Metro Vancouver Bike & Pedestrian Discussion

[Klazu]

The Stanley Causeway bikeway went up fast! I still think that the railing style they choose looks ugly and "busy" when you drive with your car on the causeway, but it is an improvement and definitely more safe. At least until a car crashes through the rail and kills a pedestrian or cyclist.

[logan5]

Wouldn't the cabling stop a car? Or at least divert it away from the bike path.

[WBC]

Originally Posted by logan5

Wouldn't the cabling stop a car? Or at least divert it away from the bike path.

I think the much bigger concern is the cyclists falling into traffic then car jumping the curb onto the sidewalk/bike lane...

Looks nice otherwise...

[WarrenC12]

Cabling is the safe/cheap way to divert most cars who lose control. A similar system was used along stretches of the 99 in Surrey.

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by logan5

Wouldn't the cabling stop a car? Or at least divert it away from the bike path.

It's not the cabling that's the issue, it's the thin stanchions that support them. They're enough to stop a bike or pedestrian from falling into traffic, but I doubt they'd stand up to a car traveling at 60 to 70 km/h.

[jlousa]

Cabling is terrible and has been banned in many jurisdictions across Europe. As a motorcyclists I'd take my chances bouncing off a jersey barrier before getting cut into pieces by cables.

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by WBC

I think the much bigger concern is the cyclists falling into traffic then car jumping the curb onto the sidewalk/bike lane...

Looks nice otherwise...

Yup - initial accident was a cyclist falling into traffic in front of a bus.

So that's the problem the fix was meant to address - and the scope of the project.

If the intent was to prevent cars mounting the curb, then all sidewalks in the city would have barriers - especially around bus stops where people stand for extended periods and often seem to get hit.

[officedweller]

Open House March 8th about:

•Beatty Street (upgrade)
•Cambie Street northbound (new)
•Richards Street southbound (upgrade)
•Smithe Street westbound and Nelson Street eastbound (new)

March 8 open house: Learn more about the improvements and share your feedback

Drop by our open house to discuss the project with staff, ask questions, and share your feedback. Come by any time during the event.
•Date: Tuesday, March 8
•Time: 12:00 noon to 7:00pm
•Location: Sandman Hotel Vancouver City Centre, 180 West Georgia Street
*Please enter through Moxie's restaurant.

http://vancouver.ca/streets-transportation/downtown-bike-network-expansion.aspx

Open House boards here:

http://vancouver.ca/streets-transportation/downtown-bike-network-expansion-in-depth.aspx#openhouse

[urbancanadian]

^Thanks for the links. I didn't realize they were moving ahead this quickly, although it makes sense with summer construction season approaching.

These are the low-cost bike lanes that I'm sure we'll see more and more of as roads with existing painted lanes are due for repaving. The first ones along Richards and Union have proven to be a big success.

These are almost identical to the ones in NYC, which have also been very successful. They are all over the place now, and studies have shown that traffic in Manhattan (along these kinds of streets) has actually improved. Of course ours are all on pretty quiet roads anyway so I'm not sure we'll see much of a difference.

[urbancanadian]

That reminds me - I keep forgetting to post this - the bike lanes along SW Marine Drive are about to see a big improvement. Metro Vancouver and the COV are both going to be replacing sewer mains along Marine next year, so the City is piggybacking on this work to install AAA lanes.

There are already a set of shoulder bike lanes but they really — because the pavement width is completely uneven, some sections are pretty much just dirt, and other problems. Below is a cross-section of the road, stretching from Camosun Street/41st Avenue to one block short of Granville.

[Large Cat]

Originally Posted by officedweller

Open House March 8th about:

•Beatty Street (upgrade)
•Cambie Street northbound (new)
•Richards Street southbound (upgrade)
•Smithe Street westbound and Nelson Street eastbound (new)

March 8 open house: Learn more about the improvements and share your feedback

Drop by our open house to discuss the project with staff, ask questions, and share your feedback. Come by any time during the event.
•Date: Tuesday, March 8
•Time: 12:00 noon to 7:00pm
•Location: Sandman Hotel Vancouver City Centre, 180 West Georgia Street
*Please enter through Moxie's restaurant.

http://vancouver.ca/streets-transportation/downtown-bike-network-expansion.aspx

Open House boards here:

http://vancouver.ca/streets-transportation/downtown-bike-network-expansion-in-depth.aspx#openhouse

Thanks so much for the heads up. These upgrades look wonderful and the bare minimum that should be done with bike share coming soon. The only thing I see a problem with right now is the shared right turn lanes/bike lanes on Nelson, Smithe, and Beatty. I think traffic signal changes like they are planning at Smithe and Beatty should happen at every intersection the new protected lanes cross. Doesn't mean getting rid of right turns for cars (a la Dunsmuir), but rather keeping the physical separation while separating the car right turns and bicycle forward traffic temporally using the signal, as at a few places NB on Hornby. I just can't see cycling on Smithe and and having the 17 bus take the whole separated lane in front of you to turn onto Hamilton as being a AAA experience.

