Sports in Canadian culture

[esquire]

Originally Posted by elly63

Yes and no.

In total, repaying the mortgage ($1.5 billion) took 30 years (same as a house) for all the facilities combined: the Olympic Village and its subsequent conversion to rental apartments, the Velodrome and its conversion to the Biodôme, and the Stadium and adjacent Sports Centre. Soooo... it's this

Still terrible value for money when you consider that Seattle built the Kingdome in 1977 for $67 million and the 1996 Olympic swim venue cost $17 million.

You could have probably built a good velodrome and apartment complex at the time for $50 million.

So in reality, with a bit of common sense they could have built a functionally equivalent Olympic sports complex for 10% of what was actually spent. Hell, they could have doubled it just for improved aesthetics and still come out over a billion dollars ahead.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by elly63

Yes and no.

In total, repaying the mortgage ($1.5 billion) took 30 years (same as a house) for all the facilities combined: the Olympic Village and its subsequent conversion to rental apartments, the Velodrome and its conversion to the Biodôme, and the Stadium and adjacent Sports Centre. Soooo... it's this



+ this



+ this





refurbished to this



+ this



= 1.5 billion

Not sure if the Rowing and Canoe Basin at Parc Jean Drapeau and work on the Expo site were included in that as well (tks Airboy).

Canada doesn't really have that many examples of unabashedly daring architecture on this large a scale.

[Welkin]

Originally Posted by elly63

Canadians (aside from those going to the stadiums) don't have much interest in MLS, that is a different thing from not having an interest in soccer. Stadiums would be full and ratings high, the WWC proved that and we have a history of supporting big events. Now whether there is the stomach in this country to pay for it I don't know but I think the present Liberal government would support it, as it ties into the multicultural crap that the Trudeaus pere et fils push. Don't think it would be too hard to get sponsors as well.

Canadians have a passing interest in soccer. Sure the kids play it, but 20 of our 25 largest cities don't even have a professional team. London, UK has 14 professional teams. They love soccer, we have a passing interest. Oh I am sure we could put on a tournament, but why when it is really not our thing. Why spend billions and billions on white elephant stadiums and infrastructure when again it really is just not our thing. If you gave FIFA (those money grubbing trolls) the option between THF with temporary bleachers or At &T Stadium in Dallas with 100,000 seats and luxury boxes galore, which would you choose? Commonwealth Stadium vs the new multi-billion dollar LA Rams Stadium. Some dink stadium in Halifax vs Atlanta's new billion+ dollar stadium. Get my point? For those of us who enjoy soccer, having the World Cup played down in the States is a Godsend. Unlike Qatar or Russia, it is right next door and the Americans get to clean up after the party. We get to be the guests.

[Oilkountry]

My advice for the big O is to gut it and build a 30,000 seat CFL stadium inside of the shell, Get the als back in it and design in the the Impacts big games too like BC place. it would probably cost the same as renovating it when you think about it. I think the hardest part would be convincing the als to leave molson

[mistercorporate]

5 of our top 20 city-regions contain a majority of Canada's population and all have professional soccer teams. Heres an article from today:

A random Canadian mens national soccer team qualifier attracts 50,000 sales and only 5000 tickets left with a couple days to go. A sellout is projected. Ticket purchases were limited to people within Canadian postal codes to ensure a complete home crowd advantage. Yeah, Canadians dont care about soccer...

http://www.metronews.ca/news/vancouv...nd-mexico.html

[cjones2451]

Originally Posted by Oilkountry

My advice for the big O is to gut it and build a 30,000 seat CFL stadium inside of the shell, Get the als back in it and design in the the Impacts big games too like BC place. it would probably cost the same as renovating it when you think about it. I think the hardest part would be convincing the als to leave molson

Biggest Issue I have heard (besides the obvious) is the location. It is on a Metro line, but Montrealers want to be Downtown. From the times I was there, it is a European atmosphere which means many people want to go out after and eat and drink and that happens DT. I do not think the Als want to go there other than the occasional playoff game

[esquire]

^ Agreed. The Als have something that works, why would they go back to the Big O now?

