills on Notre Dame to grocery shop. When I lived in Wolseley I was 1 km further away from a grocery store that size.

If it wasn't for going to the lake in the summer, I'd ditch the car altogether.

FYI, I last filled the car with gas at the end of January and have between 1/3 and 1/2 of a tank still.

[jmt18325]

Why not ditch the car and rent? It's like $20 a day.

[Riverman]

Originally Posted by TimeFadesAway

FYI, I last filled the car with gas at the end of January and have between 1/3 and 1/2 of a tank still.

Gasoline has a life of about 2500 hours from time of manufacture. Best not to fill the car if you don't intend to use it.

[bomberjet]

Originally Posted by esquire

The whole grocery store thing is overstated as a factor in downtown residential IMO.

When I lived downtown I had a car and typically drove to Superstore or Extra Foods to grocery shop. Safeway in OV was walking distance so I most often just went there. Maybe a couple of months I'd pop into Family Foods on Donald to pick up some stuff to tide me over, although I rarely spent more than $50 in a single shop there.

However, without a car you can still easily get what you need at Family Foods, Giant Tiger and The Forks. Maybe not as much variety or the low prices you get in the burbs, but I wish the constantly bandied about idea that there is nowhere to get food downtown would just die already since it is so blatantly false. In any event, many downtowners drive a few KMs to get their groceries just like everyone else.

Originally Posted by TimeFadesAway

Exactly. I live on Waterfront and in the winter I drive once a week...a 7 minute drive to No Frills on Notre Dame to grocery shop. When I lived in Wolseley I was 1 km further away from a grocery store that size.

If it wasn't for going to the lake in the summer, I'd ditch the car altogether.

FYI, I last filled the car with gas at the end of January and have between 1/3 and 1/2 of a tank still.

Well it is and it isn't. If we want to people to ditch their cars and live downtown, they need somewhere to shop for everything. Right? I wouldn't be hauling groceries for 30 mins walking. I tell you that much.

IMO, it's not that big of a deal. I agree. All I'm saying is if there were one full service grocer downtown, that would be great. If it's located at SkyCity, great. If not, they need to come out and say it already. If they have someone lined up, tell people. It will only increase sales.

[esquire]

^ For whatever reason, having a recognizable grocery chain located downtown has taken on great symbolic weight that outweighs the practical difference that it would make.

Honestly, I wonder if seeing the Donald Street Family Foods become a Safeway with big Safeway signage out front might be enough to put an end to the discussion.... then everybody would know that there is a proper grocery store downtown.

[Urban recluse]

It is not so much that as it is a larger store with a location closer to the Waterfront/Exchange area.

[design25]

I don't get people who think that without a big grocery store at SkyCity, all is lost. In downtown Toronto, until they built the giant Loblaws at the old Hockey rink, there were no significant sized grocers downtown. Somehow, people managed to keep from starving. Moving downtown is an adjustment. Being located right on Graham Ave, bussing it to a grocer would not be a big deal. Or find small grocers who have unique items, etc. Otherwise, jump in your car like probably 75% of other 'peggers do. imo

[bomberjet]

All this goes back to SkyCity touting their grocer, but haven't produced anything by their own timelines. That's all.

[NK59]

Originally Posted by design25

I don't get people who think that without a big grocery store at SkyCity, all is lost. In downtown Toronto, until they built the giant Loblaws at the old Hockey rink, there were no significant sized grocers downtown. Somehow, people managed to keep from starving. Moving downtown is an adjustment. Being located right on Graham Ave, bussing it to a grocer would not be a big deal. Or find small grocers who have unique items, etc. Otherwise, jump in your car like probably 75% of other 'peggers do. imo

A good grocery internet storefront and delivery service is the answer.

[scryer]

Originally Posted by design25

I don't get people who think that without a big grocery store at SkyCity, all is lost. In downtown Toronto, until they built the giant Loblaws at the old Hockey rink, there were no significant sized grocers downtown. Somehow, people managed to keep from starving. Moving downtown is an adjustment. Being located right on Graham Ave, bussing it to a grocer would not be a big deal. Or find small grocers who have unique items, etc. Otherwise, jump in your car like probably 75% of other 'peggers do. imo

That's part of the problem. Someone living downtown will have to deal with the dramas of parking with the other 75% of the population.

IMO a real downtown's attractiveness comes from the proximity of its amenities and being somewhat walkable. And this is where I think that Winnipeg, in general, is out of touch with the realities of living in an ideal downtown.

Sure it ain't a big deal to catch a bus to a grocery store nearby. But if you're buying 3 weeks worth of groceries, this is actually a chore and a pain in the ass especially if it's -30 in the midst of winter. And it's a special pain in the ass if your bus is late or takes extra time to get you back home (because of the snow or slow traffic). We have winter about 5 months long here. So do the math. And don't even get me started on this joke of a BRT system...

Sure you can buy groceries at a small-chain or at an independent grocery store. But you're paying significantly more than what you would at one of these larger chain stores. And with the rising prices of groceries... yeah. The only challenge I really see there being to adding a large grocery store to Winnipeg's downtown is that there might not be enough people living downtown to support it.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but are there really absolutely no large grocery stores in downtown?

[esquire]

Originally Posted by scryer

Correct me if I'm wrong, but are there really absolutely no large grocery stores in downtown?

