The Great Canadian Transit Thread

[Aylmer]

Why would there be fewer delays or higher speeds? The Transitway is problematic not for a lack of speed or a surplus of manoeuvring room - it's a geometry and capacity: You need so many vehicles at peak to transport people that it causes bunching and delays for boarding/alighting which can stretch into the daily downtown bus jam which we all know and love. If the buses were running on guideways, the problem might actually worsen since buses which have finished alighting would have to wait for the bus in front of it to finish.

I think that the only real advantage a guided bus would confer is related to passenger comfort (no up-and-down-side-to-side). That's an important goal in itself, but I wonder if the proprietary vehicles and added maintenance cost (I assume) are really worth it when bus lanes with bulb-out bus stops could accomplish something similar with much less grief.

[1overcosc]

I've ridden a guided busway system in Haifa, Israel. The guideway runs in the median of boulevards. The acceleration/deceleration is surprisingly smooth, it almost feels like a streetcar.

Haifa is probably the champion of weird & unconventional transit. In addition to the guided busway, they also have an underground furnicular--essentially, an inclined subway. (Haifa, like Hamilton, is built into an escarpment). It's extremely short--only 2 km I think--but the route it covers is very steep so walking between the neighbourhoods it connects is very challenging, hence why it exists.

[lrt's friend]

While operational costs are important, service speed is more important.

The issues regarding Ottawa's Transitways almost entirely were related to the failure to complete the downtown link. This is where the congestion existed. Outside of downtown, there were seldom significant congestion of buses.

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

While operational costs are important, service speed is more important.

The issues regarding Ottawa's Transitways almost entirely were related to the failure to complete the downtown link. This is where the congestion existed. Outside of downtown, there were seldom significant congestion of buses.

There was also considerable congestion at major stations like Lincoln Fields, Hurdman, and Tunney's Pasture due to bus dwell times and inefficient bus flow.

[Nouvellecosse]

Originally Posted by Aylmer

I think that the only real advantage a guided bus would confer is related to passenger comfort (no up-and-down-side-to-side). That's an important goal in itself, but I wonder if the proprietary vehicles and added maintenance cost (I assume) are really worth it when bus lanes with bulb-out bus stops could accomplish something similar with much less grief.

Another advantage is that guided vehicles can be longer, which is one of the biggest advantages to guideways, which of course includes rail ways. Instead of an articulated bus being up to 18m in NA, it could be, say, 36m. Or perhaps two or three could be coupled together and driven by a single driver.

[MalcolmTucker]

Is there a guided bus way in a climate that gets snow ... Haifa once in a blue moon doesn't count.

[ssiguy]

They have had problems with some guided busways but that's because the idiots just used regular pavement instead of metal or concrete.

Bus guideways do have a lot of advantages. They don't require as wide a roadway as does a regular Transitway and much more reliable in snowy weather especially with articulates. Due to the guideways they also can take corners much faster and safer than a bus on a regular Transitway. They are much easier for boarding because the tracks allow the bus to easily enter level with the platform with just a few millimeters of distance between the platform and the bus. This makes loading faster and the bus can de/accelerate faster into the stations not having to worry about trying to align the bus and the platform.

Guided busways offer the speed of real rapid transit but due to being able to get off the track onto regular roads, they get rid of the dreaded "last mile" eliminating transfers and costly park-n-rides lots. Britain seems to be forging ahead with them aggressively like Cambridge.

[Aylmer]

Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse

Another advantage is that guided vehicles can be longer, which is one of the biggest advantages to guideways, which of course includes rail ways. Instead of an articulated bus being up to 18m in NA, it could be, say, 36m. Or perhaps two or three could be coupled together and driven by a single driver.

Sure, but then it can't leave the guideway to drive on regular streets, which is the main advantage of a bus.

[Beedok]

Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker

Is there a guided bus way in a climate that gets snow ... Haifa once in a blue moon doesn't count.

There's a couple of systems in England.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

There was also considerable congestion at major stations like Lincoln Fields, Hurdman, and Tunney's Pasture due to bus dwell times and inefficient bus flow.

