YVR Airport & Sea Island Developments Discussion

[moosejaw]

Originally Posted by Klazu

I would think so. I don't think anyone else flies one, yet.

It's not that bad of a plane. I just embarked from one here in Toronto after a red eye flight from YVR. Now waiting to board AC941 to MIA.

Connecting in Toronto for an US-bound flight is just so cumbersome through all the checks at F terminal. They had again added a new step to complete. Luckily I was quick to embark the plane as those pre-clearances can take time. I wonder how it's in Vancouver for US connections?

Welcome to miami Klazu. Hopefully there wont be any rain during your stay

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by Klazu

I would think so. I don't think anyone else flies one, yet.

It's not that bad of a plane. I just embarked from one here in Toronto after a red eye flight from YVR. Now waiting to board AC941 to MIA.

Connecting in Toronto for an US-bound flight is just so cumbersome through all the checks at F terminal. They had again added a new step to complete. Luckily I was quick to embark the plane as those pre-clearances can take time. I wonder how it's in Vancouver for US connections?

...which begs the ancient question ... is there enough yield for a YVR - MIA nonstop? It somehow seems viable, yet apparently not.

[SFUVancouver]

Originally Posted by Klazu

Welcome home, our own road warrior!

Thank you!

Originally Posted by Klazu

I would think so. I don't think anyone else flies one, yet.

It's not that bad of a plane. I just embarked from one here in Toronto after a red eye flight from YVR. Now waiting to board AC941 to MIA.

Connecting in Toronto for an US-bound flight is just so cumbersome through all the checks at F terminal. They had again added a new step to complete. Luckily I was quick to embark the plane as those pre-clearances can take time. I wonder how it's in Vancouver for US connections?

I've stopped flying through YYZ to the US because of the unpredictability of transiting through that airport. I was dumbfounded in December when after hustling and running through the airport to make my tight connection (due to a later-than-planned departure from Vancouver) I found myself confronted with a waiting/holding area where you have to wait and watch a screen and have your name come up before proceeding through to the next stage of customs. After that you still need to clear security again, despite being airside! The only reason I made my flight was because it, too, had been delayed in its arrival to YYZ. [Air Canada for the YVR-YYZ leg; Air Canada Express (Air Georgian) for the US connection].

[moosejaw]

Originally Posted by trofirhen

...which begs the ancient question ... is there enough yield for a YVR - MIA nonstop? It somehow seems viable, yet apparently not.

Trofirhen I know you like Miami a lot

In my experience twenty years ago as a kid..... defintely not
American Airlines flew a 767 daily in the midst of cruise ship season
It was an expensive flight.....Over $700 return
There was on average one person per row with some rows unfilled.
I believe it was a seasonal flight.

Now you might say that nowadays with the Chinese connections, YVR is possible???
However nowadays the 777LR jets are shooting for Miami to Taipei targets which will pretty much make YVR obsolete in the near future. I believe the range is close.

Coupled with the fact that China Air Cargo already flies daily to MIA via Frankfurt and already has a maintenance crew stationed here makes the possibility of Asian Airlines passing over Vancouver a unfortunate reality.

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by moosejaw

Trofirhen I know you like Miami a lot

In my experience twenty years ago as a kid..... defintely not
American Airlines flew a 767 daily in the midst of cruise ship season
It was an expensive flight.....Over $700 return
There was on average one person per row with some rows unfilled.
I believe it was a seasonal flight.

Now you might say that nowadays with the Chinese connections, YVR is possible???
However nowadays the 777LR jets are shooting for Miami to Taipei targets which will pretty much make YVR obsolete in the near future. I believe the range is close.

Coupled with the fact that China Air Cargo already flies daily to MIA via Frankfurt and already has a maintenance crew stationed here makes the possibility of Asian Airlines passing over Vancouver a unfortunate reality.

Yes, I see. Th only way around that would be if their enough O/D traffic between YVR and MIA, which there is not.

[casper]

Originally Posted by trofirhen

Yes, I see. Th only way around that would be if their enough O/D traffic between YVR and MIA, which there is not.

An airlines that might be able to make it work would be Philippine airlines. All those Miami cruise ships are full of Philippine contract workers that commute home every couple of months.

That said, I don't know if the volumes would work or not.

[Klazu]

Originally Posted by SFUVancouver

I've stopped flying through YYZ to the US because of the unpredictability of transiting through that airport. I was dumbfounded in December [...] I found myself confronted with a waiting/holding area where you have to wait and watch a screen and have your name come up before proceeding through to the next stage of customs. After that you still need to clear security again, despite being airside!

