Confederation Line (Stage 1) | In Service 1.0

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by Aylmer

Well I don't know about a shiny factor - there are dozens of cities which already have basically the same vehicles (from Jerusalem to Melbourne via Basel) and there are are yet dozens more which have almost the same vehicles.

This isn't a monorail or, more modernly, a hyperloop. It's a regular tech which has been used around the world for about two decades.

I've been on the system in Jerusalem before. They use trains very, very similar to what ours will be (the new Citadis Spirit model that Alstom is building for Ottawa is based on the Citadis 320 model which Jerusalem uses). They definitely fit a lot of people on them, and it's a very pleasant ride. Acceleration & braking are both as smooth as a baby's bottom.

[bikegypsy]

Originally Posted by Aylmer

Well I don't know about a shiny factor - there are dozens of cities which already have basically the same vehicles (from Jerusalem to Melbourne via Basel) and there are are yet dozens more which have almost the same vehicles.

This isn't a monorail or, more modernly, a hyperloop. It's a regular tech which has been used around the world for about two decades.

With the exception being that Ottawa's system will use these trains in a grade separated metro style system, and if I'm not mistaken, the first in the world to use low floor technology for this purpose. I personally think that it will have its advantages. Subway stations tend to make people uncomfortable because of the deep trenches. The shallow trenches for such a system will have a different effect on passengers.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by Aylmer

Well I don't know about a shiny factor - there are dozens of cities which already have basically the same vehicles (from Jerusalem to Melbourne via Basel) and there are are yet dozens more which have almost the same vehicles.

This isn't a monorail or, more modernly, a hyperloop. It's a regular tech which has been used around the world for about two decades.

Those are all tram/streetcar systems. They run along streets so low-floor has an advantage of not requiring giant platforms (or stairs). This is a fully grade-separated system where low floors offer no advantages (except possibly a psychological advantage as you noted earlier) and several disadvantages (more obstacles, less capacity, more digging required).

Page 6-3 on this report offers an explanation on how the technology was chosen. The chosen technology only excelled in two areas (non-segregated in low density areas and fewest transfers) which unfortunately are two aspects that have been dropped from the planned system.

http://www.ligneconfederationline.ca/media/pdf/Section6_2.5MB.pdf

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by acottawa

Those are all tram/streetcar systems. They run along streets so low-floor has an advantage of not requiring giant platforms (or stairs). This is a fully grade-separated system where low floors offer no advantages (except possibly a psychological advantage as you noted earlier) and several disadvantages (more obstacles, less capacity, more digging required).

Page 6-3 on this report offers an explanation on how the technology was chosen. The chosen technology only excelled in two areas (non-segregated in low density areas and fewest transfers) which unfortunately are two aspects that have been dropped from the planned system.

http://www.ligneconfederationline.ca/media/pdf/Section6_2.5MB.pdf

Are those significant disadvantages? 'More digging required', how so?

And when they finally do the Trillium Line correctly, expect level crossings in the suburbs. We don't know what comes with Phase 3 of the Confederation Line either.

[Beedok]

So, how likely are they to deck over the Transitway trenches along Scott Street and such? Seems like it could potentially be useful real estate.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by Beedok

So, how likely are they to deck over the Transitway trenches along Scott Street and such? Seems like it could potentially be useful real estate.

Thinking back to when they did construction over the Trillium Line at Carleton, they shut the line down.

How feasible is 'decking' over the Confederation Line either along Scott Street or as part of the Lebreton proposals without shutting down service?

[Kitchissippi]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

Are those significant disadvantages? 'More digging required', how so?

And when they finally do the Trillium Line correctly, expect level crossings in the suburbs. We don't know what comes with Phase 3 of the Confederation Line either.

