Confederation Line (Stage 1) | In Service 1.0

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

Pretty well all of those stations are on the very fringes, at best, of those older mixed-use neighbourhoods, which will be "served", loosely used, only as the primary goal of shipping people between downtown offices and suburban homes. Overbrook? It only has access to the LRT via one of the most pedestrian-unfriendly environments along the whole route.

There is NOTHING here for transit circulation within the core, and apart from Rideau, NONE of the stations are oriented towards old main streets.

This is a suburban transit plan. Make no mistake about it. This is not transit for the city. It is transit for the suburbs.

There is no urban transit plan, not even, as far as I can tell, any real plan to improve bus service to, within, and between older downtown neighbourhoods. In fact, the plan is to permanently further degrade the quality of that service by splitting even more local downtown routes and forcing more transfers, because that's what the people who don't take transit have decided what people who do take transit want, need, and enjoy.

Sandy Hill has good access to Campus station, Centretown obviously has good access to the downtown stations, and Little Italy has good access to Carling station, plus Gladstone station is also in an urban area (honestly can't remember the neighbourhood name for that area! oopsies).

Yes, the routes are designed to hit the suburbs and many urban neighbourhoods are skipped or only served on their peripheries. But to say the network has no utility to urban areas is an overstatement.

[silvergate]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

Sandy Hill has good access to Campus station, Centretown obviously has good access to the downtown stations, and Little Italy has good access to Carling station, plus Gladstone station is also in an urban area (honestly can't remember the neighbourhood name for that area! oopsies).

Yes, the routes are designed to hit the suburbs and many urban neighbourhoods are skipped or only served on their peripheries. But to say the network has no utility to urban areas is an overstatement.

I'd say the Golden Triangle is better served by Campus honestly. The problem with Campus and Carling is that both stations are essentially at the edge of their built/buildable areas (South of Carling is Dows Lake, and Campus is right against Nicholas and the Canal). They're okay, but if Carling moved North a ways it would give much better access to all of Little Italy.

[McC]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

plus Gladstone station is also in an urban area (honestly can't remember the neighbourhood name for that area! oopsies).

the station would be in a DMZ neutral zone between neighborhoods.
The tracks themselves are the boundary between Little Italy/Dalhousieto the east, and Hintonburg to the west, and then the Civic Hospital neighbourhood is nearby to the southwest.

[Kitchissippi]

With 10 more metres of excavation across the street, they could easily link the Rideau Centre with the Bay's basement!

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

Here are the downtown stations and their walk-radii.

There is very little residential area in any of those circles:

http://ottawa.ca/calendar/ottawa/citycou.../ACS2009-ICS-PGM-0214_files/image043.jpg

Pimisi station is ignored on the map, West of Lyon is mostly residential, South of Gloucester is mostly residential, the Rideau Station is further east and would now pick up a lot of condos in Lowertown and Sandy Hill. This is also high density residential, so there are a lot of people living in those catchments.

Also, I think the catchment for rapid transit for most people is more than six blocks; most people living North of Maclaren, East of Metcalfe, South of St Patrick or West of Nelson would be within a 10 minute walk of a station, as would most of Sandy Hill.

I guess a different routing (say under Laurier or Somerset) would have picked up more centretown residents, but would have lost more lowertown residents and removed key attractions such as the Rideau Centre and Byward Market. Any possible routing is going to involve tradeoffs.

[J.OT13]

Although the central city will be better served than what it is today with better frequency, higher capacity, highly improved stations and a more comfortable ride but, other than the two new stations between Dominion and Lincoln Fields (thanks to the NCC for categorically refusing to use the parkway) and Gladstone, the current plan doesn't add any additional catchment than the current Transitway. As motioned before, this is a suburban-centric plan. Improvements for city dwellers is purely coincidental.

In my opinion, a BRT tunnel would have sufficed for suburban transit. The other 4 billion should have been invested in the Bank-Rideau-Montreal subway.

[FFX-ME]

BRT tunnels are significantly more expensive than LRT tunnels due to the need for better ventillation. In the long run this approach is most cost-effective,

[rocketphish]

Construction Update
Week of March 14

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Formwork and rebar installations on L-walls in Lyon Station cavern

Lyon Station

In Lyon Station cavern, crews install drainage, rebar and formwork for the L-walls, and pour concrete for the foundation slab.