Yeah, that step is definitely new and I don't get the point of it. For some reason I was able to skip it as the machine told me to go directly to an officer, but many people were turned back. I didn't get the point of it.

Pre-clearing customs in Canada is great when your flying directly across the border, but having to do it upon your connection is very risky. Too bad that many connections from Vancouver to places on east coast will take you through YYZ or YUL, unless you choose to fly via ORD, MSP or SEA even.

What is also so strange in Toronto is that arriving from Vancouver, you are embarking very quickly to a public non-secure area as you move towards F terminal. You see all the people checking in beside you and there is no security check there. The whole F terminal experience seems like an afterthought to me. I hope the experience in Vancouver is smoother for transit passengers (never done it myself).

[Klazu]

Originally Posted by moosejaw

Welcome to miami Klazu. Hopefully there wont be any rain during your stay

Thanks! Pleasure to be here and I am staying in Westin Fort Lauderdale tonight. I will be making my way towards Orlando later this week and then Tampa next week, before returning to Vancouver. Ten days of spring break sightseeing and my first time in Florida. Looks nice and warm so far!

Originally Posted by trofirhen

...which begs the ancient question ... is there enough yield for a YVR - MIA nonstop? It somehow seems viable, yet apparently not.

Leftcoaster has already crunched the numbers for us. I just want to add that I personally know of many people and companies that have satellite offices or customers in Florida (either Miami or Orlando area), so there is lots of traveling back and forth. Tourism should still triumph that, both ways.

As a side note the early morning A320 from YYZ to MIA wasn't full either. Actually there were so few people that I believe it was because of that the check-in system gave me an Exit Row seat free of charge so that there would be someone to open it if needed! What a pleasant surprise.

[Johnny Aussie]

Not really worth mentioning.. but OK why not!

AS is decreasing frequency on YVR-SEA to only 5 daily..... but...
2 of the 5 will be on Alaska mainline... and...
they will be on 737-800s... so...
more than likely sporting their new look!

Overall there will be more seats as last winter the route was 6 daily on Horizon DH4s.

[stiffdeadman]

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

Not really worth mentioning.. but OK why not!

AS is decreasing frequency on YVR-SEA to only 5 daily..... but...
2 of the 5 will be on Alaska mainline... and...
they will be on 737-800s... so...
more than likely sporting their new look!

Overall there will be more seats as last winter the route was 6 daily on Horizon DH4s.

Interesting. Lots of seats to fill. I looked in November and a roundtrip is over $300US. Not exactly enticing to anyone south of the Fraser when Bellingham is way cheaper. Notice they sure pad the flight times. No way is it an hour flight time when BLI to SEA is 25 minutes. Guess they go gate to gate to get the hour.

[Johnny Aussie]

Originally Posted by stiffdeadman

Interesting. Lots of seats to fill. I looked in November and a roundtrip is over $300US. Not exactly enticing to anyone south of the Fraser when Bellingham is way cheaper. Notice they sure pad the flight times. No way is it an hour flight time when BLI to SEA is 25 minutes. Guess they go gate to gate to get the hour.

I would tip that over 90% of the pax on YVR-SEA are connecting onto Alaska's vast network out of SEA. 1:00 "flying time" on a 738 but only 0:49 on a DH4. Yes that is block to block time... BLI-SEA is 0:40 on all flights whether it's a DH4 or a 738.

I couldn't imagine driving to Bellingham only to then fly to Seattle. I would just keep driving...

[ShawnShank]

AC rouge going to use their new A321s on 1 daily flight to LAS in May and October as per http://airlineroute.net/2016/03/29/zx-321-s16update1/

Can't wait to see them in person, while I'd never actually fly rouge their livery is amazing

[teriyaki]

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

I would tip that over 90% of the pax on YVR-SEA are connecting onto Alaska's vast network out of SEA. 1:00 "flying time" on a 738 but only 0:49 on a DH4. Yes that is block to block time... BLI-SEA is 0:40 on all flights whether it's a DH4 or a 738.

I couldn't imagine driving to Bellingham only to then fly to Seattle. I would just keep driving...

YVR-SEA is proving to be a popular route for connections for both Alaska and Delta. Just flew down to connect in SEA 2 weeks ago on DL, and the flight was oversold and were asking for volunteers to give up their seat. Next available flight wasn't till the day after.

Just this weekend, flew back up from SEA-YVR and again it was oversold, with no available flights back up for 2 days after. Every flight over the holiday weekend was completely oversold and I think they have like 5x daily.

[Valley_Refugee]

Originally Posted by stiffdeadman

Interesting. Lots of seats to fill. I looked in November and a roundtrip is over $300US. Not exactly enticing to anyone south of the Fraser when Bellingham is way cheaper. Notice they sure pad the flight times. No way is it an hour flight time when BLI to SEA is 25 minutes. Guess they go gate to gate to get the hour.