I never experienced significant delays at Hurdman, and if there were, they could be addressed by improving the station design. There has been no incentive in improving station design since 2008 knowing that LRT was coming on that corridor. It will be interesting to see how the new 'Tunney's Pasture' station works. This station will have to handle a lot of passengers and buses and with Phase 2 coming, how will this further impact this station's operations or could it shutdown potentially after only months of service?

[Acajack]

The guided busway in Adelaide has a maximum speed of 100 kmh between stations. That's 20-30 kmh faster than Ottawa's Transitway.

If done smartly, the guided busways could also be safer and yield better speeds in snowy conditions.

[someone123]

This doesn't really have a point but I found this transit terminal navigation help amusing. It's the better part of a 1 km walk, half uphill, to get between the far stops.


Source

[milomilo]

Originally Posted by someone123

This doesn't really have a point but I found this transit terminal navigation help amusing. It's the better part of a 1 km walk, half uphill, to get between the far stops.


Source

And this is the reason buses suck. By the time you've figured out which bus you need, where it is and when it leaves you might as well have just walked.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by milomilo

And this is the reason buses suck. By the time you've figured out which bus you need, where it is and when it leaves you might as well have just walked.

Halifax has a system designed around the idea of providing lots of coverage and minimizing transfers, so there are a lot of routes. This was fine when the region was smaller but it's starting to become unsustainable. The bus system is going to have to be overhauled (there are plans to do this) and something beyond regular bus service is going to have to be established for the major corridors (there aren't really sufficient plans for this).

The city is also particularly hard to navigate because it doesn't have a grid or numbered streets, nor do the buses follow any general direction. Some travel around in loops, etc. Tourists love this part of town, particularly where the 5 roads converge near the top:

[dleung]

How often do you hear such good news in transit/urban planning, where there are practically no dissidents? Not even one angry geriatric in the comments section!

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/brit...c.&utm_campaign=Shared+Web+Article+Links

[milomilo]

Originally Posted by someone123

Halifax has a system designed around the idea of providing lots of coverage and minimizing transfers, so there are a lot of routes. This was fine when the region was smaller but it's starting to become unsustainable. The bus system is going to have to be overhauled (there are plans to do this) and something beyond regular bus service is going to have to be established for the major corridors (there aren't really sufficient plans for this).

The city is also particularly hard to navigate because it doesn't have a grid or numbered streets, nor do the buses follow any general direction. Some travel around in loops, etc. Tourists love this part of town, particularly where the 5 roads converge near the top:

[img]http://imageshack.com/a/img923/5585/wwuI8Q.png[/mg]

Yeah. Part of the advantage of rail based systems is that they are so expensive there's never any justification for those meandering low ridership detours.

[ssiguy]

Originally Posted by Aylmer

Sure, but then it can't leave the guideway to drive on regular streets, which is the main advantage of a bus.

Of course they can in fact it's one of the main advantages guided busways have over standard rail. They can on and off to local streets anywhere which makes running express trains much easier and gets rid of the last mile problem which particularly plagues US systems.

Guided busways offer the high speed, safety, and controlled track of rail but offer the flexibility and cost savings of a bus system.

[milomilo]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

Of course they can in fact it's one of the main advantages guided busways have over standard rail. They can on and off to local streets anywhere which makes running express trains much easier and gets rid of the last mile problem which particularly plagues US systems.

Guided busways offer the high speed, safety, and controlled track of rail but offer the flexibility and cost savings of a bus system.

He was talking specifically about using longer (36m) vehicles that wouldn't be usable on roads.

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by someone123

This doesn't really have a point but I found this transit terminal navigation help amusing. It's the better part of a 1 km walk, half uphill, to get between the far stops.


Source

Wow, now I feel a lot better about Kingston's downtown terminal!

[someone123]

Here's commuter rail in Halifax, taken circa 1900. This service ran four times a day each way. There were also "dayliner" services that ran from Halifax to small towns around NS up until 1990 or so.


Source

It was probably faster to travel along this corridor (Bedford Highway) in 1900 than it is today.

An article about the construction of the modern railway corridor in the 1910's is here. It was a fairly major project in its day, much more ambitious than modern projects in the city: http://halifaxbloggers.ca/builthalifax/2015/03/south-end-rail-cut/