That said, I'm really excited about this.

[domusile]

Adding some sort of improved bike lane for the cambie street bridge seems like it would have to be next up with the addition of bike lanes on Nelson & Smithe.

Also turning right off of Nelson could be dangerous with cyclists being able to gather significant speed down the hill.

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by Large Cat

Thanks so much for the heads up. These upgrades look wonderful and the bare minimum that should be done with bike share coming soon. The only thing I see a problem with right now is the shared right turn lanes/bike lanes on Nelson, Smithe, and Beatty. I think traffic signal changes like they are planning at Smithe and Beatty should happen at every intersection the new protected lanes cross. Doesn't mean getting rid of right turns for cars (a la Dunsmuir), but rather keeping the physical separation while separating the car right turns and bicycle forward traffic temporally using the signal, as at a few places NB on Hornby. I just can't see cycling on Smithe and and having the 17 bus take the whole separated lane in front of you to turn onto Hamilton as being a AAA experience.

That said, I'm really excited about this.

I think they probably think that a right turn signal would back-up traffic on Nelson (or on Smithe)
Depends on how many right turning cars there are (as well as left turning which may have to wait for pedestrians).
On Smithe in front of the former Pivotal Building, there's extra road width.

Here's what the drawing shows as the "shared" right turn lane at Smithe & Hamilton.
There's still markings for the bike lane but the two uses seem to be crammed into a single lane width.


http://vancouver.ca/files/cov/downtown-bike-network-expansion-smithe-street.pdf

[Klazu]

Considering that the bikelane will now run down Nelson Street, I think that they made a mistake by connecting the Comox bikelane to Hornby at Hemlecken. Instead they should have had it run along Burrard and connect to Nelson directly. Now the result is a silly detour that nobody will be using.

[Large Cat]

Originally Posted by officedweller

I think they probably think that a right turn signal would back-up traffic on Nelson (or on Smithe)
Depends on how many right turning cars there are (as well as left turning which may have to wait for pedestrians).
On Smithe in front of the former Pivotal Building, there's extra road width.

Here's what the drawing shows as the "shared" right turn lane at Smithe & Hamilton.
There's still markings for the bike lane but the two uses seem to be crammed into a single lane width.


http://vancouver.ca/files/cov/downtown-bike-network-expansion-smithe-street.pdf

Yes, that drawing is exactly what concerns me. If the right turn lanes are being preserved because otherwise car traffic will back up (I too believe this is their reasoning), it's virtually guaranteed that using the new lanes will never be a AAA experience, unless you get off your bike before reaching any intersections. IMO they should go all out and either get rid of the right turn lanes or make one of the two remaining thru lanes the right turn lane on these streets, with alternating bike/right-turn signals.

[officedweller]

They wouldn't be able to eliminate any through lanes.
For the right hand lane, they're really just sacrificing curbside parking.

Smithe St. backs up every day around 5-6pm with traffic entering the downtown since the cars hit the traffic lights on the grid. It's stop and go between Beatty and Seymour (I walk past each day) and maybe to Burrard. Ideally, Robson would be a better cycling route into downtown because of less traffic and you clear a lot of the hill on Beatty.

Nelson doesn't back up so much, as the Cambie Bridge provides a buffer - and the back-up (stop and go) is moved to the south end of the bridge.

[Aroundtheworld]

Originally Posted by officedweller

Open House March 8th about:

•Beatty Street (upgrade)
•Cambie Street northbound (new)
•Richards Street southbound (upgrade)
•Smithe Street westbound and Nelson Street eastbound (new)

March 8 open house: Learn more about the improvements and share your feedback

Drop by our open house to discuss the project with staff, ask questions, and share your feedback. Come by any time during the event.
•Date: Tuesday, March 8
•Time: 12:00 noon to 7:00pm
•Location: Sandman Hotel Vancouver City Centre, 180 West Georgia Street
*Please enter through Moxie's restaurant.

http://vancouver.ca/streets-transportation/downtown-bike-network-expansion.aspx

Open House boards here:

http://vancouver.ca/streets-transportation/downtown-bike-network-expansion-in-depth.aspx#openhouse

This looks really awesome. I'm definitely going to attend.

By the way, my name is Lee and I'm newly active on this forum. It's nice to e-meet all of you and making this forum what it is. I recently graduated from planning at UBC and I'm working on a startup. I also volunteer for the BC Cycling Coalition.

[Klazu]

Welcome, Lee. Let us know afterwards what the discussion was like.

[SFUVancouver]

Welcome Lee/AroundtheWorld! It's great to have you join the never-ending, always interesting conversation that is the SkyScraperPage forum.

[deasine]

Good to see new members tuning in. Welcome.