FYI, airlines generally report all flight times as gate to gate.

[sacrifice333]

Originally Posted by Valley_Refugee

FYI, airlines generally report all flight times as gate to gate.

Don't most report Gate to Touchdown and then PAD vigorously?!

[Cage]

Originally Posted by Klazu

Connecting in Toronto for an US-bound flight is just so cumbersome through all the checks at F terminal. They had again added a new step to complete. Luckily I was quick to embark the plane as those pre-clearances can take time. I wonder how it's in Vancouver for US connections?

Originally Posted by SFUVancouver

I've stopped flying through YYZ to the US because of the unpredictability of transiting through that airport. I was dumbfounded in December when after hustling and running through the airport to make my tight connection (due to a later-than-planned departure from Vancouver) I found myself confronted with a waiting/holding area where you have to wait and watch a screen and have your name come up before proceeding through to the next stage of customs. After that you still need to clear security again, despite being airside! The only reason I made my flight was because it, too, had been delayed in its arrival to YYZ. [Air Canada for the YVR-YYZ leg; Air Canada Express (Air Georgian) for the US connection].

Originally Posted by Klazu

Yeah, that step is definitely new and I don't get the point of it. For some reason I was able to skip it as the machine told me to go directly to an officer, but many people were turned back. I didn't get the point of it.

.....
What is also so strange in Toronto is that arriving from Vancouver, you are embarking very quickly to a public non-secure area as you move towards F terminal. You see all the people checking in beside you and there is no security check there. The whole F terminal experience seems like an afterthought to me. I hope the experience in Vancouver is smoother for transit passengers (never done it myself).

There is a Transborder connections center in YYZ T1, this is the holding pen everyone above is talking about. In the good old days 10 years ago, the connection center included a luggage carousel where the pax would wait for their bags and then proceed through USCBP and through security. When YYZ implemented a new connection checked bag process, pax were no longer required to pickup their bags to proceed through USCBP. The waiting area is to ensure that connection pax bags are received into the USCBP bag area prior to the pax clearing customs and immigration. If the primary inspection officer needs to refer the pax to secondary screening, the checked bags are also pulled and inspected. Carry on only pax do not have to go through the check bag wait process.

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by moosejaw

Trofirhen I know you like Miami a lot

In my experience twenty years ago as a kid..... defintely not
American Airlines flew a 767 daily in the midst of cruise ship season. It was an expensive flight.....Over $700 return
There was on average one person per row with some rows unfilled. I believe it was a seasonal flight.

Now you might say that nowadays with the Chinese connections, YVR is possible???
However nowadays the 777LR jets are shooting for Miami to Taipei targets which will pretty much make YVR obsolete in the near future. I believe the range is close.

Coupled with the fact that China Air Cargo already flies daily to MIA via Frankfurt and already has a maintenance crew stationed here makes the possibility of Asian Airlines passing over Vancouver a unfortunate reality.

Given that, I wonder why, nonetheless YVR will have more Chinese airlines than, as "EXCEL" pointed out: LAX, LHR, AMS, FRA, SFO and JFK. Seems rather a huge anomaly.

[nname]

Originally Posted by trofirhen

Given that, I wonder why, nonetheless YVR will have more Chinese airlines than, as "EXCEL" pointed out: LAX, LHR, AMS, FRA, SFO and JFK. Seems rather a huge anomaly.

Only for now.

Right now the Chinese carrier are applying for LAX like crazy... What's new for this year and early next year:

HU CSX-LAX
3U CTU-TNA-LAX
3U CTU-HGH-LAX
MF XMN-LAX
CA SZX-LAX

Plus the existing:

CA PEK-LAX
MU PVG-LAX
MU CTU-NKG-LAX
CZ CAN-LAX

Interestingly there will be 3 different one-stop services to CTU 3x weekly each

Seems like CA is starting to develop its southern hub at SZX as it will start 3 long-haul routes this year to Europe, North America, and Australia. Maybe SZX-YVR is coming soon?

[trofirhen]

So, YVR's main competitor for this market is therefore LAX, and not SEA, I would assume?

[swan_ch]

Originally Posted by trofirhen

So, YVR's main competitor for this market is therefore LAX, and not SEA, I would assume?

While consider the Chinese Population in these cities in West Coast, Seattle is not even close. (source: Wikipedia)

San Francisco, CA: 172,181
Los Angeles, CA: 66,782
San Jose, CA: 63,434
San Diego, CA: 35,661
Fremont, CA: 34,678
Oakland, CA: 34,083
Seattle, WA: 27,216