In the running tunnel between Lyon and Parliament stations, crews complete rebar installation and begin pouring concrete as part of tunnel arch final lining work.

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Crews spray shotcrete as part of support activities in Parliament Station cavern

Parliament Station

In Parliament Station cavern, Jawbreaker continues mining the south bench. In the running tunnel, excavation continues east, along with tunnel support activities such as rock bolt installation and shotcrete.

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Excavation progress in Rideau Station cavern

Rideau Station

In Rideau Station cavern, Crocodile Rouge continues to excavate the central pillar.

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Excavation at Rideau Station west entrance

Downtown Integrated Stations and Entrances – Lyon, Parliament and Rideau Stations

Lyon Station west entrance: crews continue hoe ramming operations and begin drilling rock bolts as part of support activities. At the HVAC shaft, hoe ramming and excavation occur. At the west vent shaft, hoarding installation continues, along with piling.

Lyon Station east entrance: crews install rebar and pour columns. Mechanical work also continues.

Parliament Station west entrance: on the ground level, crews install rebar, formwork and pour beams for the stairs. At the parking levels, crews continue to install rebar and formwork as part of escalator work.

Parliament Station east entrance: demolition and removals occur. At the concourse level, crews pour concrete piers and complete column reinforcement.

Traffic restrictions on Queen and O’Connor streets switch to the west side of O’Connor Street.

Rideau Station east entrance: hoe ramming and material removals are ongoing.

Rideau Station west entrance: crews continue excavating and installing wire mesh and shotcrete. Piling and shoring activities are ongoing on the north side of Rideau Street, part of west vent shaft work.

Traffic restrictions on Rideau Street remain in effect.

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Walls are going up at Tremblay Station

Tunney’s Pasture, Pimisi, Hurdman, Tremblay, St-Laurent, Cyrville and Blair Stations

Tunney’s Pasture Station: crews continue mobilizing and begin excavating, part of temporary bus loop construction.

Pimisi Station: initial mobilization continues, along with excavation.

Hurdman Station: crews begin installing the mud slab for grade beams and continue excavating. Underground electrical and plumbing installations are ongoing as part of station and permanent bus loop construction.

Tremblay Station: crews pour the walls, footings and stairwell, install rebar on the platform walls and continue rough-ins and plumbing work. Crews install granular at the west ring road at VIA Rail Station.

St-Laurent Station: crews finalize formwork for the suspended slab and begin pouring grade beams and slabs. Work on the plenum, backfilling, excavation and rebar installations continue.

Cyrville Station: crews continue installing structural steel, forming stairs and pouring walls at
Cyrville Bridge.

Blair Station: structural steel installation, waterproofing, backfilling and platform pours are ongoing. Crews remove the RSS wall.

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Crews complete formwork and prepare to pour the deck at the Booth Street Bridge

Guideway– Booth Street Bridge, uOttawa, Tremblay, Hurdman Station

Booth Street Bridge: crews begin preparations to pour the deck.

uOttawa Station: Investigative probe work occurs this week on Mann Avenue.

Hurdman Station Elevated Guideway: crews begin preliminary work to form the deck.

Tremblay Station: crews strip the formwork and begin RSS wall construction along the D-Ring road east at VIA Rail Station.

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Upcoming Construction Activities

The following construction activities are scheduled to occur:

In the coming weeks:

• Watermain work near St-Laurent Station.

In the coming months:

• Tunney’s Pasture Station construction.
• Bayview Station preliminary construction.
• Pimisi Station construction.
• Excavation of the ramp at West Portal.
• Transitway service adjustment from Lees to Laurier stations.
• uOttawa Station construction.
• Mann Avenue Bridge rehabilitation.
• Lees Station construction.
• Guideway and trackwork along the alignment.

http://www.ligneconfederationline.ca/construction/construction-update-64/

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

The central city will be better served than what it is today with better frequency, higher capacity, highly improved stations and a more comfortable ride but, other than the two new stations between Dominion and Lincoln Fields (thanks to the NCC for categorically refusing to use the parkway) and Gladstone, it doesn't have any additional catchment than the current Transitway. As motioned before, this is a suburban-centric plan. Improvements for city dwellers is purely coincidental.

In my opinion, a BRT tunnel would have sufficed for suburban transit. The other 4 billion should have been invested in the Bank-Rideau-Montreal subway.

