PHILADELPHIA | Highrise Development Thread IX

[Flyers2001]

Originally Posted by New2Fishtown

It will be interesting to watch if and how tenants diversify in the Market East office market. This area's historically catered to government and lower-rent tenants, but the past few years have seen Penn Mutual (now One Washington Sq), the Curtis, Public Ledger, Dow, the Bourse, 325 Chestnut, and 400 Market all change hands, most with an eye toward repositioning, some of which we've already seen with the IBG and La Colombe, and some of which is announced and forthcoming. Brickstone seems to be stepping up their game at 701 as well with the facade improvements and signage and planned public improvements. As the quality of the office stock improves and as the area gathers more amenities, one would think that it will begin to appeal to a wider array of users, particularly as space remains tight west of Broad Street.

At 701, the building and surrounds are improving rather quickly. This goes hand in hand with the garage takeover by the PPA a couple years ago. The improvements in the garage alone is huge. The interior of the Lit Brothers has started construction including a huge makeover to their interior "courtyard". Much needed upgrades to their escalators and Elevators.

[jjv007]

From Brandywine's Instagram Page:

[IMG]C:\Users\verse\Pictures\Screenshots[/IMG]

The Philadelphia #30thStreet Station District Plan is a joint planning effort to create a single, integrated vision for the area surrounding 30th St. as a dynamic neighborhood anchored by a world-class #transportation hub. The Project Team will host a public open house on March 16th at 30th St. in the North waiting room from 4-7PM. This will be a great opportunity for the public to learn more about the project by interacting with the Project Team to view refined design ideas and provide input!

[jjv007]

Well the accompanying image didn't post above, but the picture that was posted on their page to go with the above write-up was the same one from Post #10698 on this thread.

[TempleGuy1000]

Originally Posted by jjv007

Well the accompanying image didn't post above, but the picture that was posted on their page to go with the above write-up was the same one from Post #10698 on this thread.

just an fyi you used a local file path from your computer instead of a static web address. You need to use a file sharing site like imgur or flickr. Just make an account, upload photo, find static link which will end in .jpg, .png, etc., and paste it into the [img] tags

[summersm343]

Sunoco begins first exports of Marcellus Shale ethane via Marcus Hook terminal

Read more at http://www.philly.com/philly/business/en...s_Hook_terminal.html#5IDx7ZsEX8FtEMDy.99

[3rd&Brown]

Originally Posted by 1487

who said they aren't cutting other places? Look at what's happening in Delaware with Dupont and layoffs due to the company splitting. This is going on all over and low taxes won't stop it.

Our job growth numbers compared to other cities say they're cutting here not in other places.

The other major cities are growing employment at an annualized rate of 2.8% last I read. We're growing it at 1.3%.

[Cro Burnham]

Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown

Our job growth numbers compared to other cities say they're cutting here not in other places.

The other major cities are growing employment at an annualized rate of 2.8% last I read. We're growing it at 1.3%.

The 1487 perspective on fiscal waste and over-taxation in Philadelphia "*ehrm* move along, nothing to see here . . . .".

Why exactly? Nobody knows for sure. Maybe it's fun to be a maverick without a cause.

[summersm343]

Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown

Our job growth numbers compared to other cities say they're cutting here not in other places.

The other major cities are growing employment at an annualized rate of 2.8% last I read. We're growing it at 1.3%.

Correct. PA and Philly are both not business friendly. Both the state and the city need to pass more business friendly taxes ASAP. Philly is losing ground on several cities ahead and behind it including Boston, San Francisco, Seattle, Miami, Phoenix, Houston, Dallas, Washington DC, etc.

No reason Philly shouldn't be growing at the same clip of some of these cities.

If anything, Philadelphia should be growing at the same clip as Boston.

[summersm343]

Asian travel writers association names Phila. best destination for heritage & culture

http://www.bizjournals.com/philadelphia/...delphia-best-heritage-culture-award.html

[Outta here]

Originally Posted by summersm343

Correct. PA and Philly are both not business friendly. Both the state and the city need to pass more business friendly taxes ASAP. Philly is losing ground on several cities ahead and behind it including Boston, San Francisco, Seattle, Miami, Phoenix, Houston, Dallas, Washington DC, etc.

No reason Philly shouldn't be growing at the same clip of some of these cities.

If anything, Philadelphia should be growing at the same clip as Boston.

Ok , I agree with that , so then whats all the hoopla about building skyscrapers and
supertalls ( i.e. U City ) if there is no career positions to fill them .

[jjv007]

Originally Posted by summersm343

Correct. PA and Philly are both not business friendly. Both the state and the city need to pass more business friendly taxes ASAP. Philly is losing ground on several cities ahead and behind it including Boston, San Francisco, Seattle, Miami, Phoenix, Houston, Dallas, Washington DC, etc.

