New Vancouver Art Gallery | Proposed

[VancouverOfTheFuture]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Noted, toning it down.

In other news, the Vancouver Concert Hall & Theatre Society wants to convert the old courthouse into a pair of underground theatres after the Art Gallery moves. Pretty creative.

I've heard rumours that the BC Government wants to reclaim the court houses to add more court rooms as they are running low on them. i cant remember where i read that, it was a while back now.

Originally Posted by trofirhen

Maybe the square wooden design is cheaper, but the Baku design is SO much more urbane, so much sleeker, so much more "world class".

well with like all things, the cheaper you make it, the cheaper it looks. the more you spend, the nicer things are. look at everything. more $$$=alot nicer.

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by VancouverOfTheFuture

I've heard rumours that the BC Government wants to reclaim the court houses to add more court rooms as they are running low on them. i cant remember where i read that, it was a while back now.

I just hope they've reconsidered!

well with like all things, the cheaper you make it, the cheaper it looks. the more you spend, the nicer things are. look at everything. more $$$=alot nicer.

Yep! You pay for less, you get less. Make it out of dried cow dung, in that case!!

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Haven't seen these before on the forum.

Thanks.

That will be pretty tall - compare to the Sandman Inn to the right.
(i.e. twice the height of the Sandman Inn)

[BCPhil]

Originally Posted by officedweller

Thanks.

That will be pretty tall - compare to the Sandman Inn to the right.
(i.e. twice the height of the Sandman Inn)

I'm really starting to question if the location is all that great for a building like this. Like the design or not, right across the street is IMO the ugliest building in Vancouver. It would be interesting to see a render with the Sandman hotel popping out behind it. Where is the cute little pedestrian perspective of someone looking out across the street and seeing the Shark Club; I want to see the apathy on that imaginary person's face.

And when you're coming up the (one day) Georgia ramp to Georgia street, the Condo on the corner kind of blocks your view of the building. You won't see much of the Gallery until you are at Beatty Street.

A bit of a wasted opportunity: it will pretty much only be photogenic from the angle in the popular renders (from Georgia looking East).

I think a shorter but bulkier wooden Art Gallery building where the Plaza of Nations is would be fantastic. Something like the MOA, but wood. With False creek infront of it, and BC Place (and the city) behind it, and a Georgia Wharf next to it, visible from all around False Creek, it would be the most photographed location in the city. It pretty much already is, but instead of some condos blocking out BC place in the future, it could be a much more attractive public institute like the VAG.

In the Larwill park location, the VAG will be surrounded by the Sandman, a condo tower, that energy facility, the ass end of the CBC, and the Media club (I bet that they don't alter the QE plaza, it hosts a lot of events due in no small part to the facilities above/in the Media Club). When you are in the VAG tower looking out, the view will be uninspiring: maybe a glimpse of BC Place over those smoke stacks, the Sandman, and a corner of the Library that you can see on the other side of its office tower, maybe the Sun tower, part of the Dominion building, and maybe the tops of the Sails at Canada Place poking out behind the Harbour center.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by BCPhil

I think a shorter but bulkier wooden Art Gallery building where the Plaza of Nations is would be fantastic. Something like the MOA, but wood. With False creek infront of it, and BC Place (and the city) behind it, and a Georgia Wharf next to it, visible from all around False Creek, it would be the most photographed location in the city. It pretty much already is, but instead of some condos blocking out BC place in the future, it could be a much more attractive public institute like the VAG.

(leans forward) Keep talking...

[Vin]

Originally Posted by christmas

God, the savageness of these posts. Can one have an opinion in Vancouver?
I don't see how and why people got so butthurt.
Like what kind of attachment do you need to have on this website that should make you overreact as a few of you are doing now? (Or is that just who you are)
Get a life.

Oh yeah you should have seen people's reactions to a mere suggestion of "malls".

[Vin]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Love this design. Wood should be protected under glass, but showing at the same time.

[mezzanine]

Originally Posted by BCPhil

A bit of a wasted opportunity: it will pretty much only be photogenic from the angle in the popular renders (from Georgia looking East).

I think a shorter but bulkier wooden Art Gallery building where the Plaza of Nations is would be fantastic. Something like the MOA, but wood. With False creek infront of it, and BC Place (and the city) behind it, and a Georgia Wharf next to it, visible from all around False Creek, it would be the most photographed location in the city. It pretty much already is, but instead of some condos blocking out BC place in the future, it could be a much more attractive public institute like the VAG.

In the Larwill park location, the VAG will be surrounded by the Sandman, a condo tower, that energy facility, the ass end of the CBC, and the Media club (I bet that they don't alter the QE plaza, it hosts a lot of events due in no small part to the facilities above/in the Media Club). When you are in the VAG tower looking out, the view will be uninspiring: maybe a glimpse of BC Place over those smoke stacks, the Sandman, and a corner of the Library that you can see on the other side of its office tower, maybe the Sun tower, part of the Dominion building, and maybe the tops of the Sails at Canada Place poking out behind the Harbour center.