A BRT tunnel wouldn't have been a good solution. BRT costs more to operate than LRT does and as volumes get higher, this difference only gets more dramatic. So continuing to use BRT as the bulk of commuter traffic would have ultimately starved the transit system of more operational dollars over time.

Plus, even the BRT tunnel would hit a capacity wall; it would be overcrowded within about 20 years of opening, whereas LRT can provide adequate capacity beyond all projectable timelines.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by FFX-ME

BRT tunnels are significantly more expensive than LRT tunnels due to the need for better ventillation. In the long run this approach is most cost-effective,

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

A BRT tunnel wouldn't have been a good solution. BRT costs more to operate than LRT does and as volumes get higher, this difference only gets more dramatic. So continuing to use BRT as the bulk of commuter traffic would have ultimately starved the transit system of more operational dollars over time.

Plus, even the BRT tunnel would hit a capacity wall; it would be overcrowded within about 20 years of opening, whereas LRT can provide adequate capacity beyond all projectable timelines.

Certainly wouldn't be an ideal solution, but my argument is by spending a billion dollars on the BRT tunnel and reserving the other 4 billion for the subway we would be building brand new, true urban rapid transit and greatly expand the catchment area and encourage max density within the pre-war city instead of what we are currently doing, which is spending every dime we have on ripping out what we have and rebuilding on the same foot print, adding next to nothing in terms of area served.

That of course would be a much more feasible solution if a. they would have built the bus tunnel as planned in the early 90s or b. they would have built the Transitway as is, but with LRT technology instead, so that only the Downtown and Westboro tunnels would be needed today (about a billion for both).

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by acottawa

Pimisi station is ignored on the map, West of Lyon is mostly residential, South of Gloucester is mostly residential, the Rideau Station is further east and would now pick up a lot of condos in Lowertown and Sandy Hill. This is also high density residential, so there are a lot of people living in those catchments.

Also, I think the catchment for rapid transit for most people is more than six blocks; most people living North of Maclaren, East of Metcalfe, South of St Patrick or West of Nelson would be within a 10 minute walk of a station, as would most of Sandy Hill.

I guess a different routing (say under Laurier or Somerset) would have picked up more centretown residents, but would have lost more lowertown residents and removed key attractions such as the Rideau Centre and Byward Market. Any possible routing is going to involve tradeoffs.

And any possible routing in Ottawa - current and planned - is aimed primarily at moving suburbanits (not urbanites) and along the cheapest path of least resistance, so we have rapid transit along the Queensway and the river, rather than where more people actually live, work, or both.

To the extent that downtown residents are served by the Suburb of Ottawa transit plan, it is (a) entirely by accident, and (b) in such a way that it makes it easier for a body to commute from a central neighbourhood to a suburban one, than from one central neighbourhood to another. And, with palnning and budget decisions now locked in, this is not going to change any time this century. Downtown residents are getting the crap end of the transit stick, and will continue to get it, until at least the 22nd century. ANd probably longer, given how Ottawa's planning and economic decisions are entrneching the power and influence of the suburbs.

I do not know of any other large Canadian city so eager to become a suburb of itself.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

The central city will be better served than what it is today with better frequency, higher capacity, highly improved stations and a more comfortable ride

... as long as your origin or destination is not in the central city itself.


There arfe very few origin-destination pairs within the central city that will be improved by this suburban transit plan. In fact, with the city's newly-renewed fetish for splitting central routes, things are about to get even worse, post-2018, for local trips within the core.

Enjoy our taxes, Orleans.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

... as long as your origin or destination is not in the central city itself.


There arfe very few origin-destination pairs within the central city that will be improved by this suburban transit plan. In fact, with the city's newly-renewed fetish for splitting central routes, things are about to get even worse, post-2018, for local trips within the core.

Enjoy our taxes, Orleans.

Though I completely agree that it does very little for the urban commuter, the plan doesn't even add much to the suburban commuter either, other than a little more space (and one extra transfer).

The sole raison d'être of the LRT plan is to increase potential capacity for the suburban commute. 5 years and 2.2 billion dollars (and an additional 3 billion by 2022) and the capacity won't have increased one bit.

[swimmer_spe]

I always find it funny when people whine that the city build along a cheaper route, but heaven forbid they raise your taxes to pay for that more expensive route.

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

... as long as your origin or destination is not in the central city itself.