Having the Confederation Line branch out into non-grade separated spurs with level crossings is highly impractical. The longer the line gets, the trains will have to get longer and/or more frequent, and automation in the central section will become more critical. Level crossings will just add a factor of uncertainty and collision risk the makes keeping schedules difficult. It would be wiser for the city to have separate surface collector tram lines and keep the Confederation Line a reliable rapid line.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

Are those significant disadvantages? 'More digging required', how so?

And when they finally do the Trillium Line correctly, expect level crossings in the suburbs. We don't know what comes with Phase 3 of the Confederation Line either.

Benches for the platforms are excavated. If the platform is higher you don't have to dig as far down.

Also, the overhead wires (which aren't really necessary in the current design) require a higher tunnel.

They've removed the large platforms and rough in for connection between Trillium and Confederation. The phase 3 you're describing is probably not possible using the current infrastructure.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by Kitchissippi

Having the Confederation Line branch out into non-grade separated spurs with level crossings is highly impractical. The longer the line gets, the trains will have to get longer and/or more frequent, and automation in the central section will become more critical. Level crossings will just add a factor of uncertainty and collision risk the makes keeping schedules difficult. It would be wiser for the city to have separate surface collector tram lines and keep the Confederation Line a reliable rapid line.

So long as LRT receives absolute priority, scheduling problems should not be an issue. Running total grade separation in the suburbs where frequencies will be lower, makes it extremely expensive and contrary to plans already being made to integrate LRT into the community fabric.

If the intension is to run LRT only to a certain point and then impose transfers to local trams to go further and then impose further transfers to get to local neighbourhoods, how does this get people to use transit? This will never be competitive with automobiles.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by acottawa

Benches for the platforms are excavated. If the platform is higher you don't have to dig as far down.

Also, the overhead wires (which aren't really necessary in the current design) require a higher tunnel.

They've removed the large platforms and rough in for connection between Trillium and Confederation. The phase 3 you're describing is probably not possible using the current infrastructure.

It seems to me that low floor LRT requires smaller tunnels, because both require the same head room for passengers and then the connection to the overhead wires is the same. The difference being the distance to the tracks from the floor of the vehicle, which is less for low floor vehicles.

If there is no Phase 3, then how do we address further expansion of rapid transit in Ottawa? There is indeed a further need to Barrhaven, Kanata and south Orleans. If expandability is not an option, then this is a flaw in the plan. Certainly, Calgary's C-Train has expanded with the city with plans to add new stations particularly to the northeast, south and west at some point. I think this is a peculiar comment.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

It seems to me that low floor LRT requires smaller tunnels, because both require the same head room for passengers and then the connection to the overhead wires is the same. The difference being the distance to the tracks from the floor of the vehicle, which is less for low floor vehicles.

If there is no Phase 3, then how do we address further expansion of rapid transit in Ottawa? There is indeed a further need to Barrhaven, Kanata and south Orleans. If expandability is not an option, then this is a flaw in the plan. Certainly, Calgary's C-Train has expanded with the city with plans to add new stations particularly to the northeast, south and west at some point. I think this is a peculiar comment.

I don't know. I just know they stripped out those features to cut costs (I don't really fault the city for that, unfortunately transit projects with a 613 area code are massively underfunded compared to projects in the 416, 905 or 519).

There are very few cities that provide tram service to low density suburbs so Ottawa will probably be a typical city in that regard.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by acottawa

I don't know. I just know they stripped out those features to cut costs (I don't really fault the city for that, unfortunately transit projects with a 613 area code are massively underfunded compared to projects in the 416, 905 or 519).

There are very few cities that provide tram service to low density suburbs so Ottawa will probably be a typical city in that regard.

Calgary does, Edmonton is heading in that direction, Dallas does, Denver does, Portland does, Salt Lake City does. The exceptions being to connect to satellite cities, and the distance is more than a 5 minute drive across the Greenbelt.

The plan to go to Orleans and with supplemental funding all the way to Trim Road (their way to avoid paying for 4 laning the 174 to the city boundary) is already setting the precedent.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

We don't know what comes with Phase 3 of the Confederation Line either.