I think the wagon is hitched for now to Larwill Park. They did do a techncal analysis of the NEFC site when Gordon Campbell made the VAG/NEFC announcement - the site is mainly fill, leading to more expensive construction. The high water table prevents building underground art storage, parking and secured loading bays.

The gallery's board chair, David Aisenstat, confirmed yesterday that geotechnical reports have indicated the site would require special construction.

"And if there's a very significant cost difference, that's going to make a difference to us. The art gallery is going to make a responsible decision."

The NEFC site is owned by Canadian Metropolitan Properties - isn't even owned by the province or the city.

[jollyburger]

Originally Posted by BCPhil

In the Larwill park location, the VAG will be surrounded by the Sandman, a condo tower, that energy facility, the ass end of the CBC, and the Media club (I bet that they don't alter the QE plaza, it hosts a lot of events due in no small part to the facilities above/in the Media Club). When you are in the VAG tower looking out, the view will be uninspiring: maybe a glimpse of BC Place over those smoke stacks, the Sandman, and a corner of the Library that you can see on the other side of its office tower, maybe the Sun tower, part of the Dominion building, and maybe the tops of the Sails at Canada Place poking out behind the Harbour center.

Isn't the energy facility also going to be redeveloped at some point? And when you are in a new VAG building, I think the last thing anyone cares about is the view outside. If that was important they would stick the gallery in a 100 storey tower.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by mezzanine

I think the wagon is hitched for now to Larwill Park. They did do a techncal analysis of the NEFC site when Gordon Campbell made the VAG/NEFC announcement - the site is mainly fill, leading to more expensive construction. The high water table prevents building underground art storage, parking and secured loading bays.

The NEFC site is owned by Canadian Metropolitan Properties - isn't even owned by the province or the city.

I suppose water and art shouldn't mix. There are far better development opportunities for something in the Plaza of Nations spot anyway. It will be across the street from the new entertainment district. I wonder if whatever is there will continue to serve the big party boats that use that area as a launch site.

[mcminsen]

Originally Posted by logan5

Originally Posted by christmas

I walked around the site today and took these pics to illustrate the view from ground level looking kitty corner across the four intersections at the corners of the block. Considering that the downtown street grid sits at an approximate 45 degree angle to north/south/east/west, these views are looking true north/south/east/west.

Try to imagine the new art gallery in these views. In the second and third pic it would be about twice the height of the Sandman Inn. Of course, the two views from Dunsmuir would have the two new towers in the foreground.




April 4 '16, my pics

Looking east across Georgia and Cambie:



Looking south across Cambie and Dunsmuir:



Looking west across Dunsmuir and Beatty:



Looking north across Beatty and Georgia:

[osirisboy]

If the ground floor was two stories in height I would like it a lot more. And would balance out with the heaviness of the top

[djmk]

Originally Posted by osirisboy

If the ground floor was two stories in height I would like it a lot more. And would balance out with the heaviness of the top

Would not the Beatty side be two stories? I assumed it would be

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by osirisboy

If the ground floor was two stories in height I would like it a lot more. And would balance out with the heaviness of the top

They don't really need to change the ground floor so much as break up the top into separate layers. It looks okay in the concept.

[Vin]

Originally Posted by BCPhil

I'm really starting to question if the location is all that great for a building like this. Like the design or not, right across the street is IMO the ugliest building in Vancouver. It would be interesting to see a render with the Sandman hotel popping out behind it. Where is the cute little pedestrian perspective of someone looking out across the street and seeing the Shark Club; I want to see the apathy on that imaginary person's face.

And when you're coming up the (one day) Georgia ramp to Georgia street, the Condo on the corner kind of blocks your view of the building. You won't see much of the Gallery until you are at Beatty Street.

A bit of a wasted opportunity: it will pretty much only be photogenic from the angle in the popular renders (from Georgia looking East).

I think a shorter but bulkier wooden Art Gallery building where the Plaza of Nations is would be fantastic. Something like the MOA, but wood. With False creek infront of it, and BC Place (and the city) behind it, and a Georgia Wharf next to it, visible from all around False Creek, it would be the most photographed location in the city. It pretty much already is, but instead of some condos blocking out BC place in the future, it could be a much more attractive public institute like the VAG.

In the Larwill park location, the VAG will be surrounded by the Sandman, a condo tower, that energy facility, the ass end of the CBC, and the Media club (I bet that they don't alter the QE plaza, it hosts a lot of events due in no small part to the facilities above/in the Media Club). When you are in the VAG tower looking out, the view will be uninspiring: maybe a glimpse of BC Place over those smoke stacks, the Sandman, and a corner of the Library that you can see on the other side of its office tower, maybe the Sun tower, part of the Dominion building, and maybe the tops of the Sails at Canada Place poking out behind the Harbour center.