[Welkin]

Originally Posted by mistercorporate

5 of our top 20 city-regions contain a majority of Canada's population and all have professional soccer teams. Heres an article from today:

A random Canadian mens national soccer team qualifier attracts 50,000 sales and only 5000 tickets left with a couple days to go. A sellout is projected. Ticket purchases were limited to people within Canadian postal codes to ensure a complete home crowd advantage. Yeah, Canadians dont care about soccer...

http://www.metronews.ca/news/vancouv...nd-mexico.html

I didn't say some Canadians don't care about soccer. It is just that they care more for hockey, basketball and football. I'll give you that some do care some for soccer, but we don't care enough to have our own domestic league. Did you know Trinidad and Tobago have a domestic league? A whole league and not just a team. We don't care enough for professional teams in 20 of of 25 largest cities. We don't care enough for professional teams in major cities like Calgary or Winnipeg (which do have professional hockey teams because we do care more for hockey). The English love soccer. In just their first five league levels they have 116 professional teams. We have 5. Yeah we love soccer, right! Canadians don't love soccer. A small percentage of Canadians are crazy about soccer (I am one of those, a Blizzard fan from way back). There are enough fans to fill a 50,000 stadium no doubt, but not enough for big TV ratings or to demand untold billions to be spent by taxpayers so that we can host a tournament.

[elly63]

Originally Posted by Welkin

I didn't say some Canadians don't care about soccer. It is just that they care more for hockey, basketball and football. I'll give you that some do care some for soccer, but we don't care enough to have our own domestic league. Did you know Trinidad and Tobago have a domestic league? A whole league and not just a team. We don't care enough for professional teams in 20 of of 25 largest cities. We don't care enough for professional teams in major cities like Calgary or Winnipeg (which do have professional hockey teams because we do care more for hockey). The English love soccer. In just their first five league levels they have 116 professional teams. We have 5. Yeah we love soccer, right! Canadians don't love soccer. A small percentage of Canadians are crazy about soccer (I am one of those, a Blizzard fan from way back). There are enough fans to fill a 50,000 stadium no doubt, but not enough for big TV ratings or to demand untold billions to be spent by taxpayers so that we can host a tournament.

I don't think I would basketball in your list, judging by the metric you used for soccer.

[isaidso]

Originally Posted by cjones2451

From the times I was there, it is a European atmosphere which means many people want to go out after and eat and drink and that happens DT.

Wanting to go out to eat and drink after a game is Euro? Has it occurred to you that it's something that city folk do. It has zero to do with Europe.

[Oilkountry]

Originally Posted by mistercorporate

5 of our top 20 city-regions contain a majority of Canada's population and all have professional soccer teams. Heres an article from today:

A random Canadian mens national soccer team qualifier attracts 50,000 sales and only 5000 tickets left with a couple days to go. A sellout is projected. Ticket purchases were limited to people within Canadian postal codes to ensure a complete home crowd advantage. Yeah, Canadians dont care about soccer...

http://www.metronews.ca/news/vancouv...nd-mexico.html

Come on MC You're reachin pretty far here. I'm not a soccer fan but i would pay big bucks to attend a damn near sold out game between canada and mexico weather it's soccer or any other national sport. Commonwealth sold 50k seats for the fifa opener vs china you think Edmonton has a big female soccer following? get real bud it's about the event more than the team/sport. Let me know how the TV rating fair. Again not saying this country doesn't have soccer fans but that was a piss poor example of it's representation.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by isaidso

Wanting to go out to eat and drink after a game is Euro? Has it occurred to you that it's something that city folk do. It has zero to do with Europe.

I just knew someone would react to that.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by elly63

I don't think I would basketball in your list, judging by the metric you used for soccer.

Yeah. The third most popular sport out of the North American biggies in Canada is definitely baseball.

[isaidso]

^^ Baseball has surprising staying power. It's deeply entrenched into our culture and has a rich history in this country. That said, its growth gets stunted by major league/minor league baseball's limited presence here. A sport can't grow and prosper unless it nurtures the sport at the professional level. To secure baseball's long term health, MLB must one day return to Montreal and eventually land in Vancouver. A country this big ideally needs more than 3 MLB teams but that's not a realistic expectation in the next 20-25 years. Montreal and Vancouver are imo.