The decisions may not be final, but we can get a good idea from the Transportation Master Plan. In that we can see the:

• 2031 Network Concept
• 2031 Affordable Network (probably closer to what Phase 3 will be)
• Ultimate Network (Phase 4 and beyond)

One thing, if the Ottawa Senators move to LeBreton Flats, the priorities in the plan may change.

[MalcolmTucker]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

Calgary does, Edmonton is heading in that direction, Dallas does, Denver does, Portland does, Salt Lake City does. The exceptions being to connect to satellite cities, and the distance is more than a 5 minute drive across the Greenbelt.

The plan to go to Orleans and with supplemental funding all the way to Trim Road (their way to avoid paying for 4 laning the 174 to the city boundary) is already setting the precedent.

How long would the run be to a single station in Kanata? 9 km?

Calgary in the NW has pretty long distances between stations 2.4 km for the terminal station, and 4 km for the station that is the 'intercept' station. 9 km isn't an unreasonable distance, though it is long enough that given the frequency projected for the central sections may end up with short turning, though that is more of a maintenance issue than anything else.

I wouldn't expect the line to spur out in the suburbs though.

[rocketphish]

Construction Update
Week of February 29

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Progress on the L-wall in Lyon Station cavern

Lyon Station

Crews continue to install rebar and conduits, and complete formwork for the L-wall. Drainage and conduit installation is ongoing.

Crews prepare to pour the arch final lining in the running tunnel between Lyon and Parliament stations.

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Mining the bench in Parliament Station cavern

Parliament Station

In Parliament Station cavern, Jawbreaker completes mining the central pillar.

In the running tunnel, excavation and support activities such as rockbolt installation and shotcrete are ongoing.

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Excavation in Rideau Station cavern

Rideau Station

Crocodile Rouge continues to excavate the station cavern in drifts.

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Shoring on Rideau Street as part of Rideau Station west entrance works

Downtown Integrated Stations and Entrances – Lyon, Parliament and Rideau Stations

Lyon Station west entrance: crews continue blasting operations, followed by removals. At the HVAC shaft, line drilling takes place.

Lyon Station east entrance: crews continue installing rebar and dowels, and pour concrete. Utility work including installation of the cable tray continues.

Parliament Station west entrance: crews complete formwork and install steel at the parking levels as part of escalator work.

Parliament Station east entrance: demolitions and removals continue at the ground level. Column reinforcement occurs on the concourse level.

Traffic restrictions on Queen and O’Connor streets switch to the west side of O’Connor Street.

Rideau Station east entrance: crews continue blasting and remove materials.

Rideau Station west entrance: excavation continues, along with soil reinforcements such as wire mesh and shotcrete. Crews complete micro-piling operations. Shoring occurs on the north side of Rideau Street as part of west vent shaft works.

Traffic restrictions on Rideau Street remain in effect.

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Crews pour concrete at the operators’ building at Cyrville Station

Pimisi, Hurdman, Tremblay, St-Laurent, Cyrville and Blair Stations

Pimisi Station: crews begin initial mobilization to install caissons, part of station construction.

Hurdman Station: crews continue excavating and backfilling. Underground electrical and plumbing work occur for the station and permanent bus loop.

Tremblay Station: work on the platform, rough-ins, plumbing and concrete pours continue. Construction of the station walls are ongoing.

St-Laurent Station: crews begin pouring the mudslab for the future station and form the suspended ceilings. Rebar installation and excavation are ongoing,

Cyrville Station: crews form the stairs and begin installing structural steel. The next phase of work begins on the operators’ building.

Blair Station: crews complete formwork and finalize rebar for the slab. Installation of structural steel continues. Waterproofing, mechanical work and electrical rough-ins are ongoing.