I don't think planners in this city consider much about all those details you just put forward, if that's the case, BC Place Stadium wouldn't be boxed in in the first place, among many other examples. All the City care about are mountain views and other zoning restrictions, LEED points for new structures concerned, how to pacify both developers and Nimbys at the same time, and to be liable for as little costs as possible. All other issues are secondary or non-existent.

[Vin]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

They don't really need to change the ground floor so much as break up the top into separate layers. It looks okay in the concept.

Would a design like this actually cost millions? When I was 3 or so, I'm sure I stacked up stuff that looked just like this, some even nicer looking.

[Jebby]

Originally Posted by Vin

Would a design like this actually cost millions? When I was 3 or so, I'm sure I stacked up stuff that looked just like this, some even nicer looking.

I'm sure you stacked it 100 stories higher. And even built a lego mall underneath it.

[BCPhil]

Originally Posted by mezzanine

I think the wagon is hitched for now to Larwill Park. They did do a techncal analysis of the NEFC site when Gordon Campbell made the VAG/NEFC announcement - the site is mainly fill, leading to more expensive construction. The high water table prevents building underground art storage, parking and secured loading bays.

The NEFC site is owned by Canadian Metropolitan Properties - isn't even owned by the province or the city.

The high water table makes it more difficult, not impossible. Similar conditions didn't stop City Gate, or the Olympic Village (the salt building was built on pilings over the water for crying out loud and the north end patio used to be a dock), or the buildings along Main street, or the new Great Northern way campus, or many of the buildings lining the Yaletown waterfront.

And since when was anything about the art world supposed to be easy? And if the pricetag was a major concern, the VAG could just lease space in the soon to be rejuvenated old Post Office instead of spending millions more on a vanity project (I'm sure the developer would trade a 99 year lease for $1 and some density permits).

As for who owns the land, if only there was a mechanism in place where you could engage with someone who owns something you want and if only there was something you had that you could trade for said thing.

Sarcasm aside, the Plaza of Nations site is comparable in value to the Larwill Park site mainly because I think you could get away with more density and higher buildings on the site, and its location makes retail, office, and hotel space more valuable. If you threw in an increase in allowed density to the site and more height, you could trade the properties and walk away with a good chuck of change for the down payment on the VAG.

Originally Posted by jollyburger

Isn't the energy facility also going to be redeveloped at some point? And when you are in a new VAG building, I think the last thing anyone cares about is the view outside. If that was important they would stick the gallery in a 100 story tower.

The render of the VAG has people on outdoor patios. There are more people on the upper floor patios in that render than I have ever seen inside the current real VAG. And most of the people are shown on the South side, staring into the oblivion that is the Sandman Hotel. Like moths to a flame, they cannot escape the horror that they see.

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

I suppose water and art shouldn't mix. There are far better development opportunities for something in the Plaza of Nations spot anyway. It will be across the street from the new entertainment district. I wonder if whatever is there will continue to serve the big party boats that use that area as a launch site.

There is no new entertainment district.

There is a severely handicapped casino and..... that's pretty much it. The last proposal I saw for the site had mostly more condos for the Plaza. And that would just complete the wall of condos stretching from Yaletown, past in front of the Stadiums, joining the condos at Rogers Arena to Concord's condos in NEFC, then a huge park (that will be off limits after sundown most likely). Sounds like fun!

A VAG at the Plaza of Nations site would keep the location in the public realm. A new VAG could incorporate into its design an outdoor amphitheater (much like the site is currently). The amphitheater could be used to extend and enhance the events at not just the VAG but also the Stadiums, casino, and for any conventions they host.

The VAG could use the Seawall to its advantage and have open work and display space. Imagine riding by on your bike and taking a break to watch someone blow glass or carve a sculpture. You could also have sheltered/protected display space where public art is on display that is available to the public, but if displayed in other parts of the city would just be vandalized. Besides just the people intentionally visiting the art gallery, a VAG on the Seawall could engage with thousands of other people every day who are just going about other activities.

Right now, the VAG is at a physical crossroads in the central hub with multiple public amenities that makes it a part of the daily lives of thousands of people, even if they aren't paying to see art. Thousands walk past it while on their way to work or while shopping. The understreet plaza hosts ice skating and even concerts. The Robson plaza hosts art and events, as well as closes during the summer to create a public lounge. The front plaza is a focal point for protests and parties: one weekend it will be a gathering spot for people to voice their concerns, the next it will be home to concerts for Jazzfest.

The Larwill park site pretty much loses all of that. The Gallery will be just a gallery. It will be IN Vancouver instead of PART of Vancouver.

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by BCPhil

... And most of the people are shown on the South side, staring into the oblivion that is the Sandman Hotel. Like moths to a flame, they cannot escape the horror that they see.

Well, there are a lot of binoculars in the north side offices of TD tower facing the Four Seasons - just sayin'

[mcminsen]

Originally Posted by logan5

April 5 '16, my pic