No reason Philly shouldn't be growing at the same clip of some of these cities.

If anything, Philadelphia should be growing at the same clip as Boston.

Which cities of those you mentioned do you think are currently ahead of Philly, economically speaking?

[summersm343]

Originally Posted by jjv007

Which cities of those you mentioned do you think are currently ahead of Philly, economically speaking?

I don't want to start a City V. City battle... but we have to look realistically sometimes.

San Francisco has already surpassed Philadelphia in GDP despite being a smaller city and MSA. Boston is about to surpass Philadelphia in GDP. Dallas and Houston and DC are now far ahead in Philadelphia in GDP. Philadelphia was #4 in GDP output at the 2000 census, it's now #8.

MSA (metro areas) populations - Philadelphia was #4 at the 2000 census, it's now #6. It's also about to be surpassed by Washington DC, Miami and Atlanta metro areas which are all growing 3 times faster than Philadelphia.

CSA (combined areas) populations - Philadelphia was #7, it's now #8 and about to be passed by Houston CSA.

City population - as we all know, Philadelphia is currently #5, but about to be surpassed by Phoenix any year now and drop to #6. It will also eventually be surpassed by San Antonio, San Diego and Dallas.

PA State and Philly City lawmakers need to wake the hell up, and pass more business friendly taxes to get the economy going, pump more jobs into the city and area, and get the population growing faster.

More jobs also equal less poverty, unemployment, and eventually less crime, better schools, and a better educated population.

[jjv007]

Originally Posted by summersm343

I don't want to start a City V. City battle... but we have to look realistically sometimes.

San Francisco has already surpassed Philadelphia in GDP despite being a smaller city and MSA. Boston is about to surpass Philadelphia in GDP. Dallas and Houston and DC are now far ahead in Philadelphia in GDP. Philadelphia was #4 in GDP output at the 2000 census, it's now #8.

MSA (metro areas) populations - Philadelphia was #4 at the 2000 census, it's now #6. It's also about to be surpassed by Washington DC, Miami and Atlanta metro areas which are all growing 3 times faster than Philadelphia.

CSA (combined areas) populations - Philadelphia was #7, it's now #8 and about to be passed by Houston CSA.

City population - as we all know, Philadelphia is currently #5, but about to be surpassed by Phoenix any year now and drop to #6. It will also eventually be surpassed by San Antonio, San Diego and Dallas.

PA State and Philly City lawmakers need to wake the hell up, and pass more business friendly taxes to get the economy going, pump more jobs into the city and area, and get the population growing faster.

More jobs also equal less poverty, unemployment, and eventually less crime, better schools, and a better educated population.

Great analysis, Summers. I think part of the reason for Philly being surpassed in several areas is that currently it's still somewhat in the process of reversing its decades-long decline, while several of the other cities never had the decline to begin with so are just continuing to push forward at high rates.
I still believe though that Philly can join and even re-surpass some of these cities if the city and state governments get their acts together and make the necessary changes to spark increased progress in the city and region.

[jjv007]

I also think the next several years are extremely crucial because America's 250th anniversary is coming up in 10 years and if Philly can make a claim (rightfully so) to host a prolonged set of events to showcase the country and city, it would be a tremendous opportunity to "display" the city to the world.
There are several initiatives with this goal in mind and if solid development continues and problems such as the city tax structure are fixed (among several others), the anniversary celebration could be a great springboard to propel Philly to new heights.

[3rd&Brown]

Originally Posted by jjv007

Which cities of those you mentioned do you think are currently ahead of Philly, economically speaking?

In terms of growth? All of them.

This isn't hypothetical stuff. It's easy to research.

The growth in the skyline that is happening (in spite of this) is related to a few factors:

1. Comcast (obviously). Without them we'd be dead in the water.

2. Conversion of existing office buildings to residential space. To some extent this happens everywhere, but here it's disproportionate. For chrissakes, Liberty Two has condominiums in it. Let's not kid ourselves. That's not because of the strength of residential demand...it's due to the dearth of office demand.

3. The inversion of dwelling preference in the region. We've always had a strong downtown...but let's face it...for a very long time, the animosity of many suburbanites to Philadelphia kept them from considering Philadelphia as a place to call home. Thankfully, that's fading, and fast...but it is causing a sort of inversion in the residential market where Philadelphia is catching up to other regions with strong downtown cores in terms of the proportion of building permits in town versus out of town. I think our residential market is growing (and the associated towers in the skyline) disproportionately to the economic growth because of this correction, if you will.

4. Lasty, Hotels. The leisure market here if finally getting noticed and generating the kind of demand in room nights that you'd expect for a city of our caliber. Again, this is an area where we're playing catch up, particularly in comparison to other cities.