There arfe very few origin-destination pairs within the central city that will be improved by this suburban transit plan. In fact, with the city's newly-renewed fetish for splitting central routes, things are about to get even worse, post-2018, for local trips within the core.

Enjoy our taxes, Orleans.

What kind of urban to urban routes would you have hoped would be improved? Given the short distances and larges share of bikers and walkers doesn't seem to make much sense to focuse on these routes. Let's put costs aside a Bank street subway would shorten the Glebe -Centretown transit commute from what 15 minutes to 12 for example?

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

(b) in such a way that it makes it easier for a body to commute from a central neighbourhood to a suburban one, than from one central neighbourhood to another.

What else are you going to use rapid transit for? People who want to get around their own neighbourhood walk, bike or take a bus. That's the same everywhere in the world (unless there happens to be a legacy 19th century streetcar system in which case they take a streetcar that acts like a bus).

Central Ottawa has no train station, no full service hospital (or 1 depending on how you count), no theatre showing current movies, 1 (of 4) postsecondary institution, and a fairly limited selection of retail. Also, most jobs (including government jobs) are located outside the core. Transit to the suburbs or other urban areas is a pretty useful thing for urban residents.

Yes, keeping cost down is an issue (mostly because the province massively underfunds transit here compared to the GTA) so there are fewer tunnels under streets than local residents would prefer and a lot of pressure to reuse existing corridors.

And yes most of the users of rapid transit live in suburbs, but 80-90% of the city's population is in the suburbs; no city with an elected government is going to build a transit system that ignores 90% of the population and have any hope of getting re-elected (see Chiarelli, Bob).

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

A BRT tunnel wouldn't have been a good solution. BRT costs more to operate than LRT does and as volumes get higher, this difference only gets more dramatic. So continuing to use BRT as the bulk of commuter traffic would have ultimately starved the transit system of more operational dollars over time.

Plus, even the BRT tunnel would hit a capacity wall; it would be overcrowded within about 20 years of opening, whereas LRT can provide adequate capacity beyond all projectable timelines.

Just think of this way, we are spending $5B+ on just Phase 1 and 2 alone. That will cover an awful lot of operational costs. Even a $50M annual saving would take 100 years to pay off $5B.

And assuming that an alternative rail transit idea would be implemented, not only would we get some of those operational costs back in doing so, but we would still be transferring some of the ridership off the Transitways onto the urban rail network therefore avoiding a capacity crunch in a busway tunnel.

Furthermore, we would be building completely new rapid transit, therefore, more likely growing our ridership base. And we are not limited to using the busway tunnel for all bus routes, therefore, we would actually have more capacity than the experts think.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by FFX-ME

BRT tunnels are significantly more expensive than LRT tunnels due to the need for better ventillation. In the long run this approach is most cost-effective,

I understand that ventilation must be sufficient to handle a train on fire in the tunnel.

Is the ventilation issue overblown?

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Although the central city will be better served than what it is today with better frequency, higher capacity, highly improved stations and a more comfortable ride but, other than the two new stations between Dominion and Lincoln Fields (thanks to the NCC for categorically refusing to use the parkway) and Gladstone, the current plan doesn't add any additional catchment than the current Transitway. As motioned before, this is a suburban-centric plan. Improvements for city dwellers is purely coincidental.

In my opinion, a BRT tunnel would have sufficed for suburban transit. The other 4 billion should have been invested in the Bank-Rideau-Montreal subway.

Are you Andy Haydon? Haha!

I had made a similar conclusion a while back. Rebuilding the Transitways is an enormous expense that gives little new.

We should have completed the original busway vision and started building a completely new rail network to complement it.

This is what Bob Chiarelli was attempting to do, although he didn't address the downtown issue and that was his downfall.

A complementary rail network would have generated new ridership and taken pressure off the Transitways where they were most congested.

As it stands, there is little money to improve the urban transit network inside the Greenbelt. We are bleeding it all off to the Confederation Line.

When is the last time we heard anything about the Baseline busway? And the Montreal Road and Carling Avenue routes have either been permanently removed or indefinitely postponed.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

I understand that ventilation must be sufficient to handle a train on fire in the tunnel.

Is the ventilation issue overblown?

The air quality standards for a fire may be different from the air quality standards for day-to-day use.

St Laurent Station (which had a fairly small enclosed portion) had giant fans that looked like they came off a jumbo jet. The vent buildings for the big dig in Boston are enormous.