The sport also needs to create permanent successful beach heads in cities like Halifax, Saint John, Quebec City, Calgary, etc.

I would argue that basketball is a lot closer to baseball than you're suggesting. I realize it's still a non-entity in Montreal but it's a big sport in the Maritimes and southern Ontario. It's growing nationally and will likely nudge baseball out of 3rd in the near future. Soccer is 5th or maybe even lower.

Originally Posted by Acajack

I just knew someone would react to that.

I tried so hard to keep my mouth shut, but finally succumbed.

[Prometheus]

Last week's top 25:

The Great Canadian Ratings Report: Toronto FC continues to struggle on TV

By Chris Zelkovich
16 March, 2016 11:17 AM
Eh Game

Even in a period of puzzling, and not-so-puzzling, sports television ratings drops the case of Toronto FC stands out.

It's not that the Major League Soccer team has fallen from great heights -- ratings have never been very good. But on the heels of the team's first playoff appearance last season there are renewed hopes for more success this year both on the pitch and on the screen.

So far, the numbers are simply awful.

Not only has the team's television audience failed to grow, it appears to be regressing -- and badly.

A victory over the New York Red Bulls in the season opener attracted an average audience of only 97,000 to TSN. Proving that it wasn't TSN's fault, TFC's second game against New York City FC drew a mere 62,000 viewers to Sportsnet One.

Few sports outside of weekday afternoon lumberjack competitions do worse than that.

Those ratings are substantially less than even the most marginal sports. The world short-track speed skating championships averaged 97,000 on CBC Sunday. The Canadian cross-country ski tour lured an average of 89,000 to their couches that day.

While MLS ratings have never been strong, Toronto FC appears to be the dead weight that's dragging things down for the league. The season opener between Montreal and Vancouver, for example, averaged 205,000 viewers -- a respectable if not spectacular number. TFC, meanwhile, hasn't cracked TV's version of the Mendoza Line this season.

While TFC is not alone in suffering viewer loss -- outside of the Toronto Blue Jays, everybody seems to be struggling -- it was never in a position to withstand much audience leakage.

And even thought the MLS version of soccer has never really caught on in Canada, it's hard to understand why TFC is doing so poorly on television. The team does well at the gate, which shows that there is some interest. It's owned in part by the two sports networks so gets plenty of promotion.

Maybe, because it appeals to a younger audience, it suffers from migration to the Internet. Or maybe the team's audience consists of those who pay to get in.

Either way, the team needs to figure out why it's Canada's most unloved team.

While TFC failed to attract much interest, the Brier had a pretty good final weekend.

After seeing audiences drop on its first weekend, the Brier bounced back and basically matched the ratings from the 2015 finale.

In this age, that's a victory.


Here are the most-watched sports events on English-language television over the past weekend, according to Numeris overnight ratings:

1. NHL, Wild-Habs/Leafs-Sens, Saturday, CBC-Sportsnet-City: 1,360,000

2. Curling, Brier final, Sunday, TSN: 1,162,000

3. Curling, Brier semifinal, Saturday, TSN: 842,000

4. Curling, Brier Page playoff 1-2, Friday, TSN: 811,000

5. Curling, Brier bronze medal final, Sunday, TSN: 754,000

6. NHL, Coyotes-Oilers/Preds-Canucks, Saturday, CBC-Sportsnet: 746,000

7. Curling, Brier Page playoff 3-4. Saturday, TSN: 648,000

8. NHL, Leafs at Red Wings, Sunday, Sportsnet: 524,000

9. Curling, Brier Draw 17, Friday, TSN: 381,000

10. PGA, Valspar Championship final round, Sunday, Global: 361,000

11. MLB, Rays vs. Blue Jays, Sunday, Sportsnet: 319,000

12. Auto racing, NASCAR Good Sam 500, Sunday, TSN: 230,000

13. MLB, Red Sox vs. Blue Jays, Friday, Sportsnet: 226,000

14. NBA, Heat at Raptors, Saturday, Sportsnet One: 185,000

15. Curling, Brier tiebreaker, Friday, TSN: 181,000

16. NHL, Blackhawks at Stars, Friday, Sportsnet East, Ontario, Pacific: 165,000

17. NHL, Rangers at Red Wings, Saturday, Sportsnet: 167,000

18. PGA, Valspar Championship third round, Saturday, Global: 159,000

19. NHL, Islanders at Bruins, Saturday, Sportsnet One: 156,000

20. NHL, Coyotes at Flames, Friday, Sportsnet West: 128,000

20. NHL, Penguins at Rangers, Sunday, Sportsnet One: 128,000

22. Rugby, World Rugby 7s, Saturday, TSN: 127,000

23. Skiing, Canadian men's 30k skiathlon, Saturday, CBC: 121,000

24. Soccer, Manchester City at Norwich, Saturday, TSN: 113,000

25. Soccer, Southampton at Stoke City, Saturday, TSN: 111,000

Source: https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/blogs/eh...GlvbnM-;_ylv=3

[Mister F]

Originally Posted by isaidso

^^ Baseball has surprising staying power. It's deeply entrenched into our culture and has a rich history in this country. That said, its growth gets stunted by major league/minor league baseball's limited presence here. A sport can't grow and prosper unless it nurtures the sport at the professional level. To secure baseball's long term health, MLB must one day return to Montreal and eventually land in Vancouver. A country this big ideally needs more than 3 MLB teams but that's not a realistic expectation in the next 20-25 years. Montreal and Vancouver are imo.

The sport also needs to create permanent successful beach heads in cities like Halifax, Saint John, Quebec City, Calgary, etc.

I would argue that basketball is a lot closer to baseball than you're suggesting. I realize it's still a non-entity in Montreal but it's a big sport in the Maritimes and southern Ontario. It's growing nationally and will likely nudge baseball out of 3rd in the near future. Soccer is 5th or maybe even lower.



I tried so hard to keep my mouth shut, but finally succumbed.

There will never be 3 MLB teams in Canada, let alone more than that. MLB is an American league that just happens to have expanded into a foreign country. The only way that Canada will have more professional baseball teams is if we have our own baseball league. And given our habit of piggybacking off of American sports leagues, that's not too likely.

[MonctonRad]

Baseball's biggest problem in Canada is that it is a summer sport, and since we are a country with a badly truncated summer, this blunts the ability of this particular sport to flourish and grow.........

I believe that baseball will eventually return to Montreal. I think MLB would be supportive if a proper stadium and ownership group came to the fore. The only other possible venue for an MLB team in the country is Vancouver, but I don't think there is the will or the interest for this to happen (at least in the short term).

All other Canadian cities are out of the running, partly because they are too small and too far flung, but also for poor climatic reasons - nobody wants to have to snowblow off the ball diamond for a late October/early November World Series game.

I'm interested - Baseball has a long standing history in Ontario and Quebec as well as parts of the Maritimes. How popular is baseball (historically) in the west???

[Horus]

Re: TFC ratings

Perhaps the horticultural enthusiast wing of the RPB were too appalled and distracted by the visible outline of a baseball infield to watch the game?

[elly63]

Originally Posted by Horus

Perhaps the horticultural enthusiast wing of the RPB were too appalled and distracted by the visible outline of a baseball infield to watch the game?

"If I see any sign of a white line I'm cancelling my season tickets" or the latest now popular lament of the country's whiniest "fans" "No blue, there's too much blue"

[elly63]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Baseball's biggest problem in Canada is that it is a summer sport, and since we are a country with a badly truncated summer, this blunts the ability of this particular sport to flourish and grow.........

I'm interested - Baseball has a long standing history in Ontario and Quebec as well as parts of the Maritimes. How popular is baseball (historically) in the west???

A big issue for baseball is the same issue we had as kids, getting enough people together to play a proper game. We always played baseball derivative games as kids, scrub, flys up, 500, or just two guys having a catch. To get anywhere near playing a real game you had to have at least ten guys which was hard enough when I was a kid, impossible now in this "play date" society.

Baseball was probably more popular out west than in the east. Minor league ball flourished for a long time with teams like the Edmonton Trappers, Calgary Cannons, Winnipeg Goldeyes and the Vancouver Mounties/Canadians.

It is somewhat forgotten but one of BC Place's primary objectives was as an inducement to bring MLB to Vancouver.