[iheartphilly]

2015 PA State GDP is over 700 billion according to the US Dept. of Commerce. I think more than half of this GDP comes from the Philadelphia MSA. We rank # 6 out of the whole country. Only CA, TX, NY, FL, IL have higher GDP than we do.

A few big companies are in the process of moving to Camden. That should help our numbers for the Philly MSA. Those companies in the Navy Yard help too. And, we are starting to build up and build out the Liquefied Natural Gas industry in Marcus Hook. Look for future PA and Philly GDP numbers to go up in the future. Also, depending on how many new jobs Comcast can bring in with CITC and other tech companies trying to get revenue from Comcast, that should help too. We have many economic positives going on right now that will eventually show up in the statistics in the next few years.

[Milksteak]

Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown

3. The inversion of dwelling preference in the region. We've always had a strong downtown...but let's face it...for a very long time, the animosity of many suburbanites to Philadelphia kept them from considering Philadelphia as a place to call home. Thankfully, that's fading, and fast...but it is causing a sort of inversion in the residential market where Philadelphia is catching up to other regions with strong downtown cores in terms of the proportion of building permits in town versus out of town. I think our residential market is growing (and the associated towers in the skyline) disproportionately to the economic growth because of this correction, if you will.

This is so true...I work in the burbs and half of the people at my company pull the reverse commute. When I lived in the city I was driving 50 miles one way to a town near Princeton NJ (different company), I did this by choice since I love Philly. That being said, something needs to be done about the business environment in the city so the people living in the city can work in the city. Imagine the cutdown on traffic alone!

[1487]

Originally Posted by Milksteak

This is so true...I work in the burbs and half of the people at my company pull the reverse commute. When I lived in the city I was driving 50 miles one way to a town near Princeton NJ (different company), I did this by choice since I love Philly. That being said, something needs to be done about the business environment in the city so the people living in the city can work in the city. Imagine the cutdown on traffic alone!

Number of jobs in the city is increasing and office vacancy rates are lower than the suburbs. Those are the facts. 40 years of decline can't be reversed overnight.

Philly (or any NE city) will never be the same as the sunbelt. Many people are looking for cheaper housing, newer housing, lower density and better weather. The people I know who have moved South never mention taxes as a reason- they often mention that you can get newer, larger single family house for less money than anywhere in this region. This has been the trend for decades and GENERALLY speaking the NE US as well as the midwest are growing slowly. None of the fastest growing states and only a tiny fraction of the fastest growing cities are anywhere other than the South or West. This isn't news and nor is this a Philly specific issue. In addition, cities in Texas and Florida benefit from proximity to Mexico and Latin America which make both states (Arizona can probably be included as well) primary targets for incoming immigrants.

[Milksteak]

Originally Posted by 1487

Number of jobs in the city is increasing and office vacancy rates are lower than the suburbs. Those are the facts. 40 years of decline can't be reversed overnight.

I understand that, but Philly could be much more business friendly...those are the facts. I also was in no way comparing us to other regions of the country, but if you want to look at it that way...we should be on par with Boston in terms of job growth, and we aren't.

[VikingDutchman]

I've always said that Philly ought to chart a different course for success among US cities. Yes we need to work out our tax system (I'm not necessarily sure we need lower taxes, but we definitely need smarter taxes).

I would also love it if Philly could find a way to leverage its historical assets, large core city population (compared to say, Boston or San Francisco), and relatively affordable housing to make a new model. Metropolitan administrative governance (I hate the title, but how awesome would it be to get a "Lord Mayor", as they have in London and some former British colonies), pro-growth property development zoning and policies, a land tax, an aggressive play to lever our existing assets to move away from autocentricity, etc...

The problem with cities like Boston and San Francisco is that they've fallen so far down the unaffordability trap it's difficult to see how they could ever climb out of it. I say this as someone who lives now in Boston (well, Somerville). And that just gums up the whole framework of a city. Boston is growing now, but it's going to hit a wall in the near future because it's wealthy grump residents are going to prevent any progress. If you think working class folks in Philly neighborhoods are resistant to development, you haven't seen nothing yet. Just look at NY, where while Bloomberg trying to upzone mixed-income Brooklyn neighborhoods got all the press while the successful campaigns of wealthy folks in parts of Manhattan to actually downzone their highly in demand neighborhoods actually saw the totally zoned 'capacity' as it were of the city decline overall.

Philly could and should be an opportunity to adopt cutting edge policies that would never get past the wealthy stick-in-the-muds of NY, Boston, SF, etc... But for that to happen we'd need more visionary leadership in City Hall, a council that put the city before itself, un-gerrymandered state legislative districts, and probably a change in Washington as well.

I know, ridiculous. But a man can dream!