Define "large" and "downtown"

There is a Family Foods on Donald that is probably bigger than what most small town residents in Manitoba use on a regular basis, but because it's not Superstore sized with a parking lot to match, it doesn't count. Same with Giant Tiger.

There is a Safeway on River that you can see from downtown and easily walk to from the southwestern corner of downtown, but because it's south of the Assiniboine River, it doesn't count. Same with the other supermarkets just outside downtown like Safeway on Sargent, or Extra Foods on Notre Dame/Marion.

There is a Young's Foods on William which has a good assortment of basics but because it's an ethnic grocery, it doesn't count. Same with other ethnic grocers like Sun Wah.

Really, this debate is not about places to buy groceries because those clearly exist. It's about a full scale suburban-style big name chain supermarket.

[bomberjet]

Correct scryer. Chicken and egg thing again.

[cheswick]

Originally Posted by scryer

That's part of the problem. Someone living downtown will have to deal with the dramas of parking with the other 75% of the population.

IMO a real downtown's attractiveness comes from the proximity of its amenities and being somewhat walkable. And this is where I think that Winnipeg, in general, is out of touch with the realities of living in an ideal downtown.

Sure it ain't a big deal to catch a bus to a grocery store nearby. But if you're buying 3 weeks worth of groceries, this is actually a chore and a pain in the ass especially if it's -30 in the midst of winter. And it's a special pain in the ass if your bus is late or takes extra time to get you back home (because of the snow or slow traffic). We have winter about 5 months long here. So do the math. And don't even get me started on this joke of a BRT system...

Sure you can buy groceries at a small-chain or at an independent grocery store. But you're paying significantly more than what you would at one of these larger chain stores. And with the rising prices of groceries... yeah. The only challenge I really see there being to adding a large grocery store to Winnipeg's downtown is that there might not be enough people living downtown to support it.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but are there really absolutely no large grocery stores in downtown?

There are people who buy 3 weeks worth of groceries at a time??

[esquire]

Originally Posted by cheswick

There are people who buy 3 weeks worth of groceries at a time??

Maybe that's the problem... I've stayed at airbnbs in big European cities, and guess what... there's no Costco in central Paris. All those urbanites live in neighbourhoods where Family Foods type markets are at the large end of the scale. People do their daily shopping in places like this, probably not much bigger than a Winnipeg 7-Eleven:



At some point you have to accept that if you want urban living, that means you won't be getting the gigantic suburban shopping environments. Places like Family Foods or the food section at GT (size-wise, not necessarily the products) are the norm.

[emeraldeyes]

Originally Posted by esquire

Maybe that's the problem... I've stayed at airbnbs in big European cities, and guess what... there's no Costco in central Paris. All those urbanites live in places where Family Foods type markets are at the large end of the scale. People do their daily shopping in places like this, probably not much bigger than a Winnipeg 7-Eleven:



At some point you have to accept that if you want urban living, that means you won't be getting the gigantic suburban shopping environments.

These micro-stores are also an option in big European cities because people are accustomed to (and prefer) going to a butcher for the meat, a proper bakery/boulangerie or pastry shop/patisserie and therefore the stores are more streamlined in the product selection. That is something of an adjustment for a North American who likes one stop shopping.

All those little stores, where you go several times a week and where you get to know the owner, who may also live in the neighbourhood, that's a big part of what makes a real community.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by emeraldeyes

These micro-stores are also an option in big European cities because people are accustomed to (and prefer) going to a butcher for the meat, a proper bakery/boulangerie or pastry shop/patisserie and therefore the stores are more streamlined in the product selection. That is something of an adjustment for a North American who likes one stop shopping.

I recognize that, but these places do offer a basic but fairly good selection of meat and bread. Maybe not every single cut of beef like at a butcher's, but the basics are covered.

By the same token, the Safeway in my inner-ring suburban neighbourhood has a somewhat limited selection of specialty cheeses, breads, etc. Anything beyond fairly standard stuff and I have to go somewhere else. So it's not just a downtown issue.

[biguc]

Nobody who lives in cities buys three weeks of groceries at a time.

Part of city living is ditching the deep freeze and hitting the store a couple times a week to make smaller grocery buys. One unspoken benefit of this is that it makes it easier to eat fresh food, rather than mining your freezer for Michelina's.

In this capacity, Downtown Winnipeg is served by Family Foods, on Donald, and Abbey's Payfair in Central Park. Like others have said, the area around Skycity is kind of far from either of those places, and a similar grocery store would serve it well.

[emeraldeyes]

Originally Posted by esquire

I recognize that, but these places do offer a basic but fairly good selection of meat and bread. Maybe not every single cut of beef like at a butcher's, but the basics are covered.

By the same token, the Safeway in my inner-ring suburban neighbourhood has a somewhat limited selection of specialty cheeses, breads, etc. Anything beyond fairly standard stuff and I have to go somewhere else. So it's not just a downtown issue.

Oh yes, I agree. Just saying that the North American experience/expectation is different and an adjustment has to be made in order to thrive in a truly 'urban' sense.
Certainly what Winnipeggers seem to be expecting in a downtown grocer is much different than what the reality probably should be and what would be most meaningful for really building a community. If all you have to do is walk into the grocery store connected to your condo building then head up the elevator, that's not much more helpful building a neighbourhood than driving into your attached garage in the suburbs. OTOH, if you walk around the neighbourhood to gather your produce, your pastries, your fresh flowers etc, your feet are on the ground and you're out there seeing people and engaging.
IDK.