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Vehicle assembly

Upcoming Construction Activities

The following construction activities are scheduled to occur:
• In the coming weeks:
• Tunney’s Pasture bus loop works.
• Investigative boreholes on Rideau Street.
• Deck work at the Hurdman Station elevated guideway.
• Tremblay Station at-grade work west of VIA Rail Station.
• Watermain work near St-Laurent Station.
• Structural steel erection at Cyrville and Blair stations.

In the coming months:
• Tunney’s Pasture Station preliminary works.
• Bayview Station preliminary works.
• Booth Street Bridge deck pour.
• Excavation of the ramp at West Portal.
• Transitway service adjustment from Lees to Laurier stations.
• uOttawa Station construction.
• Lees Station construction.
• Guideway and trackwork along the alignment.

http://www.ligneconfederationline.ca/construction/construction-update-62/

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker

How long would the run be to a single station in Kanata? 9 km?

Calgary in the NW has pretty long distances between stations 2.4 km for the terminal station, and 4 km for the station that is the 'intercept' station. 9 km isn't an unreasonable distance, though it is long enough that given the frequency projected for the central sections may end up with short turning, though that is more of a maintenance issue than anything else.

I wouldn't expect the line to spur out in the suburbs though.

Beyond Bayshore, there will be stations at Moodie, Eagleson and Terry Fox at least, and the corridor is being protected all the way to Stittsville.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker

How long would the run be to a single station in Kanata? 9 km?

It is about 6.5km to Eagleson, 9km to Terry Fox and 10.5 km to the Canadian Tire Centre.

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

Beyond Bayshore, there will be stations at Moodie, Eagleson and Terry Fox at least, and the corridor is being protected all the way to Stittsville.

The long term Transportation Master Plan actually shows 8 stations past Bayshore. They aren't labeled but it looks like they would be Moodie, Eagleson, Kanata Town Centre, Kanata Centrum, Terry Fox, unknown mall, Tanger Mall, and Canadian Tire Centre. Seems a bit excessive to me though.

IMHO, it shouldn't be extended to Kanata, but instead to Bells Corners using the old CPR right of way from Bayshore to near Moodie Dr. and Timm Dr, where it could connect to train service on the CN right of way.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by roger1818

It is about 6.5km to Eagleson, 9km to Terry Fox and 10.5 km to the Canadian Tire Centre.



The long term Transportation Master Plan actually shows 8 stations past Bayshore. They aren't labeled but it looks like they would be Moodie, Eagleson, Kanata Town Centre, Kanata Centrum, Terry Fox, unknown mall, Tanger Mall, and Canadian Tire Centre. Seems a bit excessive to me though.

That's 19 stops between downtown at the end of the line? I wonder what happens if people clamouring for more lrt in the suburbs actually get what they're asking for. That will be a painfully slow ride that will make people pine for the days when an express bus brought them all the way to tunneys.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by acottawa

That's 19 stops between downtown at the end of the line? I wonder what happens if people clamouring for more lrt in the suburbs actually get what they're asking for. That will be a painfully slow ride that will make people pine for the days when an express bus brought them all the way to tunneys.

Exactly! Fortunately none of the Stage 3 proposals have LRT extended past Bayshore. I'm not even convinced it should be extended past Lincoln Fields. Extending it beyond that will likely show down the commute of those in Kanata and Barhaven. Similarly in the east it shouldn't be extended past Montreal Rd and in the south it shouldn't be extended past the Airport.

Instead, an alternate plan to get people from the suburbs downtown is needed. The LRT is best for medium length commutes.

[EdFromOttawa]

Originally Posted by roger1818

Exactly! Fortunately none of the Stage 3 proposals have LRT extended past Bayshore. I'm not even convinced it should be extended past Lincoln Fields. Extending it beyond that will likely show down the commute of those in Kanata and Barhaven. Similarly in the east it shouldn't be extended past Montreal Rd and in the south it shouldn't be extended past the Airport.

Instead, an alternate plan to get people from the suburbs downtown is needed. The LRT is best for medium length commutes.

Or bring people back downtown.